Just starting to do the coyote thing and am planning a couple of trips a year to Nevada. What would be the best caliber in your opinion? Was leaning towards 220 swift or 22-250.

In my opinion, the best would be the 223 remington. Dirt cheap to shoot, Plenty of good loads available, and powerful enough to cleanly take yotes at sane ranges.

SBB

I think either one of those would be fine.

I know there will be more than a few guys who will disagree, but in factory 22 centerfires, the 22-250 is pretty hard to beat. Lots of rifles chambered for it, factory ammo, and it's easy to handload. As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage the Swift offers is a bit more velocity.

the swift and the 22.250 are interchangable in the real world...

the 223 is just plain economical...lessens your point blank range 40 yds or so...but beyond that, will do what a 22.250 will do... just at a little closer range...but offset by some real low cost high volume shooting...

cheers
seafire

I went prarie dog shhoting last year with a 22-250. The other person I went with had a 220 Swift. I agree with seafire/B17G, you will probably not see much difference. If I were just getting into it, since I reload, I would buy which ever one I found the best deal on. The brass for the 22-250 seems like it would be more available.

My first centrefire was a Swift . Great cartridge . Had a .22/250 later and it could never quite fill the Swift's shoes without lots of FL sizing and case trimming . Maybe I should have done it the other way around ?

I wouldn't be without a .223 for coyotes. As has been said, the .22-250 will add a little bit of range but not a lot. I have very little experience with the Swift. It did seem to shoot flatter than the .22-250 but that could be in how it was loaded to.

If I had to start over right now, one of my first purchases would be a flat-top AR in .223. If you are thinking you want to do some long range shooting I'd recommend you look at 6mmBR, .260R, .257 Bob, .25-06, .243W. Not necassarily in that order. High BC bullets will help a lot in the long range dept. One of my fav's for longer range is a .25-06 shooting Hornady SST's. Nate

P.S. Did you ask this on the Varmint Board?

If you reload or are planning to reload, buy a Swift with a 26" barrel and never look back to see who's trying to catch up.

If you don't plan on reloading, I'd say .223 and .22-.250 in that order.

I believe the .223 would be a better choice for a beginner & most economical. I still shoot mine more than any other caliber and love it.

quote:

Was leaning towards 220 swift or 22-250.

As a person that has owned both and several times I can say with confidence that there's no difference at all.

The 22-250 however uses a standard case head and gets my vote of the two......

That said the 223 is not taking much of a back seat to the 22-250 either.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
Just starting to do the coyote thing and am planning a couple of trips a year to Nevada. What would be the best caliber in your opinion? Was leaning towards 220 swift or 22-250.

Gunny for calling I'd go with one of the following. First choice .223 then not nessarily in this order .221, .222 .20 and then .17 Remington.

My feeling is if you are calling and doing anything right your shots are going to be a lot less than 300 yards. Knowing that you will work a lot harder at being a good caller.

The .223 .222 and .221 will offer you more than double the barrel life of the 22-250 or .220 Swift.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Was leaning towards 220 swift or 22-250.

As a person that has owned both and several times I can say with confidence that there's no difference at all.

I have not owned a 22-250. But I have reloaded and chron'ed and shot my .220 beside a buddy's 22-250 (same barrel length) for the past 15 years. I will not debate the case for the 22-250 being possibly a more sensible choice for 8 guys out of 10 buying a vermin rifle. But don't you think you may be over-simplifying a bit in your statement?

Given, I am relying on a 2 rifle comparison (a factory 77V and a factory 70V). But the Swift consistantly ran 200 - 400 fps faster than the 22-250 with the same bullet and turned in considerably better accuracy. I won't claim the accuracy is an inherent trait of the Swift. But the speed is.

Buy a .223 in a Varmint configuration. As the others have said, economical, accurate, easy on barrels. If you think you need more later, then get a Swift or .22-250, but you will keep the .223.

Great information, thanks guys. I will be reloading but dont intend to push the envelope, just for the economy and the consistancy. Factory ammo has a tendency to change just when you find a good load. Sounds like a 223 is a good place to start. I could always give it to my son if I found myself lusting for a 220 swift. What is the best leupold scope for a varmit rig. I have several 3.5X10"s but would I need more power on a varmint rig?

For a .223 for your use stated above my choice would be a 4.5 X 14 Leupold or Weaver Grand Slam. Yes or the scope you mention above would also be great.

Really great points about economy and bbl life in the .223. Thanks, guys.

Which .223?

I own a couple of Ruger VTs, Savage 12 BVSS, and a Remington VLS, and VSS all in 223....

Plus some sporter weight ones also...

The Savage would rate tops in utility.. upside is 1 in 9 twist.. down side, is One in 9 twist..
Upside is that it will shoot bullets up to 77 grains very well.. downside is the twist will make fragile bullets vaporize just a few inches out of the barrel...

I'd rate the Remington overall a lot more smoother and refined.... the Ruger is in between the two...

The Remington takes first place for accuracy with the broadest range of bullets... the Savage a very close second, but with the ability to handle a wider range of bullets than the Remington... then finally the Ruger on accuracy...

All are more than capable of minute of ground squirrel out to 300 yards...

For just a cheap rifle out of the box, Stevens or a Sporter weight Savage... the SPS/ ADL Rems are not a bad deal either, just a little more spendier than the Savage/Stevens...

cheers
seafire

Unless you plan on shooting at extreme range I would go with the 223 as your first varmint gun.
I have killed prairie dogs as far as 450 yards but in reality it is a 300 yard gun.

If you are a reloader , I would take the .204 , along with a 6mm thru 25/06 for those times you think you may want to shoot well beyond 400 yards.........

I would agree with the idea of a .223. Until you start to reload, milsup ammo is so cheap you can't reload for less. My next choice would be the 22-250. It is accurate, easy to load for, and components are readidly available. At one time, it was "THE" bench rest rifle.

Nevada just has to be wide open spaces. The coyote is about the only animal that I would wing a shot at no matter how far it was as long as the backstop was safe.

For coyotes the 243 Win is king. The Swift is good to but it does not carry the power much past 400 yds for me. I would just get a regular 243 and a laser rangefinder and work on what ammo shoots best.

I would shoot at those bastichs too with a 223 but its not a strong round.

To add that many 'deer' rifles will hammer coyotes too.

My vote would go to the 22-250. Admittedly it doesn't have a tremendous amount of steam compared to the 223 but enough that it makes a difference.

I also believe that the 22-250 is a little less finicky about the loads it will like than the 220 Swift. I have never personally loaded for a 220 Swift so this is just from reading, over the years, the accounts of others.

Personally I use a 223, because ammo and brass are cheap, and frankly inside of 300yards it simply doesn't matter.

Choosing between the 22-250 and the 220Swift?

No contest, the 22-250.

Not only is the Winchester economy ammo in 40round boxes a convient way to shoot yourself some reloadable brass for $17 /bx from WallyWorld, but many 220Swifts are persnickety about feeding, it is critical to keep the rim
on each round positioned correctly relative to the round below it in the stack, on the 22-250 it isn't an issue.

My attitude has always been that if I can't kill something with either 40gr or 50gr bullets from a 223rem that launching the bullets faster
(I get 3500fps from the 50's and 3800 from the 40's) or using heavier 22cal (which the usual slow twist of a 22-250 or 220swift don't stabilize anyway) bullet won't help as much as shifting to a 6mm caliber will.

for varmint work past 350yards I'd rather use a 6mmRem and 75gr bullets, so there is basically nothing I can do with a 22cal that I can't do with a 223Rem.


AllanD

Maybe I should buy a couple more Swifts. Maybe I'll, then, run across one with all the illnesses listed here. Maybe I got some kind of unusual critter when I got mine. So I gotta defend my pet round.

I got a Ruger MKI 77V about 15 years ago. It's never failed to feed. It's never been finicky about what I've fed it.......grouping everything into less than 3/4" at 100 and throwing some awesome groups with the stuff it REALLY likes. It loves a full dose of IMR-3031 and shoots best at big velocity (I don't play around above max). Never had any excessive copper-fouling trouble either. I do my sight-in's at the approximate distance where most agree their .223's run out of practicality. I consider the Swift to be a very honest and consistant 500m 'chuck round........provided the wind isn't too nasty......farther on a calm day. That being said.......the .223 is a more practical vermin round for most applications. Practicality bores me.

I too, will vote for the .223 Remington. I own a CZ 527 Lux/American that can certainly do it all. I would not recommend it as consistant 500 yard p-dog killer, but it will get the job done with a boatload of luck and an equal amount of skill. As to a scope, I am extremely pleased with my new Bushnell 3200 in 7x21x40. It is extremely clear, weighs in at just 15 ounces and it looks good sitting atop my CZ. Tom Purdom

How important is it to have a heavy target barrel on a varmit rig?

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
How important is it to have a heavy target barrel on a varmit rig?

Gunny it depends on the type of Varmint hunting. For PD's I'd go heavy 6 or 7 contour. But you mentioned coyotes and on a carry/calling rifle about a 4 contour to a 5 or 5A max.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
How important is it to have a heavy target barrel on a varmit rig?

The heavy barrel will come in handy in a volume shooting situation. It does not heat up as quick.

If your calling 'yotes there isn't many times you "need" to shoot as far away as has been mentioned here. Most called in 'yotes will be well within range of a .223, and it works fine. My son took another one this week end with one shot from a mini-14 at about 130 yards. It's the farthest shot he's taken.

For calling a light barrel fast handling rifle is my choice. Now that my young'uns are holding down the fort I usually bring something to reach way out there in case one hangs up. I rarely shoot! Nate

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
If your calling 'yotes there isn't many times you "need" to shoot as far away as has been mentioned here. Nate

Yep. What he said........yep.

I think I got a tad off subject before......talking more about 'chuck hunting. I believe the .223 would be a good deal kinder to the pelts, as well.

A walking or calling yote rifle? .257 Roberts, 75 grain Vmax loaded to around 3500 and a simple 2x7 or 3x9 scope will do. No coyote alive from Mexico to the pole can survive a good hit. Plain sporter barrel is fine.

As for varmints a .223 Rem. this will work just fine for coyotes too if you barrel it right, sporter for calling and walking around, a heavy for fixed piece shooting of pdogs. The muzzle blast of a .223 is FAR less than the .22-250 or .22 swift and if the pdogs don't stay up you don't shoot much. A .223 helps in this regard. If one "needs" a long range varminter here on the plains a .243 Win, .243WSM, 6mm Rem, .257 Roberts or .25-06 is in order. My personal varmint choice is a CZ527 Varmint in .223 4.5 x 14 scope decent and cost effective rig. Ammo costs less, brass costs less and powder use is 25% or more less. No beef with the Swift or the .22-250, I just don't see the need to wear out barrels at that rate. They don't torch them overnight but they torch substantially faster than a .223 and the recoil necessitates an observer to call your misses. Just my .02

Most of my coyote hunting will be done at first and last light with a call. I wont however pass up a chance at a runner that I spook with the truck moving positions. Ive seen so many when Im antelope and deer hunting in Nevada it just seems a natural progression for scouting season and summers .

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
How important is it to have a heavy target barrel on a varmit rig?

I have done a couple of "varmint rifle" rebarrels like this...

I chose to go with a heavy Magnum contour barrel.. one in a 6mm Rem and other two in a 22.250 configuration...

The heavy magnum contour is what is used on something like a 458 or 416 or something....

But it gives me close to a heavy varmint barrel, but in a package that is easier to walk around with...

I have a 24 inch barrel on a 6mm Rem Long action on a model 700 Rem, and on a Ruger 77 Mk 2 in 22.250 with a one in 8 twist on it...

ON another 22.250, I have a 28 inch heavy magnum contour on a Model 70 short action in 22.250,

All 3 are stainless Pac Nor barrels...

But a heavy magnum contour actually makes a nice varmint rifle with still giving some mobility...

I also have a 223 Ruger 77 Mk 2 that is needed to get rebarreled...

I am seriously thinking about the heavy magnum contour on that one also, but in a shortened 20 inch configuration....I already have a hogue rubber stock for it...The only thing that is holding me up is deciding on a 223 or a 6/223...

cheers
seafire