Hi,

I rummaged around a bit at a friends place and found an old Winchester in 25-20. It´s a single shot and you load it by pulling the down on the triggerguard which opens the breech. Pretty nice shape and I can have it for a song.'

Any info? Ammo availability?

It's worth nothing, you can't get any ammo for it, and you are a lousy singer.

I can take care of it. What song is required?

Boha

a bit of caution here....this is a 25-20 single shot and the cartridge is not at all similar to the 25-20 WCF used in many of the M-92 lever guns.

I have six rounds in my shell collection and considered them collectors items until I found out that someone is actually making either brass or loaded ammo for it....sorry...don't remember who it was but some one here will remember and post it!!

Personally, I'd consider that rifle a collectors item...not sure of the value but it might be very high...like well over a grand...but not sure on this.

I've never seen one in my life...so it's quite a find.....you lucky guy!!!

Boha: I am a lousy singer and I´ll trade for your WR .318.

Vapodog: Didn´t know about the single shot 22-50. Do you have any idea of which model this could be?

Most likely a Model 1885.
Pete

Check the chamber or have a gunsmith do it for you. It came out of the factory .25-20 SS, but a fair number of those guns were converted to .25-20 WCF when the ammo dried up. Bad for the collector, good for the shooter who happens into one.

Check with Huntington's for brass, dies, etc. Cast bullets would be friendlier for bore, and it should be a natural cast bullet shooter.

I found some pics on the 1885 and I think that´s the one. The gun has been lying around unused since God knows when so it´s probably original in caliber. Shape is OK, not mint but not trash either. Sr nr is 685XX if that helps anyone.

Someone made a run of 25-20 SS ammo recently....

not sure who it was...try posting in the single shot forum to see if someone knows who it was...Bell?...Qual cart?...can't remember...

It wasn't one of the big guys like Winchester, Remington, Norma etc...and not Hornady either.

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
I found some pics on the 1885 and I think that´s the one. The gun has been lying around unused since God knows when so it´s probably original in caliber. Shape is OK, not mint but not trash either. Sr nr is 685XX if that helps anyone.

Looks like about 1893.
BTW those things were made in many different calibers. The highwall is very robust and strong design.
Highwall 1885 dates

http://www.savage99.com/winchester1885_dates.htm

I have a 93 Marlin in 25/20... I picked up some winchester brass for it, last year, at Sportsman's Warehouse for pretty cheap....

Speer makes a 75 grain HP for it, and several companies are supposed to make 60 grain HPs for it...

the old 86 grains bullets are gone...

If I had access to a rifle like that, for a low price, I'd snatch it up, even if I was never able to shoot it.. it is a piece of history...

It has to be especially rare in places like Finland!

Cheers and merry christmas to all..

seafire

Both B.E.L.L. and Bertram made new 25-20 SS brass. Not sure where you can get it now. Be careful, it IS different than the later 25-20 WCF.

Ray

This is a black-powder round right? I tried looking for reloading dies but so far no luck, did find som Bertram brass though.

Oh I´m buying it, be sure iof that.

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
This is a black-powder round right?

yes....but many of them were converted to smokeless loadings such as the 25-20 WCF. I'm sure there's a smokless powder you can use if someone has experience with it.

I found some loading data.....



68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4227 8.5 1,430
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4227 9.0 1,546
68 Lyman 257420GC Alliant RL-7 10.0 1,300
Remarks: 1 to 1 1/2 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC Hodgdon H-110 8.0 1,350
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC Hodgdon H-110 9.0 1,498
68 Lyman 257420GC Alliant 2400 8.0 1,600
Remarks: maximum/1 1/4 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4198 9.0 1,350
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4198 9.5 1,425
Remarks: 1 1/4 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC Winchester W-680 9.0 1,200
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR SR-4759 8.0 1,350
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR SR-4759 9.0 1,700
90 Lyman 257464GC Alliant 2400 8.0 1,650
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4227 8.0 1,300
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4227 8.5 1,385
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4227 9.0 1,450
Remarks: 3 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC Alliant RL-7 10.0 1,290
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC Alliant RL-7 11.0 1,500
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR SR-4759 7.0 1,238
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR SR-4759 8.0 1,450
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4198 10.0 1,440
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4198 10.5 1,550

60 Hornady flatnose Alliant 2400 8.0 1,477
60 Hornady flatnose Alliant 2400 9.0 1,640
Remarks: OK
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4227 9.0 1,325
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4227 10.0 1,517
60 Hornady flatnose Alliant RL-7 12.0 1,301
60 Hornady flatnose Alliant RL-7 13.0 1,503
Remarks: 2 inches
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4198 11.0 1,500
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4198 12.0 1,560
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4198 13.0 1,687
Remarks: OK/3 inches
60 Hornady flatnose Winchester W-680 10.0 1,306
60 Hornady flatnose Winchester W-680 11.0 1,734
Remarks: erratic/8 inches
60 Hornady flatnose Hodgdon H-110 9.0 1,550

The 25-20 SS was originally a black powder cartridge. But you can also find later cartridges that were loaded with the semi-smokless powder and, later still, smokless loads with jacketed bullets.

The 25-20 SS is probably most famous for being the parent case for the 22-20-55 Harwood Hornet and later the 22-3000 Lovell. Just about all 25-20 SS brass was used up in forming these two wildcats and in the 1930s Griffen & Howe contracted with Winchester to produce a run of brass headstamped 22-3000. All of the 25-20 SS and 22-3000 stuff are now collectors items.

There's your history lesson for today.

Ray

This is getting interesting and I´m really looking forward to getting the rifle and scrounging around for some components. Can cases be formed from some existing brass?

cewe

I don't think cases can be formed from anything else. But with new modern stuff available, why try it?

Ray

Looks like Bell and Bertram have brass available so that shouldn´t be a problem. Dies can probably be special ordered from RCBS...

So there is a Santa anyway!

25/20 SS Dies can be purchased here: www.CH4D.com . Brass is available from Bertram and Jamesson ( formerly Bell)

Almost forgot, a Special shell holder is required. You can get it from CH also.

Thanks for the tip Kurt, I´ll order once I have the gun in my safe!

I guess Bell brass is preferable over Bertram.

The drawing above shows a rim diameter of .378 but all the brass I have (including BELL and Bertram) measures between .371 and .375 so I was able to use a #10 shell holder which is the same one for the 222. So, you might save a few bucks by getting the brass first and then see if you need a special shell holder.

Ray

As the brass probably won´t be easy to come by in Finland or Scandinavia I might as well get the shellholder too and avoid extra shipping costs. There might be some plkaces in Germany that carry this cal so I´ll have to check that first.

cewe,

You need this website:

Buffalo Arms

And if the link doesn't work:

www.buffaloarms.com

copy and paste into your browser.

They are your new best friend. They have brass, dies, bullets, molds, etc.

Enjoy.

P.S. you really may want to do a chamber cast and make SURE you have a 25-20 Single Shot. It was very common to convert them to shoot the cheaper ammo. Safe is better than sorry.

Thanks for the tip! I´ll have the gun checked with my smith before getting myself into trouble...

I checked the gun today and it´s a low wall.