In checking out various .223 rifles, I'm stuck deciding exactly how I am going to use it.
On one side, I like handy lightweight carbines - (e.g. Kel-Tec SU16 or CA friendly AR-15)
On the other I like the accuracy and simplicity of a hunting type bolt action (e.g. Savage 10)
I've settled on the .223 because of it's affordable, recoil friendly and has lots of options available for ammo. While most of my shooting will likely be done with 55 gr fodder, I really want to be able to reach out and touch things, so I am very interested in heavy .22's (75, 68 gr etc.). Now I understand the limitations of the cartridge, and that real long range performance comes from something with more horsepower, but I'm not an accuracy nut either; 300yards is a long shot for me.

How do short barreled carbines handle the long range work? What do those of you with experience with semi-autos and heavy bullets have to say? Is accuracy with stubby semi's possible or do I invest in something bigger than a yardstick and plop some big glass on it?
Thank you for your feedback

If you are going to try and shoot 75, or even 68 & 69 grain match bullets, then you will have to purchase a Savage or a Stevens in 223, as they are the only ones with a one in 9 twist that I know of.. you need a one in 9 twist to stablize those bullet weights...

But the 63 grain Sierra SMP, the 70 grain SMP Speer, the 53 grain Barnes and the 60 grain Nosler Partition make the 223 a deer rifle with the regular one in 12 twist everyone else uses..

I think the pick of the litter is the 70 grain Speer SMP... with a dose of 28 grains of H 380, It will give you an MV of 2900 to 3000 fps... in a 22 inch barrel..place 'em in the right spot and they will do their job...

cheers
seafire

For what you are describing take a look at a good bolt gun. You will never be happy with a semi except maybe a very tricked out MR15 heavy barreled carbine...but you are probably talking a grand to do it right and make it shoot right.

If it was my money I would look at the Remington 700 LV-SF (Light Varmint-Stainless Fluted) I have yet to shoot one but have handled them and they have great balance. 22" barrel and I believe 1/10 twist.

As to twist and heavy bullets, my current .223 bolt gun is a Remington M600 Mohawk 18.5" barrel that was a rechamber from .222. It is good for .4MOA all day long with its 1/12 rifling and Sierra 63 grain semi-pointed bullets. It will shoot the 69 grain Sierra BTs at .75 MOA..no great loss.

26 grains of WW748 powder/WW SR primer/Federal Case seems to be the magic combination. Just seat any bullet so that the base of the bullet is even with the bottom of the case neck and it shoots not just well but very very well.

Bob

PS...for the ranges you are talking about you don't need real big glass... 10 power will more than do. In 1986 I hunted with a friend shooting P-Dogs in Wyoming. He had no trouble with shots out to 350 yards with his Remington 700V in .223 using the original Nosler 50 grain Expanders. The holes coming out the backs of those dogs were bigger than the ones on mine hit with a .22-250 with 50 grain Solid Base standard bullets. His scope was only a Leupold 8 power..he now has a 10... His sight in groups at 300 yards were in the 2" range.

That .223 Mohawk is going to wear a 4.5-14 or 3.5-10 Leupold with AO once I get it in the new stock.

Bob

Thanks for the replies!
Seafire, that 70 gr Speer SMP really looks great, I had seen the Sierra 63, but that 70 gr really looks like a blast! (not to get the '.22 cal for deer' debate going again, but I know that medicine would do just fine where I roam)
I was out today and got to handle a few bolt guns, and to my surprise, I really got attached to a Weatherby Vanguard it just really felt 'right' - a bit heavy but definitely a consideration. It does have a 1-12" twist, but with some of those SMP's that might not be a bad thing... decisions decisions!

300yds isn't long range, and an AR15 with a 16" barrel and 55 to 68 gr can handle that easily. Just get a 1 in 9 twist

Deer..a friend in Texas bought a Winchester Ranger M70 a few years ago at Walmart. He uses the Winchester 64 grain PowerPoint that was made just for deer...between he, his wife and 2 kids they have over 15 deer. All have been one shot drops. 35-150 yard shots including one very large 8 point. All dropped in their tracks except for one doe that ran 30 yards. The only non shoot through was the big buck...hit in the shoulder the bullet and jacket were found just about to exit the other side.

Good bullet, good placement..dead deer. They take no "iffy" shots however. All are from stands using a good rest.

Bob

the cz varmint comes with a 1in 9 twist so does the remington 700 pss also available is remington custom shop in 1in7

I'm not going to mention names but in looking at semi-autos (at the only local place that stocks them) the most affordable is the Kel-Tec @ $699, the Mini-14 goes for $759 and the Carbon-15 CA version is $1050 . . . A standard Savage rifle in blue/polymer starts at $359, Howa for $399 - I think my decision has been made by price point alone (and have you seen that Choate folding sniper stock?! Sexy!!!)

BP:

NO flies at all on the HOWA or Weatherby Vanguard...

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
He uses the Winchester 64 grain PowerPoint that was made just for deer...between he, his wife and 2 kids they have over 15 deer.
Good bullet, good placement..dead deer. They take no "iffy" shots however. All are from stands using a good rest.Bob

A shooting buddy of mine gave me a hand full of those 64gr Win.PPs. I loaded them a good bit under max. and shot a 1" 8 shot group at 100 yards, with a new Stevens mod. 200 in .223. What a pleasant surprise. roger