Hello Guys,

Sorry this might be a more general question but I have been playing around with a couple sako vixen's lately. What are some first hand reviews of the L461 action?

I have a 222 and a 223. Does anyone know the rate of twist and has anyone tried shooting 60 gr. Partitions out of their vixens?

Any information would be appreciated,

ddj

I had a SAKO Vixen in 223.
Sporter barrel.

I shot it so much I wore the barrel out.
I used it for prairie dogs and wild turkeys.

I used Hornady 55gr SX bullets most of the time.

If I remember correctly it shot 60gr Hornady SP and HP good too.

After I shot the barrel out I had Shilen rebarrel it.

I liked the rifle a lot.

After I started shooting Blaser R 93's my brother got the SAKO.

You will just have to try the 60gr bullets in your rifle.

Your .222 Rem will be a 1:14".

I shoot 50 grs bullets in mine. Since they work, I have never bothered to try anything else.

The L461 is the smoothest action I personally own. It is like a sewing machine!

Check out your serial numbers against this list, and figure out when your rifles were manufactured:

http://www.sako.fi/pdf/datatab...dmodelsNumbering.pdf

- mike

L have owned several Vixens over the years. I thought they were all very nice little rifles, though I much preferred the triggers of the L-42 and L-46 (and still do).

Because of that, over time I have sold my Vixens and now have both an L-42 and an L-46...the L-42 in 7x33 Sako, and the L-46 in .222 Remington.

The Vixen has somewhat nicer lines to both eyes and hands in my opinion. I think that's primarily because of the non-detachable, more shallow, double-stack magazine. That 461 magazine also seems to produce less scratches on the brass in the long run.

On the other hand, the detchable single-stack magazines of the '42 & '46 have some advantages IF you don't lose them. (I buy spares ASAP. just in case) Quicker reloading is one advantage, and the ability to quickly change between one load and another, when needed, is a second "plus".

Having had similar sporters (the 1432 Sporter for example) by Anschutz, Brno, Krico, et. al., I much prefer the Sakos. So, I guess I'd have to say that IMPO you chose a pretty nice little rifle.

Now I guess I'll have to say with a friendly intent what I tell my son...quit sitting there talking about it. You're burning summer daylight. Get out there and shoot it some more!!

Just joshing you...but have fun with it while you can. God doesn't give us unlimited opportunites to enjoy ANYTHING.

I have a couple, a .222 and a .223. I have tried 60 gr. part. in both of them but only a few loads. Accuracy was not good in either of them, I blamed the slow twist and went back to lighter bullets. The .222 really likes 40 gr. V-Max bullets.

Rifles built on the L461 action are nice...IMHO.

Maybe that's why I have a few dozen of them.....

Kevin

Kevin is the L461 guru. His words carry wisdom. I don't own as many as Kevin, but I'm trying.

Depending on its age, your .222 could even have a 1-16" twist. The only way to know is to run a tightly wadded patch down the bore and measure a revolution.

A fairly late .223 I have (in fact, so late as to be an A-1, the L461 successor) has a twist that I've measured several times and it keeps coming out at about 1-13". I was somewhat dubious of shooting long bullets in it, but tried some 60 grain Ballistic Tips (even longer than the partitions). They shot just as accurately as lighter bullets, which is to say very accurately. Go ahead and try the 60 grain Noslers in your guns. Unless the .222 is a 1-16", they are likely to shoot them just fine.

In my view, the L461 is an order of magnitude superior to any other action in its length class. The old Kimber of Oregon Model 84 probably came closest, and while a very nice action, simply isn't nearly as smooth nor as "friendly" as the L461. The Zastava Mini Mark X has been referred to as a "poor man's" L461. It is a functional action of which I own two, but it doesn't even start to be in the same class with the Sako.

The Vixen is the best choice for small varmint guns. I have #314 in the 6ppc. You only have to hold one for a moment and you will understand what a sweet action they are!!!

ive got a couple of old sakos one in 222 and one in 222 mag. wonderful wonderful guns. never tried a 60 gr out of either one. both are tackdrivers, always enjoy taking the mag out and shooting the corners off postage stamps at 100

My L461 arrived as an H&R Ultra, complete with California-style stock and 20 inch barrel of pencil thin contour. Never got the 222 1:14 to shoot so I rebarreled it as a 223 1:9 with a heavy contour and a Fajen laminate stock. It has the best trigger of any rifle I own and it shoots nice but it's needlessly heavy. Been thinking it might make a nice 6mm Myra or 25 Copperhead with a light barrel and a synthetic handle.

Mr. Gullette,(or anyone else) I would love to see pics of some of your Vixens. I'm trying to get ideas for a build on a L-461.
Appreciate it!

Not an L461, but here's a pic of an AI PPC repeater, that I rebarrelled into a 17 PPC some years ago.

It's hell on coyotes.

Kevin

IMO, the Sako 461 or AI actions are the best actions for the 223 size round; unlike the Ruger, Win, Rem, etc. that use a 308 length action for such small cartridges. It's like hauling your weekly groceries in a 40' end dump. It works, but you just don't need the room. I have/had several Sako AIs in 17 Rem, 222 and 223. Lou

I have a couple of A1's. One is a 17 Rem and the other is a 223. Very nice and very accurite. I love them. They are so much nicer than a Remington 700.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Gullette:
Not an L461, but here's a pic of an AI PPC repeater, that I rebarrelled into a 17 PPC some years ago.

Please tell us more about the 17 PPC. I imagine it bests the 17 Fireball but does it run with the 17 Remington?

In the mid 1990's I built the 17 PPC 6.0" twist to shoot the Berger 37VLD bullet at about 3800fps. Unfortunately most bullets would blow up upon muzzle exit. I've since switched to the LRB 32VLD solid, at about 4000fps. I may rebarrel to a 7.0"twist someday.

I'm currently putting together an AI in 17 Predator, that is an improved/blown-out 223 case, which should shoot the Kindler 30 Gold bullet at about 4100fps with its 26" Lilja 4 groove 9.0" twist barrel. Pic attached.

BTW, nordrseta....I've sent you a couple of PM's.

Kevin

Thanks for all the info. I have a couple questions.

What is the differnece (if there is any) between a L461 and a AI?

Alot of the Vixens I have seen here have been made into customs. Were they shot out? Are they accurate rifles before customized? What is the going rate for just an action?

Thanks,

ddj

quote:

Originally posted by trouthunterdj:
What is the differnece (if there is any) between a L461 and a AI?

Comparatively little - or next to nothing, depending on how you look at it...

The L461 has an open bolt shroud, the A1 has a closed shroud with a cocking indicator. The extractors are also different, the L461 has a narrower extractor than the A1 does. The gas block on an L461 can turn freely around the bolt, the ones on my A1s can't.

The (one) L461 I have worked with has been smoother than the A1-s I have worked with, but that could just be the luck of the draw.

Other than that, I don't know of any differences off hand. If you can find an A1, that is just as good an action as the L461 - IMHO.

Some of the most accurate factory guns available were the A1 (and a few L461s) in 6mm PPC. These guns are almost scarily accurate - for a factory rifle. I have also had good luck with L461s and A1s in .222 Rem. All of the rifles I have worked with have had heavy barrels - i.e. were not sporters.

The only drawback with these actions I can think of, is that the (factory) trigger can't be set too much lower than 2 lbs - some people manage to get them further down, but you start getting problems with the sear holding if you go much below 2 lbs. Since, in effect, the Timney is the only aftermarket trigger available for these actions, and since this (in spite of advertized pulls of 1.5 lbs) does not go much below 2 lbs either, that is about as low as you'll be able to go. There is a Sako factory target trigger, which will go as low as about 1.1 - 1.2 lbs, but they are getting scarce. Supposedly, there is also a set trigger available for some Sakos, but I have never encountered one on an L461 or an A1. If you are happy with a 2 lbs (plus/minus) pull weight, you are good to go.

- mike

As Mike says, there are only minor differences in the two actions. Either will fit in the same stock inletting.

The bolt handle is slightly longer on the A-I, and very often you'll find a synthetic magazine follower in the A-I rather than the metal follower in all L461's. As Mike mentioned, the early L461's used a longer, narrower extractor, but later ones were identical to the A-I.

People who build custom rifles on their small Sako actions are extremely proud of them (rightfully so), thus you see quite a few showcased. But statistically, I suspect that a smaller percentage of Sako Vixens than other rifles like the Rem 700, Win 70, etc. are cannnibalized for custom rifles than stay forever in their factory state. The small cartridges for which they were chambered have very long barrel lives. I've personally never seen a Sako .222 or .223 barrel "shot out", although a combination of rapid shooting, careless storage, or improper cleaning could lead to the early death of a Vixen barrel. But mostly, the owners of custom L461/A-I rifles have redone them just because they wanted to, not because the original barrels were done for.

My Vixen is in 222mag. I tried the 60gr Vmax, but the best it would do was about 1". Still excellent accuracy, but the rifle does better with 55gr and under.

It is a little older but my L-46 is going to be a Lilja barreled .20 Vartag. My others "L-46's" are factory .222 and I love them. I think this will be the ultimate Fireball family action.

Mike and Stonecreek have pretty well covered the L461 and AI differences.

I might add that you may see many "custom" rifles built on the small Sako action due to the fact that both the L461 and AI actions WERE available as actions only. The L461 was fully blued, and the AI was in-the-white.

Another trigger was the Canjar single-set. I put one on a single-shot L461 that I built into a 17-222 PD rifle. The trigger breaks at 3oz.

I'll attach a pic of an AI, in-the-white. I'm thinking about making it into a 20 Duster.

Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Gullette:
Another trigger was the Canjar single-set. I put one on a single-shot L461 that I built into a 17-222 PD rifle. The trigger breaks at 3oz.

So true Kevin. If that trigger had been generally available, it would have been the bee's knees...Pity that it was almost impossible to get a trigger out of Canjar. Does the company still exist??

It is indeed incredible to consider, that just a "few" years back, Sako actions (A1, AII, AV etc) were sold in the white by Brownells for comparatively little $$$. No availability issues, no questions asked. Order an action and away you go... Pity that changed!

- mike

How true, Mike!!!!!!!!

I still have the old Brownells catalogs.....AND a few of the actions I bought from them.

I just wish I had bought a few more.......dozen.

Kevin

If you could find an parts gun and just use the action, what would the going rate be?

Thanks

ddj

People are asking $550-600 for salvaged actions by themselves. If you can find a beater gun, you can buy it for less than this. For that matter, you can buy a cherry gun for $750-800 and sell the barrel and stock for enough to make the action cost you less than an buying a bare action.

Often overlooked are "off brand" guns made on the Sako action: Montgomery Wards, Marlin, H&R, Browning, Colt, North American Grizzly (Canada only), and a few others used Sako actions. Some used only the long or medium length action, but several used the little L46 or L461.

If I wanted to build a custom rifle on a Sako L461, I would cruise the pawn shops during the "off" season.

here's a couple of little sakos. the bottom one is a 222 that don allen made before he started dakota, the top one is one that i made long long ago its a 222 mag

Both of your rifles are beautiful!

I like the thin open grip of the Don Allen 222. Nice wood.

Thankd for showing your rifles,

ddj

Butchloc,

Very nice rifles!!

Stunning wood!

Kevin

Here's my mint 222 that I picked up SUPER CHEAP! It has a Canjar trigger and is glass bedded.

quote:

Originally posted by trouthunterdj:
If you could find an parts gun and just use the action, what would the going rate be?

Thanks

ddj

Gun prices have become so ridiculous recently, I wouldn't even guess at that. But I think you might want to follow some of the advice above and look for a minty little Sako rifle instead of an action donor. I bought a brand new, unfired .222 L-46 just a few months ago for $700 at a gun show here in Oregon. So they are out there if yolu have a little patience and seek them out.

Mine is no longer unfired, but still looks mint and shoots extremely well even for a .222...which is known pretty much everywhere as a very accurate round in most rifles which were made for it.

mho
I sent you a PM asking where you got the info on serial numbers and dates of manuf.
I have a number of Sako Vixens and they all shoot great.

Better tomorrows!

Harry, just saw your post and your PM.

Just in case anybody else wonders. The URL I posted above regarding serial numbers and manufacturing dates comes directly from the Sako website.

http://www.sako.fi/pdf/datatab...dmodelsNumbering.pdf

I was tickled whan I saw Sako had published this information. In the past, I have run into countless Sako owners looking for this info...

- mike

Thanks for the info on the Sako dates. I took the Vixens out again today to get them ready for the prairie dogs. I love these actions and rifles.

I think building one in a 204 would be great!

ddj

trouthunterdj,

Unless used strictly as a single-shot, I would not suggest making a 204R on a repeater L461 action. The maximum OAL of the cartridge, to feed through the box magazine, is about 2.280" + or - a few thou. Even the factory 222 Magnums must use deeply seated bullets, or factory ammo, if you can find any.

Now....a 20PPC on a repeater AI action would be neat. Sako made 22 and 6PPC repeater rifles....long ago.

Here's a pic of a factory single-shot L461 action. It's now a 17-222 PD rifle.

Kevin

quote:

Unless used strictly as a single-shot, I would not suggest making a 204R on a repeater L461 action.

Kevin: I run into magazine length problems with my factory .222 Magnum if I try to use a 55 grain Ballistic Tip or other long-for-weight bullet. However, my assumption was that the .204 bullets were somewhat shorter than the .224" bullets. This is only an assumption as I've never even handled a .204, greatly resisting the huge temptation to add yet another caliber to feed to my overpopulated/underutilized array of varminting rifles.

Stonecreek,

You have piqued my interest. 204R versus 222Magnum.

Pic attached.

Measurements:

204R case= 1.842" , bullet 40BT= 0.743"

222Mag case= 1.846" , bullet 40BT= 0.692"

Even with a custom chamber, with zero freebore, I suspect that one would still be hard pressed to get anywhere near the lands.....AND still feed through the L461 magazine.

Interesting situation, though.

Kevin

Kevin:

Since virtually all bullets available for the .204 are the plastic-tipped variety (and thus long-for-caliber), you may be right that the .204 Ruger is crowded in the L461 magazine. However, if I wanted a .204 on this platform I wouldn't let that stop me because most of the utilization of a .204 would be in single-shot mode, anyway.

I would guess that you could get by with the 32 grainers in the .204 at magazine length, couldn't you?

Stonecreek,

Yes....one could use the 32's in the 204R, even though I think the 40's are more suited to its case capacity. But even my 17-222Mag's are having to jump the bullet about 0.15". Maybe, with a custom chamber, you could get closer with the 32's. I'd hate to relegate a nice L461 repeater....to a single-shot.

I recently bought a Rem 700 LVSF in 204R, to build into a coyote calling rifle.My plans are to use either the 40VMax, 40BT, or 39BK bullets. I'll soon find out how long its throat is.

Kevin

I have a .20cal in a L461 and the mag length is a bit length challenged for a 204R. So my gunsmith with his ingenuity made me a 204Ruger Short.

Don't even need a reamer. He bought a stack of Ruger 204 sporters barrels which have the chamber hammer forged in just shortens the chamber a bit (I think 0.050" to bring headspace the same as a 223Rem - so you get the drift ) and shortens a std 204R sizing die by corresponding amount. Run a std 223Rem case through the die in 1 pass, load and fire, Very accurate to boot.

Have loaded the 32gr & 40gr both woork well. Feed flawlessly.

Regards,
JohnT