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Has anybody worked up a round for a 257 Rob AI with a 100 gr. Sierra? I bought a 257 on a 98 Mauser action and am working up a load now. It seems the hotter the load the better it shoots. I am at 55.0 gr of H4831SC and a 100 gr Gameking and it is a tack driver, but it is flatting primers. The gun will take the psi but I am sure I won't get much case life. Having to fire form cases I would like to extend the life as long as possable. | ||
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Welcome I've found that many AI's need to be pushed. However, just because you have some flatting doesn't by itself indicate short case life. Quickload doesn't call that load all that hot. If it is a concern take a couple cases and continue to reload them to establish a case life. I have no personal data for the Gameking. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Thanks for the input. How do you like the Quickload program. I am thinking of buying it, but have not been able to bring my self to the $152.00 price yet. | |||
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QL gives you a good set of data. With a little practice you can adjust the program to give you a very accurate forcast. Since I load and shoot more wildcats than factory it helps me. Is it the perfect answer NOPE. A good program worth $150 YEP. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I love my 257AI. Mine is a Sako bolt action pistol. I run 100gr NBT @ 2800fps from a 15" barrel. Let me do some digging this weekend and I can get you the load data. *we band of 45-70ers* USAF AMMO Retired! | |||
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A flat primer is really not a good indicator of anything.I had a savage mod 10 in 223 that would flatten primers with factory ammo and every load I loaded. Your load is 1.5 gr above noslers max load with a 100 gr bullet.I have a 257 vickery imp I'm loading 48.2 of imr 4350 and getting 3200 fps with a 100 gr win sp. An ackley chambering does not have to be hot rodded..I know it may be cool,,I've done it,I blew a savage bolt apart trying to make a 223 AI into a 22-250.Back it down,enjoy the 2-300 fps over the standard chambering.If you want case life..neck size,and dont try to make it a 25-06.. | |||
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55gr is a pretty stout load. Nosler lists 53.5 as max and Sierra says 53.2gr is max. Might wanna back off a little.  | |||
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Do the manuals say what pressure they are loading too? The parent case max pressure which in the case of the Roberts will be low. Or something higher? As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Good question. I see no reference to pressures in either manual. | |||
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Reason I asked QL calls the 55grs in the 58,000psi range. Same pressure that the software has for the Roberts +P. I've always felt in modern rifles if the 6mm is good for a 65,000 max why not the Roberts. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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What a minute. don't mean to pick a fight but you always said "Equal Pressure". If a 6mm can be 65K why can a 280AI be 65K or the 7x57AI in a modern rifle. How's the weather in Parker we got lot of blowing snow Black Forest. VFW | |||
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Tom, I'm not sure I understand your concern. I use the term "Equal Pressure" a lot. Somewhere I have a lot of published data showing how fantastic the various AIs were. Couple of the best improving AIs were the Roberts and 7x57. Both AI gains compared to FACTORY loads. So AIs in the 65,000+ range probably compared to factory loaded in the 51,000 range. I spent a lot of time and $$ over the years with AIs and often my own PDK designs. Some testing with strain guages etc to try and compare at equal pressure. In my opinion if you want to find out what you gain from an AI both the factory case and AI case need to be loaded to the same pressure. Then you have a better comparison. I'm sure others will disagree. People say the 7-08 is better than the 7x57 both factory. Yep the 7-08 is loaded 10,000psi hotter. So when I start talking the 308 based case the 7x57based and the 06 all in modern bolt actions I "TRY" and load them to the same pressure range. Probably more in the 62-63,000 range. I like 5-6+ loadings. Then make my performance comparisons. Why take a 270 and 25-06 to 65,000 but leave the 280 and 30-06 in the 58-60,000 range. Another one that makes me smile is the 7mm Rem at 62,000 compared to the STW at 66,700. Again in MY OPINION as the lawyers got more involved load manuals started limiting loads at the published SAAMI max pressure. I "believe" those parent pressures carried over to nonSAAMI wildcats. I can look at my old loading manuals and they state max loads as being either a full case or .0005 swelling. That much swelling is going to be 65,000+ normally. Heck of a rant for not really understanding your issue.  Didn't mean to take the thread a different direction. I'm 10 miles east of Parker. They say 10" of snow I call it more like 6" but we have some 7' drifts.  But since I've recovering from my heart surgery my two great neighbors plowed my drive and walk for me.As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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 Great posting!!  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Well said Paul... Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Paul, my results through the years agree with many of your results. The only thing that I would add is that some cases are designed to tolerate higher pressures, such as the 308 family of cases. The web area of the case is stronger and case walls are thicker, therefore the "allowed" working pressure increase. The +P Roberts and all of the WSM,WSSM, RUM, and RSUM are designed to withstanding higher pressures. Hope your recovery from sugery is going well, I took that path the end of May and spent this summer and fall without being able to shoot anything but 22LR- makes for a long year. | |||
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Duane I think the era in which you bought the brass makes a difference as well. I had a piece of OLD 9.3x62 and the web was thinner than new stuff. Recovery is going great. My old valve was in such bad shape even at only 5 weeks I have about 20 times as much energy. Walked 3 miles in just a touch over an hour this morning on the treadmill. Trying to follow orders so the sternum heals so I can at least be shooting my deer rifle this fall. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I can't comment on much of the posts here but I do have a .257 Roberts. I get 3060fps with 46.0gr. of H4350 and a 100gr. Hornady IL. Given the sub 1" groups I get I'd say I'm pretty well happy with it. I never bothered to try anything other than H4350 in the Bob. It just seems to click with the cartridge. Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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Rob, that must be a smokin' little Deer round. | |||
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Hey, when people talk about your rifle, do they refer to it as Robert's Roberts? DOH! | |||
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Get Quickload. Measure your fired case capacity..... It can really open your eyes as to what's going on pressure/velocity wise. You will be glad you did! Dan | |||
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Try some Norma MRP or RL22, It'll wake it up. Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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The SAAMI pressure for the 257 Roberts is 45000 and the +P load is at 50000. I would think that that is pretty close to all the pressure you want to use. I would say - back it down to not more than 53.2 and see if you lose much accuracy. Is the case sticky at all when you extract it? Does the case grow with each firing? Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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If thats where the accuracy is then shoot a few, if you have no other pressure signs then your fine..reload one round with that load and see how many reloadings you get, and if the primer pockets loosen up, cut back a grain..Look for extraction marks on the case head and perhaps mic your case expansion...with 4831 I suspect your ok..All these things I suggest you look for mean little if you just have one that show up, but if several show up then back off a half grain at a time, trying to keep your same accuracy..Also the use a chronograph is really a good thing. In many instances with either 4831 I have found I got my best accuracy with max or near max loads. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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When Ackley wrote about his baby, the 257AI, he stated that pressures were really high but he did not consider that to be a problem. I would not worry flattened primers but I would take notice of serious cratering. In politics as in theology! "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, But the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 | |||
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The problem here is that the posters are referring to two different pressure measurements. QL gives pressure in psi, while SAAMI gives it in CUP - two completely different systems which are not the same. Example from a Hercules (Alliant) loading manual for the .257 Roberts: 45,000 CUP = 54,000 psi For the .257 Roberts +P: 50,000 CUP = 58,000 psi.
The OP's "flat primers" could easily be due to improper headspacing. Many gunsmiths do not understand how to properly chamber an AI and will cut the chamber too deep. The result is excess headspace and with lower pressure loads this leads to protruding primers. Primer cratering can mean nothing. I had a Japanese-built MkV Weatherby which showed heavily cratered primers even with starting loads. A poorly made bolt face was the cause....too large of a firing pin opening. Neither flattened primers or cratered primers guarantees a high pressure load. . | |||
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I Don't have an AI Roberts but have gradually worked up loads that are +P levels or higher. I have cases that have been loaded eight times so far, and no primer issues. In a modern rifle there is no reason OTHER than the case, that it can't be loaded to modern pressures. The case will tell you how much you are stressing it. My Roberts shoot's better when pushed a bit, particularily with heavier bullets. | |||
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Most all the methods we use as regular hunters and reloaders are truly questionalbe, but its all we got.. IMO the chronograph is the safest test by far but it should be combined with the other signs..flat primers and cratering mean little unless used with the other signs of pressure as they come in different hardness from batch to batch..Miked case are iffy in that brass is various degrees of hardness, More postitives signs seem to be extractor indentions in the case head, and sticky bolts.. BUT with the use of a chronograph, then all the above are much more sugnificant, and remember we fly by the seat of our pants so always bow to the lesser load, and keep in mind even a 100 or more FPS will not make more than an inch in trajectory at all ranges and no animal can detect the differnce upon impact.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I'm not among those that will disagree....Ramrod is dead on with this statement. I have learned much from him.....even met him once in Colorado.....he's among the top posters on these boards.....read his comments with confidence. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Ramrod, I agree with you 100%, but the problem is that not many reloaders, both newbies and experienced have the wheretofore or the equipment to arrive at the same pressure without reloading manuals that so state, and even then it is problematic as pressures different greatly from gun to gun.. Loads can be sent to a lab such as Whites Lab and have that information, but I doubt that many will do that..??  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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A good example is the .280 AI. It used to be comical to read the description in the older Nosler manual stating how the AI nearly duplicated the 7mm Rem velocities yet, their printed data showed it basically generating the same velocities as the std 280 while using more powder. Now that Nosler "legitimized" the cartridge, its SAAMI pressure is what, 63K PSI? Now the printed velocities do indeed nip at the heels of the 7mm Rem.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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