While this subject goes back and forth about the lethality and ethics of 22 centerfire use on deer.... I wanted to bring up some possibilities that have been around along time and are often over looked...

for one in 14 or one in 12 twist rifles...
be they 223s, 222s, 22.250s or 220 Swifts...

The champ, is the the 70 grain Speer SMP.. its design and shape let it stabilize just fine in these barrels.. its shape and construction also make it a fine deer bullet.. it is a little heavy to be explosive on varmints...it will penetrate well, even at low velocity...

the next choice that has been around for a long time.. the 63 grain Sierra.. also of the Semi Pointed Design...

do a little penetration tests on your own, with either of these bullets.. they may surprise you on what you find out...even at lower velocities...

While I haven't used the newer Barnes TSX, I have used the older X Bullets.. even the lowly 45 grain X bullet is a very reliable deer bullet.. unless we are talking HUGE norhern whitetail, that hit 250 lbs or more...then shot placement takes over...

I have been impressed with what I have seen on the 75 grain A Max and now the new 80 grain A Max.. the 75s will stabilize in a one in 9 twist, which would make a Stevens 200 and the 75 grain A max a cheap and highly effective deer rig..

The 80 grain A Max, will stabilize in a one in 8 twist easily.. and does a good job in a one in 9 twist in my Savage 12 BVSS.. for accuracy..

I looked at the 22 Texas Trophy Hunter, but a little research, found it gave me nothing I could not obtain with a 22.250 with a fast twist, which I already had......

But based on Montero's thread, I thought I'd bring this one up...

but still a 70 grain Speer and any of the 22 caliber centerfires, from 222 on up.. load it up and go deer hunting...

Nice analysis, as usual. You missed one of my favorites, the Winchester 64 grain powerpoint. It let's the air out of whitetails quite neatly (at least at 223 velocities) and it's inexpensive to boot. Good hunting!

Shot placement takes over whether a small deer or a huge one and whether a .22 or a super honkin magnum. A bad shot is a bad shot and results will be bad even with a premium bullet and a shoulder busting magnum. I have use 55 grain Winchester bulk packed(cheap bullet)and if they are placed right,it lets the air out of them and you better have a sharp knife as you have a deer to dress. My experience with .22 centerfires on deer are with Texas whitetails which do run smaller but I'm talking some pretty nice bucks in the mix.

I like the 60 grain Partition and have had good success with the 64 grain PowerPoints. A shot into or through the pleural cavity with either bullet will result in venison for the freezer.

Jeff

ive used the 223 with the sierra 55 gameking on 3 large montana bucks. most were inside 150yds. i recoved 2 bullets from 2 of the deer. nice expanded slugs. one weighed 53 grs and the other 47 grs(it clipped the shoulder pretty good and did break a major bone) but they did hold together very well. mind you these deer were no moving, close and i could pick my shots but the sierra did its job quite well.

What about the Barnes TSX 75 grain or Swift Scirocco 75 grain in 22 caliber?

quote:

I looked at the 22 Texas Trophy Hunter, but a little research, found it gave me nothing I could not obtain with a 22.250 with a fast twist, which I already had...

Seafire: I'm not pushing the 224TTH. Never had one and never will. And I agree with your assessment of the 70gr Speer. Shot a few does with it from a 22-250 and it worked fine on broadside lung shots. Shot a coyote with it in a 225Win, and he ran off..found him the next day with the help of buzzards.

Anyway, my point is that I don't quite understand your comment, quoted above. According to RCBS, the 22-250 case has a capacity of 45gr, while the 6MM rem case (parent of the 224TTH) has a capacity of 55gr. Surely a case with 20% more capacity will do SOMETHING that the smaller case will not do. Perhaps higher velocity, but shorter barrel life?

Olarmy,

The 22 TTh, does hold more powder, but like other overbore cartridges, a lot of extra powder doesn't gain a lot in velocity.. it has hit a point of diminishing returns.. just like the 257 Weatherby, vs the 25/06....

As far as your coyote taking off hit with the 70 grain Speer.. I wouldn't doubt it.. I am sure the bullet never opened up.. and went thru like an FMJ.. it is too tough a bullet for that small of game..back to why I swear by it as a good deer and antelope bullet...

Mr. Rigby

No arguments about the Barnes TSX or the Scirrocco.. although I have no experience with the TSX personally.. I have viewed their results... the Scirrocco.. I have zero experience with it and the price of it, will make me avoid having any experience with it since bullets that are efficient are more readily available and competent enough for the job at hand...

For the other folks...

there are times when most of the other mentioned bullets will do a fine job, but I mentioned my favorites, as I think they are alittle better than the standard 55 and 60 grainers...

I leave the 60 grain partition out, because even tho the bullet is competent, it seems to be hard to find a rifle that will shoot it very accurately....

As far as the 64 grain Winchester, I am sure it will work just fine.. I have a box I picked up a long time ago, but have never used... they are just not readily available locally, so I don't use them, when I use the 70 grain Speer and the 63 grain Sierra instead... .NO slam on the bullet whatsoever...

Seafire, I'm surprised at you!!! Surely you know that someone will lecture you on the use of .224 caliber bullets on deer!!!!!

You mentioned that you had seen some of the results of the TSX bullets on deer in your comment. What was your observations with that bullet? My wife has at last taken an interest in big game hunting and has agreed to accompany me this fall for deer here in Idaho. I've given some thought to using that TSX 45 grainer under a 22-250 or .223 for her and would like to have your input, as always your experience seems to add to these pages. Thanks again and be braced for the coming lecture!!!!!

Seafire,
For the last several seasons I have been using the very capable 22/250 Ackley Improved @3,998 and Sierra's #1360 55gr. spitzer. I suffered a neck injury in 03 and don't like or tolerate recoil.
I hunt(shoot) under controlled conditions(standing) and seldom do they take a step and if they do it's not very far. Never had an exit but the lungs are in liquid form.
This bullet flat gets the job done in the open but I wouldn't recommend it in brushy cover.

Stepchild

Yep, I've had trouble getting the 60 gr NPT to shoot in my 1:9 223 boltgun. It's sub-MOA with a several 60-69 gr bullets but 2-3 inches is the norm with the Noslers. Anyway, we know the big bottleneck rounds work fine on deer with the right bullet and proper placement. Has anyone here tried the 45 gr XLC in the 22 Hornet on deer or deer-sized game?

quote:

I leave the 60 grain partition out, because even tho the bullet is competent, it seems to be hard to find a rifle that will shoot it very accurately

I started trying to get this bullet to group in 2004 in my swift. Any data I used resulted in patterns and one grumpy fellow sitting at the bench. I went out on a limb a bit and switched to a powder that while unconventional provided better results but I had to push that bullet faster than I felt comfortable with. This year I have been playing with the 53 tsx and it has shot pretty good groups with a couple of different combo's. I have no doubt that it will kill even one of these big whitetail's round here with proper shot placement.

Even though .224's are legal here, I am sticking with .264 and up for my deer hunting as I very rarely get that nice broadside shot that I would need for the Swift.

Would I like to smoke a good buck with my swift? "Hell yeah" Am I consistant enough to do it? Well the jury is still out on that one!

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Seafire, I'm surprised at you!!! Surely you know that someone will lecture you on the use of .224 caliber bullets on deer!!!!!

You mentioned that you had seen some of the results of the TSX bullets on deer in your comment. What was your observations with that bullet? My wife has at last taken an interest in big game hunting and has agreed to accompany me this fall for deer here in Idaho. I've given some thought to using that TSX 45 grainer under a 22-250 or .223 for her and would like to have your input, as always your experience seems to add to these pages. Thanks again and be braced for the coming lecture!!!!!

I find the TSX to be an excellent designed bullet, and this is coming from someone who is normally not a Barnes fan, but I have to give them credit where credit is due...

A 45 grain TSX in a 22/250 or 223, would be no problem for a black tail, or antelope.. I know you have some good sized whitetails over in Idaho there.. there size would undermine my recommendation for someone not good at shot placement.. I personally wouldn't hesitate to use one.. but shot placement would have to become a little more critical.. even tho it is only 8 grains difference.. I'd move up to the 53 grainer.. but then, being logical, for an 8 grain difference, I think most of that reservation is all in my head.....

As mentioned above about a 220 Swift.. a guy I know in town here, who doesn't hunt anymore, but shoots at the range a lot.. and is 55, my age...has this Model 54 Winchester, chambered in 220 Swift tht was bought new in 1954 and sports an old steel tube Weaver scope on it, in 6 power I believe....

That particular rifle, has a little local legends floating around on how his dad, used it for plenty of deer, and also quite a few elk have fallen to it...

This rifle is in beautiful shape also, looks as good as some of my 10 yr old Model 70s....I am green with envy every time I see it.. but wouldn't want to purchase it, as it has been in that family since 1941, when it was bought new...

Stepchild

A 4000 fps, 55 grain Sierra is going to be a very lethal round. I remember hunting in Wisconsin years ago, where a guy in our party, was using Remington's 30/06 Accelerator line with the 55 grain Bullet at 4000 fps... he swore it being the most lethal deer round he had ever seen... and his other rifle was a 35 Whelen....

You have to make no apology to anyone with a set up like that.. and good luck with it this season to boot!

seafire,
Your gut feeling ... has the 22cals with premiums like the TSX and heavies in the 70gr range pushed by a large case (22/250, 220Swift etc...) started to push into the 6mm territory? Are they perhaps "better" allrounders for varmints through to light bigger game? Still a lot of animals in the goat, pig, wild dog class etc being taken by 22cals in Australia!
Cheers...
Con

Seafire, I agree with most of your posts and comments.

However, although I have never used the 224TTH, I have used other cases of similar capacity, and found that diminishing returns only seems to apply to the larger cases in .224 cal if you are using bullet weights of about 55 grains and less.

My first .224 Clark (22/257Roberts imp) had a case capacity of 63.8 grains after being fireformed from a 22/257 Roberts. (57.3 grains) The 224TTH would have a similar capacity to the 22/257Roberts.

The .224 Clark had a 25.2 inch 10 twist barrel and achieved 3,930 fps with the Sierra 69 grain MK, using 54.5 grains IMR 7828. (also 54.5 Win785)

After 1600 shots I had the barrel on the .224 Clark set back and rechambered to the 22/250RCBS (28), and now with the same bullet, 46.0 grains of Win WMR, or 44.0 grains of Re 22 produced 3,410- 3430 fps.

I am still using the 22/250 RCBS, and it almost routinely produces sub 0.5 moa accuracy, but I do believe that the loss of 500+ fps is not insignificant for the relative amounts of powder being used in each case.

I am currently testing my 2nd .224 Clark which is built on a Rem700LA, Krieger 26 inch 6.5 twist barrel, and Boyds Boys stock. Some of my early chrono data to date using Win 257R Cases, Rem 9/12M primer and Little 100 grain Soldered Core Hollow Point Boat Tail Loaded length 3.105:

55.0 grains H870 - 3089 fps
56.0 grains H870 - 3158 fps
57.0 grains H870 - 3212 fps (Near Max/Max?)

55.0 grains AR2218 (H50BMG) - 3014
56.0 grains AR2218 (H50BMG) - 3101 (Mild press)

49.0 grains AR2225 (HRetumbo) - 2991
50.0 grains AR2225 (HRetumbo) - 3091
51.0 grains AR2225 (HRetumbo) - 3144 (Above Max)

I still have some more chronographing and accuracy testing to do, but am becoming increasingly confident that this rifle will be good on medium game here in Oz. Time will tell. Brian.

My H&R ultra varmint in 223 shoots 70 gr speer semi spitzers over 22 gr h322 very well, I plan on taking a doe with it this winter and am very exited about taking a deer with a .224 single shot.

Does anyone use or are familiar with the 5.6x50R?

I was wondering how case capacity compares to the 22-250? I had read it is like a 222 Rem Mag
but didn't know how it (222 Mag) compares to the 22-250 either.

Thinking of building up a single shot in one next year. I would like for varmints to small game.

seafire, any blue Dot loads for the 5.6x50R?
or rough ideas of what to expect? Not looking to use it as a max velocity gun.I am hoping it's a bit less (power,capacity,velocity) than a 22-250.

Allen

AllenBosely, The 5.6x50 is .118 inches longer than the .222 magnum (1.850), and according to an old Hornady manual drives a 55 grain bullet at up to 3,300 fps. This is about 400 fps slower than what a 22/250 can achieve.

My gunsmith has been using the case for FClass shooting and winning matches out to 800 yards using the 80 grain Sierra MK.

RWS seem to be the main brass manufacturer, and according to my gunsmith the brass is thick, strong, but expensive.

Due to the thick brass, the case capacity is only marginally greater than the 222 magnum case which has a capacity of about 32.5 grains.
Hope that is of some help. Brian.

The 5.6x50R is closer to a .223 than a
22-250.
In terms of power,capacity and then muzzle blast/report.
Correct?

Allen

Over the last few seasons, I have shot a bunch of deer with the Barnes 53gr TSX.

Probably around a dozen or so, maybe more, can't really remember and don't keep close count. So not a real big sample size.

My 22-250 pushes them @ 3850 fps. I have never recovered one. The shots have ranged from 40-350 yards. As with any shooting, shot placement is key.

A friend of mine use to shoot all of deer with factory 55gr Remington ammo. Then he stepped up to a 30-06.

I would think that the 60gr NP would work very well, but I have zero experience with them and don't plan on trying them. The TSX's do everything I need.