i can read a manual and i can load very accurate ammo. what i want is to know how hot i can load a swede with a 98 action. i have a custom and i am not settling for 3,000 fps from a 100 grain bullet, nor 2700 fps from a 120 grain pill.

i am looking for 3200 ish from the 100 and 2900 or 3000 from the 120.

i know it can be done but i am not about to try it without some guidance.

-Matt

my 6.5 X 55 in built on a M-98 VZ-24.

I use H-4350 powder and 120 grain Northforks.

They exit my 21" Douglas barrel at 3,045 FPS.

It's a helluva cartridge!

Start at 45 grains and work up watching for pressure signs.

if you go to Nosler's website, there is load data for a 125gr Partition doing 2950fs

mine is built on a russian capture 8mm converted into a custom with a 22" douglas featherweight barrel in stainless.

hopefully it will shoot well. i have a lot of 100 grain sierra hollowpoints, as well as a box each of nosler 100 BT's and 120 BT's.

-Matt

anyone got load data for the 100 grain Nosler? if you guys know the dimensions, maybe i can use the data from the 100 grain sierra hp?

-Matt

I used 48grs. H4350 and Nosler 120gr. Ballistic Tips in my M70 Featherweight. She'd do 3050fps all day long. Had one lot of powder take it clear to 3100fps.

quote:

48grs. H4350

3400 fps is realistic with a 100 grain bullet... 3500 fps with a 90 grain TNT or an 85 grain Sierra HP...

3250 is possible out of my Swedish Mauser with the 120s

3100 fps is possible out of the same rifle with 125 to 129 grain bullets

2950 fps is possible with the 140s..

this is using IMR or H 4350 for all but the lightest bullets... for those I am using IMR 4064...

these have been chronographed from a Model 70 with a 27 inch barrel and the Mauser with a 29 inch barrel..

I would consider 2950 with 140 too hot. My normal load with 4350 is 2750 and that could be increased to 2850 safely.That's with real 6.5 cases [Norma] and throated for the 160 gr.

Mjbgalt you can go to the IMR / Hodgdons powder website and get all the info you need for 100 grain loads with a variety of powders.
They cover all bullets weights and have some pretty good info and lots of it.
Good luck with yours.

quote:

Originally posted by mjbgalt:
mine is built on a russian capture 8mm converted into a custom with a 22" douglas featherweight barrel in stainless.

hopefully it will shoot well. i have a lot of 100 grain sierra hollowpoints, as well as a box each of nosler 100 BT's and 120 BT's.

-Matt

What barrel length was the data you quoted taken from?
Some very slow 6.5X55 Swede data was taken with the 16 inch carbines. The 29" long rifle give better results.

i wasn't quoting data, just speaking generally.

i think 22" should be enough to get the velocity i want.

thanks for the help, i already had hodgdon's site bookmarked...hard to know when one 100 grain bullet's data can be used for another.

-Matt

quote:

I would consider 2950 with 140 too hot.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

quote:

I would consider 2950 with 140 too hot.

+1

Yupp, 2800 should be about right.

For those questioning how safe the loads for the 140s I posted above...

that info was taken from Speer Manual # 7...

they chronographed theirs from an 18 inch barrel...

my results were chronographed out of a 27 and 29 inch barrel...

just for those that are wondering if I dreamed these up...the answer is no...

I have loaded some of these cases in excess of 10 times, with primer pockets still tight.. so I consider them safe...

however any prudent reloader knows to work up in his rifle.... I verify these are safe in my 3 rifles chambered in 6.5 x 55 only...a Ruger 77 Mk 2, a Model 70 and a 1920 Production Model 96 Swedish Mauser made at the Karl Gustaf Works..

My model 70 will produce 2680 with a 140 grain Speer and 49 grains of RL 22 and Norma brass. I wouldn't want to go up any more in pressure in this rifle.
Regards, Keith

quote:

how hot i can load a swede with a 98 action

Duh.. if you are loading the 6,5x55 to the weaker swedish standard I suggest keeping within that standard. Using any load data marked "swede" will do.

If you want it hotter I suggest using modern load data specified for "modern firearms" or "SCAN".

You might be to hot when you get to 264MAG velocities.best-o-luck

thanks for the sarcasm. i guess i am so dumb i didn't already know that.

torden- if i could just find info i wouldn't have asked.

now, to all the adults, approximately how hot can/should i load a 98? i know the data is skewed low for the older mauser actions out there.

-Matt

quote:

approximately how hot can/should i load a 98? i know the data is skewed low for the older mauser actions out there.

you keep asking tough questions!!!!!

There's an entire world of '98s.....and I'll make it easy on you.....

There's Mausers made in a lot of countries and there's WWI and WWII Mausers.

If you have a Check, German, Belgian, or Yugoslavian made after 1924 then you probably have a good one (and there's a lot of very good ones prior to 1924 as well) The WWII Mausers were mostly heat treated to help prevent setback and this is argued by Mauser afficiandos a lot! However these Mausers are quite strong and handle gas fairly well.

If you have such a Mauser then you can load it as if it were as strong as a modern bolt rifle.

That said.....the case is still the weak point and a ruptured case is a very bad thing for any bolt rifle......especially the CRF rifles like the Mauser.

I wouldn't be afraid to load a Mauser '98 (as I listed) to 60,000 PSI (assuming I could measure the pressure which I can't) but wouldn't load any Mauser prior to the WWII '98s to over 50,000 PSI.

I've just posted one man's opinion.....I'm sure there will be others and of significant differing values!

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
For those questioning how safe the loads for the 140s I posted above...

that info was taken from Speer Manual # 7...

Old hot Speer manuals
That load was dropped in all newer Speer manuals. Can it be done? Quite possibly but at what pressure levels and for what good reason?????????

Well Roger,

would you consider the loads pressure safe if the brass has been loaded with those loads 10 times with primers going in tight each time?

The brass I speak of is the brass you gave me that you had loaded your 7.5 x 55 for...when I met you at your old range in Azusa...

quote:

...how hot can/should i load a 98? -Matt

I`m not saying you are dumb, just ignorant. When you are asking how to load the "swede" hot, you are contradicting yourself. The "swede" is the name for the weaker load used in the swedish mauser. It is by definition a weaker load than the modern plain 6,5x55.

In a M98 or modern firearm you should forget all data marked "6,5x55 swedish" and find the modern loads. Just trying to help you in the right direction.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Well Roger,

would you consider the loads pressure safe if the brass has been loaded with those loads 10 times with primers going in tight each time?

The brass I speak of is the brass you gave me that you had loaded your 7.5 x 55 for...when I met you at your old range in Azusa...

Obviously in your particular rifle and with modern high intensity modern brass and the planets all aligned it would appear that the pressure is certainly manageable. IMHO this load goes beyond the intent of this cartridge as a general rule for all 6.5X55 rifles. What ,for example, would the result be with your tenth consecutive shot at air temperatures exceeding 100 degrees? And don't forget I saw how fast you shoot.
I'll throw this in just for shits and giggles; There are Speer recommended maximums in the .270 that shows what looks like low pressure in my cousins rifle that pops primers in my rifle; Same day same temp. same ammo.

The energy level of which you speak for the 6.5x55 exceeds that of the original 30-06 loadings.

In my earlier reloading year I thought it was quite elegent to hot rod a cartridge to its limits and possibly set new limits. Some where along the line I began to get some meaning out of PV diagramms. Kinda like a celestial down pouring of wisdom. Perhaps I, pondered, it would be wiser , safer and easier on the equipment to increase the Volume(capacity) rather than the PRESSURE. Oh my what a revelation. It also meant that if my interest in increased speed were intense enough I'd just have to go out and buy a new rifle.

Now just as a side note; I haven't used the info from the old hot Speer manuals in a whole lot of years. No foul intended, John, just info and opinion. roger

i know we can overanalyze anything. however i was just in general asking if there were any published loads that take me past 46k in pressure. every place i look has it listed as simply "6.5x55" and does not go above that pressure limit.

i am having a heck of a time finding data here. and i know i can work up loads above that but i would like to know where the ceiling is for those loads, and without some decent data it's hard to know.

Torden- sorry for snapping at you. very bad day that day...wife troubles.

-Matt

quote:

am having a heck of a time finding data here. and i know i can work up loads above that but i would like to know where the ceiling is for those loads,

Life should be so easy......

You will have to do the same as many of us did.....

Go to the range and test a group....go back to the bench and load with a 1/2 grain more.....test....repeat until you see signs of pressure or until you're happy with the load you have.

Unless you (and others) are willing to do your own testing there will never be answers to the following questions:

1. What's the most accurate load for my gun

2. What's the maximum charge for my gun

Just do this:

Load your favorite 120 grain bullet with 44 grains H-4350 (five rounds) and take them to the range and shoot them for a group.....

If all is fine then try 45 grains

again try 46 grains.....then 46.5, 47, 47.5, 48

Fire over a chronograph to see your progress.....and remember.....there may be none at all.....you might actually increase powder and not get an increase in velocity.

In my VZ-24 I stopped at 48 grains H-4350 and Northfork 120 grain bullet at 3,045 FPS....not because I had pressure signs.....but because it was just plain "good enough".....and remember, I don't have a clue what pressure I'm posting.....just that it's working IN MY RIFLE with no pressure signs at all.

You have to do the same!

i can do that. will post results.

-Matt

quote:

Originally posted by mjbgalt:
i can do that. will post results.

-Matt

hint....when you go to the range you can take five rounds 44 grains

five rounds 45 grains

five rounds 46 grains

to save some time...I use a black marker to identify them to make sure I don't mix them!

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Well Roger,

would you consider the loads pressure safe if the brass has been loaded with those loads 10 times with primers going in tight each time?

The brass I speak of is the brass you gave me that you had loaded your 7.5 x 55 for...when I met you at your old range in Azusa...

Obviously in your particular rifle and with modern high intensity modern brass and the planets all aligned it would appear that the pressure is certainly manageable. IMHO this load goes beyond the intent of this cartridge as a general rule for all 6.5X55 rifles. What ,for example, would the result be with your tenth consecutive shot at air temperatures exceeding 100 degrees? And don't forget I saw how fast you shoot.
I'll throw this in just for shits and giggles; There are Speer recommended maximums in the .270 that shows what looks like low pressure in my cousins rifle that pops primers in my rifle; Same day same temp. same ammo.

The energy level of which you speak for the 6.5x55 exceeds that of the original 30-06 loadings.

In my earlier reloading year I thought it was quite elegent to hot rod a cartridge to its limits and possibly set new limits. Some where along the line I began to get some meaning out of PV diagramms. Kinda like a celestial down pouring of wisdom. Perhaps I, pondered, it would be wiser , safer and easier on the equipment to increase the Volume(capacity) rather than the PRESSURE. Oh my what a revelation. It also meant that if my interest in increased speed were intense enough I'd just have to go out and buy a new rifle.

Now just as a side note; I haven't used the info from the old hot Speer manuals in a whole lot of years. No foul intended, John, just info and opinion. roger

Well Roge,

I never start out using the maz load listed in any manual... I do like Older manuals made before Lawyers plagued the industry, that will give a non lawyer approved guideline on load potential...

Before I answer the rest of this post, I will point out, that my loads for the 6.5 x 55 are usually with 120, 125, 129 and 140 grain bullets..

For those, I use a standard load of 40 grains of RL 15, IMR 4895, IMR 4064, Varget... anyone of them, depending on what I pull out of the powder cabinet or what suits my mood at the time...

When I do load 160s, I go the other way... the standard load for that bullet is 30 grains of RL 7 for an MV of 2250 fps or so...recoils pretty much like a 30/30...

just because you saw 'how fast I shoot' at your range, is not indicative of what I do all the time...It depends on what I am shooting, targets, animals, what the temp might be, etc..

I saw the Speer info listed, and worked up to it from about 5 to 6 grains less than amx, while also consulting load data from a few other manuals..working it up, it appears just fine... mulitple reloads on the same brass will tell the truth about pressure..

also these rifles are long throated... as is my Ruger and I had my custom barrel model 70 throated that way also....

you example of the 270 data being fine in one rifle, but popping primers in another is the point that readers should be getting...

each rifle is an entity to itself.. what works well in one, and may be just all fine with SAAMI specs in one rifle, isn't in another...

I have had loads that were blowing primers when I was still several grains below max... excellent example, is Hornday lists a load of 43.5 grains of Benchmark with a 95 grain V Max for the 260 Rem.. I have even had each one of my 3 different 260s, throated out to take 160 grain RN bullets seated to magazine length, which should reduce pressure further on loads like the 95 Grain V Max one listed by them...

neither my 2 Rugers or my Model 700 VLS will take that load without blowing primers all over the place...anything over 40 grains and they are producing loose primer pockets.. even on new brass...

I listed Speer's manual as a reference point... however the loads were worked up..

your questions brought up realistic questions each one of us should be asking when we are developing a load....while pointing out reference manuals are just that.. reference..

they can recommend loads that under a rifle's potential ( if you think you need full potential) and also recommend loads that are hot for YOUR paricular rifle barrel...

that is why I don't always accept what is in print, and ended up catching flak for something that isn't pressure tested within a lab...

unless I bought the barrel and set up they used to test it "in the lab"... it may be correct for my barrel or incorrect also..

and between our exchange here, we both are addressing the title of the thread... " past the 101 level"....

vapodog...that's how i work up a load...the tumbler erases the marker but it allows me to sort them.

how about if i use Varget?
-Matt

quote:

how about if i use Varget?
-Matt

personally, I think it's a trifle fast but it should work OK...start working up from 38 grains and the 120 bullet

Nosler max book with H4350 is 47gr with the 125gr partition. I find that hot in my 09 Argentine Mauser custom and use 46gr for sub half moa and 2,800fps. Thusly reccomendations to start at 45gr or that 48gr is good flies in the face of just about every reloading rule ever written in a published book.

Most old loading manuals listed "hot" loads because they didnt have accurate testing equipement it had nothing to do with lawyers.

Many rifles do not show signs of high pressure, especially custom rifles but this doesnt necessarily mean pressure isnt high. This is why a chronograph should be used. If you are getting a certain max velocity with a load then thats it, even if your powder weight is a couple of grains lower than the listed max.Stick to listed velocities in "modern" reloading manuals and you will be safe.

Each reloader has to do what they feel comfortable with...

we all know the rounds like the Swede here is conservatively loaded..

as I always like to know what a rifle is capable of, both high and low...I have been told by Sierra and it has proven correct.. most 6.5 bullets of weights 120 and above, work the best at around 2800 fps...

my hunting loads fall into that philosophy, as I prefer accuracy first, and velocity second...

but whether anyone thinks the above loads are too hot or not, my Mauser seems to have no problem with them at all...

a lot of these Mausers have been rebarreled to 308, and 7/08, and 243, 257 Roberts etc... and are loaded to specs for those rounds ( with the exception of the Roberts) that are normally a lot hotter than the average 6.5 x 55 loads..

so there doesn't seem to be a question about the action being strong enough for it by a lot of gunsmiths...

and getting 10 reloads plus out of the brass, well that seems to not be a pressure problem for the brass..

but for guys who think those velocities are overboard... they can always carry a 270 instead...if their conscience makes them feel better about it...

The 6.5 Swede must be one of the oldest 'modern' cartridge! When was it adopted? Before or after the 7x57/8x57?

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
The 6.5 Swede must be one of the oldest 'modern' cartridge! When was it adopted? Before or after the 7x57/8x57?

After....

but what is older than all three of them is my favorite cartridge.. the 6.5 x 57...or also called the 6.5 Portugese...

quote:

After....

but what is older than all three of them is my favorite cartridge.. the 6.5 x 57...or also called the 6.5 Portugese...

Thanks. You like the 6.5x57 - great! good compromize between the 7x57 and 6.5 Swede. But just one thing - the 6.5 Portugese, that was called the 6.5x58 for some strange reason, no?

One day I want to do a compromize between the 303 Brit, 7x57 and 6.5 Swede by chambering a Lee Enfield (No4) in 6.5x57 Rimmed.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
[QUOTE]After....

But just one thing - the 6.5 Portugese, that was called the 6.5x58 for some strange reason, no?

The Portuguese 6.5 X 58mm case is similar to the 6.5X57Mauser in shape and performance , but is a little smaller in dia. and has a longer neck. roger