Scott, you ask a very good question. Depends on who you ask. Do you want an answer based on opinion or based on actual experience? Seriously, why don't you go get your own answer. You are in the perfect situation in that you own a place to hunt. Go do it and report the results. Be sure and tell us what kind of knife you used to finish the job.

TC1 posted this:

quote:

The .223 isn't the "best" choice for deer. I don't think anyone has said it was but for some reason the "anti" crowd always try to steer the discussion in that direction. It has it's limitations. Used within those limitations it's a very viable choice for deer.

Are you paying REAL CLOSE attention to what you said in the above quoted statement????????????

I am NOT anti .223 by any means and if you cannot understand that in ALL of my previous responses, your as simple minded as Carpetman1.

The only thing I have said, repeatedly, is that I SIMPLY DO NOT BELIEVE THE .223 IS THE OPTIMUM CHOICE FOR DEER HUNTING.

You said the same damn thing in the quote above!!!!!!! Carpetman1 has stated the same damn thing. Problem is if you say it or Carpetman says it, that is okay. If ANYONE else makes that same statement we are wrong, we are ANTI's.

You and Carpetman need to pull your collective heads out of your collectives asses, and re-read ALL of the responses that have been made. Few if any of us have said that a .223 WILL NOT KILL A DEER, if used within the limitations of the cartridge and the SHOOTER, people are merely saying there are better choices.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Scott, you ask a very good question. Depends on who you ask. Do you want an answer based on opinion or based on actual experience? Seriously, why don't you go get your own answer. You are in the perfect situation in that you own a place to hunt. Go do it and report the results. Be sure and tell us what kind of knife you used to finish the job.

I'm in an antler restricted county. On top of that I can only shoot a doe 4 days during the season. With those restrictions, I'm lucky to get a shot at a legal deer during the season. My land is also long, narrow and thick. For my situation, I prefer a larger caliber. I'm not very recoil sensitive. In fact recoil, doesn't even enter in to my mind when I'm about to pull the trigger on an animal.

My post was done in jest. I really don't care what anyone hunts with. I enjoy people posting about their hunting success and that includes if you shot it with a .223.

Scott--I knew your post was in jest. My answer was partly in jest, but I was serious that you should try it. Hey, four days is plenty of time to shoot a deer. I should have added don't use a .223 if the terrain is too rough to use your golf cart to go give a finishing shot. One of the naysayers saw ONE deer shot and lay there and bleat and flail and after some time did get up. Terrain was too rough for a golf cart is why a finishing shot was not given.
Idiothorse--I have never stated what you keep saying. I have stated I would buy into the not optimum, inadequate or whatever a phony expert such as yourself makes up, if someone will explain why a bullet taking out a deer's heart liver or lungs or combination thereof doesn't kill that deer. I really don't know which way you blow, you contradict yourself so often.

I am happy for anyone that kills a deer with whatever their choice of weapon. Just because I or anyone else does not agree with that choice, that does not mean the world is coming to an end.

quote:

When I hunt with my .223 there are three important things I consider; distance, presentation and shot placement. When all three things fall into place the .223 is a very effective round for whitetail deer.

EXACTLY

Just like hunting with a bow but one can take longer shots.

Some times and places just don't allow for all them to fall in place.

Thus why my use of calibers a bit more powerful most of the time.

quote:

When I hunt with my .223 there are three important things I consider; distance, presentation and shot placement. When all three things fall into place the .223 is a very effective round for whitetail deer.

BINGO. That sums it up completely, and actually applies to ANY cartridge/caliber. Just because someone/anyone is of the opinion or belief that a specific cartridge/caliber is not the BEST option, that does not mean it will not kill deer, As Long As It Is Used Within The Limitations Of The Round And The Shooter's Abilities.

quote:

When I hunt with my .223 there are three important things I consider; distance, presentation and shot placement. When all three things fall into place the .223 is a very effective round for whitetail deer.

TC1 could I get a magnum and not have to worry about all that junk?

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:

quote:

When I hunt with my .223 there are three important things I consider; distance, presentation and shot placement. When all three things fall into place the .223 is a very effective round for whitetail deer.

TC1 could I get a magnum and not have to worry about all that junk?

Presentation is less of a worry with larger calibers being able to drive bullets through more muscle and bone is an advantage.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:



I am NOT anti .223 by any means and if you cannot understand that in ALL of my previous responses, your as simple minded as Carpetman1.

When you make a statment like that, using correct grammer really helps.

quote:

TC1 could I get a magnum and not have to worry about all that junk?

Yes, ass shots and small saplings will no longer be of any concern. Your enjoyment of this sport and your harvest rate will increase tremendously.
(humor)

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
In Alaska you always hear you need bear protection. I lived in Alaska two years myself and never found that need.

Of course I make no claim to be as intrepid as you. I suppose it all depends on the places one frequents. Where I spent the summer and the places I go, I feel much better carrying a big bore. I spent a lot of time in Sept and early October neck deep in blueberry bushes. Everywhere I looked there were signs that brown bears had passed through recently - broken and bent branches, bear shit. In fact I would see one or several bears almost every outing, mostly from the truck on the way out or back. In early May, there was a large male dark brown bear in my neighborhood every day eating the fresh spring salad. Fortunately he wasn’t a trouble maker, and when he would see me he would just walk off into the dark timber and vanish - until dusk or dawn, tomorrow. I'm sure he ruled the night, invizible.

IMO, it would be foolish to go into the bush on Chichagof Island AK unarmed or worse yet, inadequately armed.

KB

Kabluey Do you carry a fly swatter or bug spray in case of wasps or bees? Certainly if the terrain is too rough to make an escape on your golf cart the need for a large rifle would increase.

If I were an antler hunter I might consider a poor presentation shot, but I'm not, so I pass on those shots regardless of how big the gun.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
If I were an antler hunter I might consider a poor presentation shot, but I'm not, so I pass on those shots regardless of how big the gun.

roger

quote:

using correct grammer really helps.

If I were you, I would not worry about another persons GRAMMAR, since you don't even know how to spell the word correctly it.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

using correct grammer really helps.

If I were you, I would not worry about another persons GRAMMAR, since you don't even know how to spell the word correctly it.

It went right over your head, as usual.

What a guy really needs is a .300 Win Mag in AR.

I wish the guy that posted about twenty some odd well aimed shots would log on. Probably running up the bs flag on someone.

I have seen the 222, 223 and 22-250 used on a lot of deer, Antelope, in the USA, and on hundreds of PG animals in Africa on cull hunts..Its perfectly suitable when used properly and within its perimeters..If one can shoot, and keep the range reasonable then its as good as anything else...

If one hunts where hunting conditions are hard, and animals are wild and elusive, its probably not suitable for most hunters..

I recall an elderly Idaho rancher and his wife who for 20 years shot all their elk by the haystack 50 yards behind the house. They shot them from the kitchen widow with a carbine 22-250 and Rem factory ammo....all heart lung shots, the elk fell down dead every time.

Its not always about caliber, its about shot placement, bullet construction and being mature enough and calm enough to know when to pull the trigger and when not to..I would say maturity is the leading factor in not wounding with lesser calibers, the ability not to shoot is more important than your ability to shot in many cases. If you cannot do this, and many cannot, then you need more gun perhaps, or better yet you need to stay home.

I shot all my first elk as a kid with a 25-35 Win. and most everyone in camp had a 30-30, 300 Savage, 250-3000 and an ocassional 30-40 Krag..I know a lot of ranchers who during the great depression fed their family deer shot with a 22 L.R. I don't recommend this but it can be done, but first you must learn to hunt and shoot.

Today I use a .338 Win mostly for elk, and a 30-06 for deer, but if I had to I would do as well with a 222 by simply changing the way I hunted them.

Thank You Sir for your input. As you pointed out, it all comes down to proper bullet placement and to using the proper bullet.

You know just as well as any of the rest of us 50 or older, a properly placed shot with a .22 LR will kill a deer. However the various state Game & Fish departments have determined that .22 LR firearms are not appropriate for such situations.

The points I nave been trying to make is two fold. One, while the.223 can and does kill deer on an annual basis, not everyone believes it is the best choice, and two, none of the respondents claim to be ANTI .223.

The problem is not, nor has it ever been, "killing" a deer with a .223. I believe we can all agree that a deer shot with a .223 is going to die unless shot in a leg or similar.

The problem is finding deer shot with a .223. If they run at all (and most often they do...) there is virtually no blood trail to follow.

I speak from experience. After the second year in a row spending hours looking for does shot through the engine room with a .223 and Nosler 60-grain Partitions, I threatened to turn my buddy's rifle into a singletree and hang it around his neck if he ever shot another deer with his beloved .223!

NOW let Ray the carpet layer squeal. I won't hear it: I have him on ignore.

And don't get smug, CHC: you are right there beside him...

Doubless,
Much like a Democrat, if it doesn't suit your agenda, then it must be wrong and the art of conversation goes on ignore..I'd hate to live in a country where free speech and choice is as closed door as yours...

IMO a Noser partition is best suited to calibers of 284 and up..For the hot 22s the 60 gr. Hornady either sp or hp, seem to give you a very high number of instant kills.

Energizer Bunny Topic....

Wouldn't mind seeing what those Raptors would do out of my 6x45.

quote:

And don't get smug, CHC: you are right there beside him

Your having me on ignore is just about as meaningless as a rat fart.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
The problem is not, nor has it ever been, "killing" a deer with a .223. I believe we can all agree that a deer shot with a .223 is going to die unless shot in a leg or similar.

The problem is finding deer shot with a .223. If they run at all (and most often they do...) there is virtually no blood trail to follow.

I speak from experience. After the second year in a row spending hours looking for does shot through the engine room with a .223 and Nosler 60-grain Partitions, I threatened to turn my buddy's rifle into a singletree and hang it around his neck if he ever shot another deer with his beloved .223!

NOW let Ray the carpet layer squeal. I won't hear it: I have him on ignore.

And don't get smug, CHC: you are right there beside him...

Perhaps so. But where does this get the bow hunters?

I honestly don't know. But it seems to me that precious few deer are DRT when hit by an arrow.

IF my understanding of a deer's reaction to being hit by a broadhead is correct . . . is that any "worse" than being hit by a properly-constructed .223 bullet in the same place?

DAmmit, I done went and chewed on doubless and he was talking about another Ray...Oh well I will stand by my statement and defend with my life Crazyhorses' right to free speech, the use of any rifle he wants in any caliber as long as it legal and would probably turn my back if it was less than legal..I mean if the Feds can ignore Marihuana laws, I can let Crazyhorse use a 22 L.R. or is my thinking miffed!

Ray A, my feelin's is definitely hurt, and my ego is bruised beyond repair...

BL, you raise a very prudent question. The difference, at least in my mind, is that an arrow, IF it completely penetrates and exits, will leave a hole of somewhere around 1-1/2", which should allow plenty of blood out and cold air in. Not so with a Partition or similar in the 223. They are controlled expansion, and the exit hole is just not that big.

If, on the other hand, however, the arrow doesn't completely penetrate, the end result, at least to me, is quite similar to what you suggested.

And although I haven't done it with my 22-250 yet and may not at all, I am told that a 22-250 and a normal cup and core bullet is typically DRT, with internal damage like the animal ate a hand grenade. I am told the hydrostatic shock is simply too much for the deer to take. But again, I haven't seen it, and probably won't.

I have lost a total of three deer in my life due to a combination of poor shot placement and poor bullet construction, and my father lost another. There is, to me at least, no excuse for not doing everything I can to ensure prompt dispatch and responsible recovery of anything I shoot. I don't need to stack the deck against me with a small caliber that requires almost perfect conditions to accomplish what I expect of myself.

But as I have said repeatedly: quite often, I am the outlier in these conversations...