I'm putting together a light weight all rounder rifle from varmint to deer slaying on a Remington Model 7 action. The majority of the time it will get used on Goat & Pig busting but get the odd bunny & deer thrown in from good measure at ranges from 0 to 400 metres. I draw the limit at shooting at anything outside that range. I've ordered a McMillan Edge hunter stock and have decided on a 21" fluted Lilja barrel modelled on the copy of a Sako Finnlite contour (I like short barrels)....but what calibre to go for?
I've used a 243 before & sometimes found it lacking on angling shots, the classic 250 savage looks like a mild mannered sledgehammer,
The soft spoken 260 Rem which has a few followers, 7mm08 - which has hoardes of followers or just skip the lot & chamber a 308 with barrel twist to suit 150 grainers or less?

I've got a 250 Savage in the Model 7. It feeds great and it is a good fit for the Model 7 action. I've shot a pig at about 150 yard with it using a 90gr Sierra and it performed well. I'm not sure I would have taken the same shot at 400 metres though. I'd probably want atleast a 25 Souper or 260 Remington if I were expecting to take distance shots like that at a pig.

Duckboat most shots pop up within 200m but last trip out had quite a few at 300m. A 400m shot would be only ever once in a blue moon & only if no wind, laser ranged & game unaware of hunter. I prefer to sneak in closer or pass up the shot rather than wound an animal.

As a reloader, a 250 AI or 6.5x47 would be top picks.

2nd, a 6BR will surprise you, my longest deer, 105amax, 400 yds, struggled on feet for 25 yds and dropped. And my last 243, 85 x bullet at 3100 mv (same you can push a 6BR), did a hog in at 240 yds, DRT!!!

SO, I'd pick a mild, flat, bug hole accurate round, and the first 2 above would get my vote, no issue feeding from mag as is. 6BR can feed or be made to feed, my 7BR custom Model 7 fed flawless 'as is' w/stock parts.

BTW, I understand your concern on 243...but I'd bet an 85 Barnes or 95 Ballistic Tip will give all the penetration, AND expansion for any angle shot, for a fast kill. That said, I will likely have another 243 in my future, had many in past, but in customs, a 6BR does 95% w/ 2/3 powder, and less blast/recoil, and GILT edged accuracy, LONG case life, better bbl life. Just cannot state how BIG a performer the little 6BR is, when proper bullets are used as it's a VERY shootable round, FEW rounds equal/better it's accuracy.

I think the 250 AI using 100 TSX/Ballistic Tips would be VERY similar in mannerism to 6BR, softer recoil than the 6.5x47.

Good luck, let us know what you do.

I have 3 250 Savage Rifles (2 X Savage 99's and one I built on a Rem 600) and a 257DGR none of the deer I have shot have ever moved more then 30 yards after being hit. All were shot between 150 and 250 yards.
If you want a factory round I really like the 250 Savage, if you are up for a wild cat in a 25 my perference is the 257DGR but the 250 AI and 25 Souper are all ballistic twins.
Also, IMO all have less recoil then the 243 Win or the 243 AI (which I have both of).
Good Hunting
Jeff in ND

.. 260 rem or 243 win By keeping with something standard it will be easier to always get brass ....
I like the paper ballistics of the 260 rem .... If mine is accurate it may replace everything I have under 9.3 caliber

Well .284 seems to be in order then . 100-180 grain reach out and touch something at distance or short range .

There are several choices of 7 MM pick one .

I know its boring but the .308 is a hell of a cartridge.
...tj3006

If you're a reloader, it would be hard to argue against the 25-284 as being a close to perfect short action varmint and medium game cartridge. Whatever the other non-SAUM/WSM short 25s can do, the 25-284 can do it faster.

Want to shoot varmints? Load a 75 grain VMax. Want to shoot deer? Load a 100 grain whatever.
Want to shoot black bear? Load a 110 grain AB.
Want to shoot elk? Load a 115 grain Partition or an appropriate Barnes X.

Remember that despite the hype, the 250-3000 has 8 grains less case capacity than the 243 and 20 grains less case capacity than the 284, so it is less of a sledgehammer than many claim it to be.

Jeff

In a light weight rifle it would be hard to pass on the classic 250 Savage. Want something with a little more horsepower? The 257 Roberts is only getting better with age.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
In a light weight rifle it would be hard to pass on the classic 250 Savage. Want something with a little more horsepower? The 257 Roberts is only getting better with age.

+1 on the Bob. 250 Savage isn't a bad choice either.

The 25's are pretty much perfect as a dual role varminter / med-game hunter.

My Remington Model Seven in 250 Savage with a 20" Krieger is handy, accurate, reliable and just the ticket for what you are describing. --wil--

.260 remington

Hands down the .257 Roberts AI. 2nd choice 25 Souper (.308 Winchester necked to .257 caliber).

257 Roberts AI

75 to 120 grain bullets

If you are committed to short action I would go with 250AI. I have both the 259/3000 and the 250AI. The 250/3000 is great to 275/300 yds. Beyond that you're falling off pretty quickly. The AI,on the other hand, has taken prairie dogs beyond 400yds.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!

Don't sell out the .260 yet! With 95 grain VMaxs it can be "funner than eatin beans" on varmints and with 140AMAXS it's a helluva long range whatever!! My 8.5 twist barrel does pretty well with either. And brass is pretty easy to find or make and VARGET is the powder for the little pills while H4831sc suffices in the bigger ones. GHD

one more vote for the 257 Roberts Ackley!

I have killed a Dall sheep, several caribou down to snowshoe bunnies with my 257 AI, loading 90 grn solids for coyote & fox now

quote:

The majority of the time it will get used on Goat & Pig busting but get the odd bunny & deer thrown in from good measure at ranges from 0 to 400 metres.

The standard .260 Remington fills the bill here nicely.

I'd consider the .257 to be about minimum for your needs. Even the 6mm Rem will not always do that well on piggies. .308 Win will also do well but may be bigger than you think you need.

Anything in between will do pretty well.

Re: the 6mm/pig....I did a DRT with an 85 Barnes X from a 243 carbine at a lowly 3100 MV at 240 yds, penetrated and killed wonderfully.

That is the one bullet I want when using a 6mm, and based on it's performance, would not hesitate to bust one again and will be my 6mm BR 'Hog Load' as it will nigh duplicate the speed above, or better it.

The 6mm has had a bad rap, 243s etc. but I think bullet choice and shot placement are the culprits. I have killed a fair share myself with them and find that bullet choice matters. As you get to 6.5-7mm, yes, 277 also, it is not as critical assuming you use standard weight, not lightweight pills.

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm hearing lots for the 250 savage, 257 roberts & the 260 remington in either the standard or improved form. I'm going to have to take a trip to the gunshop this weekend to see how common ammo & compoenetry, dies etc are available for these rounds & probably make my mind up from there.

Remember that all 3 of these cartridges; 250-3000, 257 Roberts, and 260 are not well represented in factory loaded ammo. If you are not a reloader, the 243 would probably be a better choice.

Of the 3, I think that I'd opt for the 260, since you can shoot 95 grain VMax for varmints, any of the 100 thru 130 grain bullets for medium game, and any stout 130+ grain bullet for tougher/bigger game.

Jeff

with 110gn TNT's for varmints and a whole boat load of deer bullets the 7mm08 gets my vote.

you know it makes sense..............

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
I know its boring but the .308 is a hell of a cartridge.
...tj3006

Very good advice!

Hey ford.......

I'm putting together a light weight all rounder rifle from varmint to deer slaying on a Remington Model 7 action.

quote:

I know its boring but the .308 is a hell of a cartridge.
...tj3006

Very good advice +3!

I enjoyed reading all the above but for my way of thinking you're making the decision on your "All Rounder" way-y-y too difficult.

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
Don't sell out the .260 yet! With 95 grain VMaxs it can be "funner than eatin beans" on varmints and with 140AMAXS it's a helluva long range whatever!! My 8.5 twist barrel does pretty well with either. And brass is pretty easy to find or make and VARGET is the powder for the little pills while H4831sc suffices in the bigger ones. GHD

My choice as well. The 308 is a fine round but not a varminter by any stretch. The 260 will do nicely w/ 85gr bullets @ 3300fps & kills big game well w/ 140gr @ 2700fps. Even in an ultra light rifle, there is no recoil.

Took at visit to the Gunshop with some interesting observations. A large selection of 308 on tap, a whole shelf full of 7mm08, a single pkt of 260 Remington and now the suprising thing about a dozen packets of 250 savage!!! So it looks like the savage isn't dead yet and the 260 remington is probably just a handloaders proposition.

under .30 cal. and for all-around, i can't imagine anything better than a roberts improved or a 6.5x 57 improved. i've had/have both and they are just like the old ".338-06 or .35 whelen" argument. maybe a .260 rem for the heavier side of the 6.5's, but then twist rate might lock you into one end or the other in the 6.5 bore. i'd stick with the 57mm. case and tollerate the slight loss of velocity with the heavier bullets when deer hunting.
i've got a 6.5x.270 improved now, that started life as a 6.5x.257roberts improved, had it rechambered to the 6.5x.270 imp and wish i didn't do that, the roberts case was really ideal for the 6.5 bore, liked just about anything i put in it and the .270 is finicky as hell and doesn't really like anything more than another. and to be honest, because the .270 cased round seems to be a bit pressure sensitive( somewhat unpredictable), i don't really see any great improvement over 57mm. cased round.

Will the model 7 action handle a Roberts length cartridge? I really like the 260 and I'll bet it would meet all your needs best.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Will the model 7 action handle a Roberts length cartridge? I really like the 260 and I'll bet it would meet all your needs best.

I doubt you'ld be happy w/ it for longer 140gr bullets. In the M7, a 260ai makes the most sense. You can still load 140gr to 2.90" & get useable powder cap.

fred,
i think the model 7 will handle the roberts with the base of the bullet stuffed down into the case as per (older)factory specs. not the way to go though, they suffer badly that way. a longer magazine will allow the bullet to be kept out of the case. you probably know... that's why the roberts never took off as it should have.

There is only one thing to do here. Average all the suggestions out and choose a 6.5x55 Swede. Done - easy!

quote:

Originally posted by merlinron:
fred,
i think the model 7 will handle the roberts with the base of the bullet stuffed down into the case as per (older)factory specs. not the way to go though, they suffer badly that way. a longer magazine will allow the bullet to be kept out of the case. you probably know... that's why the roberts never took off as it should have.

The "Bob" needs a standard length (Mauser length) action or a long action.

I've seen a Ruger M77 chambered in 257Roberts
it was a short action... I thought it was the dumbest thing Ive ever seen... but only by a slight ammount more than the IDENTICAL rifle next to it on the rack chambered in 6mmRem.

What really bugged me was that there was a 7x57 Ruger less than a foot away and that one was a LONG action...

How stupid do they gotta be?

Rem Model7?

Only two chamberings I'd want one in... 260Rem or 7mm-08


AD

Thanks for all your experience & advice guys.
The 260 Remington is getting lots of nods...but
I still have a sweet spot for the 250 Savage.
When I sat down at looked at the type of hunting I do & how frequently - I've decided to go real left field. I've ordered a Lilja 6mm, 3 groove, 1-8" twist barrel. Everyone loves mild super accurate rifles so I'll be looking at the 6mm BR Norma, 6xC or plain jane 243. The field reports from 6mm users have boosted my confidence with the obvious improvement in bullet quality when it comes to big game use.
The 85gr will be the go for varmints & go load up some stout 100 grainers like the partition for bigger animals.

IMHO, go 6BR Norma, if you then think you need more Horsepower, open it up, but with the accuracy, the round is flat deadly, I have lost nothing hit, everything except one animal was a DRT, the other, a doe at 400 yds, went 25 yds.

Factory loads are there if you want them, but proper planning, doubt you'd ever get in a jam w/o ammo.

243 always a good option, but might as well buy a factory rifle and save that bbl for a nice 6BR

Good luck, you cannot go wrong.

good choice fordnutter! i've used a rem mod700 in a 243 cal.for many years with outstanding results.reload myself,but factory loads will be damn good also. many deer has been tagged with it in MO. & WV. long shots up to 325 yds,drop like a rock with a neck or head shot. i use 85 grn.sierra hpbt with imr 4064 with 36.5 grns. weigh each rnd &neck size case only.shot lots of woodchucks out to 300 yds!!

WELL, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE HORSE RACES!
Not everyone picks the same horse.

I've sold most all of my .243s. When I sell the two I have left I won't be getting any more. For the combinations of uses you listed, I would prefer any one of the .250 Savage, .260 Remington, or .257 Roberts. There are times it is nice to be able to use at least 117 grain bullets.

At the same time, I currently have somewhere between 10 & 15 .308s, and I have never once used any of them as a varmint rifle. Don't want any of those relatively heavy slugs whining off across the ranches where I shoot P-dogs in western Montana.

Anyway, good fortune to you with your choice. Should be fun to give it some exercize, even if it isn't my personal choice.