Hi folks,

I have a customer that thinks he wants a 17 Remington. Does anyone have something they may want to sell? Please let me know what you may have that might tickle his fancy.

Thanks,

Gordon

I don't know if your customer has any experience with the 17 Remington (any 17 for that matter) but those little guys can be a pain in the butt. He can look forward to difficult barrel cleaning, reloading can be tedious if you have big fingers, and altitude and temperature sensitivity can be a problem.

My 17 has produced speeds around 4600 fps+ to vaporizing before the bullet hit a 100 yard target because of altitude or temperature changes. It's a very interesting round and I like it but (IMHO) the 204 Ruger is easier to get along with. Both rounds well demolition prairie dogs and leave little entree holes in coyotes.

Hi Mick,
My customer has a 17 HMR and likes it very much. You know how it is, got an itch for something different. Thanks for the information.

quote:

I don't know if your customer has any experience with the 17 Remington (any 17 for that matter) but those little guys can be a pain in the butt. He can look forward to difficult barrel cleaning, reloading can be tedious if you have big fingers, and altitude and temperature sensitivity can be a problem.

One of my local gun makers had two twin 17 Remingtons that he had custom built years ago and had decided to sell them as he didn't shoot them much. I was excited and thought that I needed at least one of them. His honest advice followed a lot of what has been said above. I didn't buy them. They were beautiful little rifles, however. I currently shoot a 17WSM, but that is a completely different animal than the 17 Remington.

I've owned and shot 17 caliber rifles for 45 years. I love this caliber.
.17 Ackley Bee got me started.
.17-222
.17 Remington
.17 Mach IV

Groups don't always look impressive because the holes are so small.

I've killed lots of varmints and coyotes with them.

I also have several rimfires:
17HM2
17HMR
17WSM

My Cooper 17 Mach IV took a bit of load development before finding a good load. Other than that I think my guns shoot good.
My friend shoots a .17 Hornet and loves it.
I like them and tell others to give them a try.

.17 cal's are whole different world.

Gotta learn to love 'em is the main part.

There's more than 50 various .17's out there.

I have two: a NEF and Cooper, both chambered
the same for a necked down 5.7 case.

9.5gr 1680, 20 gr v'max=3460. Sure does the
JOB on p/dogs to 250yds or so. Quiet too.

George

I toyed with the idea of some kind of a 17 but settled on building a couple 20 Practicals. One on a 700 rem with a Proof Research barrel shooting BIB bullets and my newest on on a Howa mini with a Douglas, hopefully to shoot 40 Ballistic Tips. I fired and cleaned 3x last Saturday but without the scope or stock. It's all put together now (mounted the scope last night) and I'll be testing some loads on Saturday. A 40 grain bullet at 3800 fps is pretty sexy to me!

Okay, that was off-track and way too much info.
Zeke

A 17 Remington is no more difficult to clean or load for than any other caliber. And they don't foul any worse than any other caliber. A good barrel will have minimal fouling and bad barrel, in any caliber will foul badly.

When I had my first 17 Remington I bought into the whole "got to keep it clean" snake oil sales pitch and cleaned it religiously after every 50 rounds. After spending more time cleaning than shooting on a ground squirrel expedition I decided to conduct a test. I shot a group just before we commenced the daily matter splatter. It shot just over a half inch group, just under 5/8 inch. Pretty normal for that rifle. I spend the whole day shooting with it and a couple of 22 centerfires. I used the 17 more than the 22s and ended up shooting 400 rounds with out cleaning. At the end of the day I shot another group. It shot just over a 1/2 inch and just under 5/8". Pretty normal for that rifle. I gave up cleaning it with any regularity after that and it always shot just over 1/2 inch groups.

My current 17 is a left handed mini Mauser with a PacNor barrel. It seems to want to shoot in the 5/8 to 3/4" range but I'm not done trying loads for it yet. It doesn't act like it wants to foul much so I won't be cleaning it with any regularity either.

Yes the 17 caliber bullets are a bit difficult to handle for reloaders. I bought an RCBS competition dies set many years ago and have added the guides and seating stems for 17, 20, 6mm, and 25 caliber to the seating die.. Makes seating little bullets a breeze.

Don't let the tired old fouling myths dissuade your friend from a 17. It is, IMHO, the finest fur round ever developed. And a joy to shoot on varmints.

Here's a picture of the RCBS seating die with the 22, 17 and 6mm guides and stems.

Glad to see an interest in 17 and 20 caliber rifles. I started on a 17-222 back in gunsmith school in 1961. Back then bullets were a big problem , Sisk made a few which were very bad quality and it never did group very well. It could have been the barrel as students made the barrel on Bill Prators Machines at his home. Bill taught us how to make barrels and some of his students went on to become well know. Prator was Ackley's barrel man before the school started in TSJC in 1947.

My first one shot so bad that I changed it to a 222 rem. I made a few custom 17's on Sako action in 17-221 about 1965 and the Walker bullets became available, that is when we started getting good groups. Hornady started making bullets around this time also. Ed Shilen came by our shop in Ft Worth and he moved his barrel making machines to Texas. I asked Ed when he was going to make the 17 barrels and he said never. Within 2 or 3 months he was making the 17's. I gave my last 17 Rem on a mini Mauser to my son.

The article on Stockmaker Show and Tell is a 20 cal. Ruger with a Shilen barrel , 1-12 #2 size weight. It shoots about 3/8 inch and it is the flatest shooting rifle out to 500 yds.
Go for the 20 cal and you will be happy. Cleaning these small calibers are not a problem with the one piece rods. Use a drop tube to load powder into the small cases. I made my own loading tools and dies.

I never want another one, they are a royal pain in the a$$ IMO, new cleaning rods, brushes, patches, and everything else, a ight breeze will blow a bullet to kingdom come as much as 3 ft. in the Snake River Canyon updrafts, the copper foul like crazy and accuracy goes south in a hurry and I blew several bullets up on coyotes and Javalina and a close friend wounded a couple of deer later recovered on a deer cull in Texas..He gave it back to me and I sold it pronto..Just one problem after another including reloading..I;ll stick with a 222 or a hornet any day..

Just my two bits and opinion, what someone else thinks of the round is up to them..but it has not set the world on fire and for those reasons..Some can justify its use of course and good on um....

I have had a 17 love affair off and on for years. I have tested them side by side with a .223 for wind drift, 25 grn against 50 grn.
The difference is not measurable because of not knowing if the wind gusts are the same speed or not. Either way, the wind drift is not enough different to choose one over the other.
More 17's were sold in Australia then anywhere else when released. There were fellows that bought new trucks with the money from fox pelts shot with their 17's. I watched my friend shoot 4 big roos with 4 shots for dog food in less then 30 seconds. Stretch the range to much, and you loose the magic of a 17, but until you cross that 300 yds or so, they are great fun.

I have several 17 caliber rifles, and love them.

One just have the right equipment for them to be maintained, just like any other caliber.

I made my reloader as a kit to go into the motorhome. I can reload about 40 round per hr. for 17 or 20 cal. rounds

There is a powder measure, a powder holder, balance beam with hand filed weights down to 1/10 gr, straight line bullet seater, block that will hold small caliber up to 375 HH, case deburing and primer pocket reamer, and the hand press similar to Charles Newton made round 1908. Neck size only and I have dies up to the 375 HH case. I have shot groups with ammo made with this set up down to 5/16 in. @ 100 yds. Some people tell me you can't make accurate ammo. My tool was made in 1989.

If you want a project to keep you busy during this conv 19 try making something different. Large picturesto see details

I have two, neither for sale. They are terrific on PDs and work well on coyotes, if you can get broadside or frontal shot. I’ve shot and reloaded for them for 30 plus years. Much of the negative comments about barrel fouling, hard to reload etc are old info and or are statements by those that read about it in some gun rag, or by people that have not used them.
If used for what it’s appropriate and if you’re not searching for 4700 FPS, it’s a very good cartridge.

Nice equipment Les.

You bring back to mind my(through my departed friend) Martini 17AB that was built in 1968, in your and Lou W's old shop in Ft. Worth.

Then there's the fifty-some-odd 17's and 20's remaining.......

Always had a "thing" for them.

Friend Of The 17.....and 20
Kevin

I built quite a few 17 Remington AR15’s for coyote hunters years ago. They shot really well and were well received. Recently when requested I’ve steered customers towards a straight 17-223 as component available has been so spotty. All that’s needed is a Hornady die set and a 20 cal neck size diefor forming. Load and shoot after that with similar performance the the Remington.

Howdy Matt,

I'm one of your customers from the Coyotegods boards. RRA AR-17 with an 18" Lothar Walther bbl. Still shoots sub-moa. I don't get it out to exercise like I used to. I agree with your suggestion, either a 17-223 or .17 tactical, which is probably the same thing. That L-W bbl hardly copper fouls, but she is still a dirty gas gun. A piston upper would be nice. Hope you are doing well.

Gary

I made a 17 Rem on a Krieger barrel on an AR15 and the cartridge was too long for the magazine clip. If I made another one it would be the 17 Tech. and you can set the bullets out better to fit the barrel throat. I had to set the 39 gr bullets too deep into the case to feed thru and original box. The 17-223 could be a good one to use and the ejector will send the cases so you don't have to look for them. I bought a cartridge catcher, but never used it before selling the rifle.

Here is my 17 Rem on a mini Mauser action back in 1986. This was the rifle I had when I went back to TSJC in 1992 when James Anderson was in 3 rd school. He used my design as a basic model to make some very nice classic after he finished school. If someone would like a similar rifle contact James he is in SD.

Beautiful rifle!