quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Take a look at my first post.

Let me put it to you this way; no self-respecting sportsman would shot a big game animal with a bulet engineered for varmint hunting.

Again your opinion, but still no experience. Nice try though.

I've seen this way way way too many times to think it's a fluke.....the .243 (6mm Rem) kills deer out of all respect to it's size......it's a very fine cartridge for the task of deer and pronghorns.......and possibly larger stuff as well.

It'd be a fine addition to a plains game safari as mostly 60% of all game in Africa is the size of deer.....such as Impala etc...

Of the deer taken that I've witnessed the 100 grain bullet was used exclusively.

Teancum:

I've shared a lease with a guy that enjoyed shooting big game with bullets designed for varmint hunting. In fact, he was very proud of himself as well for performing that feat. Myself and other members helped him track down wounded game to a point that he was kicked-off the lease for this stunt. I've seen the soup-bowl size flesh wound that a failed varmint bullet creates on a big game animal.

Call the bullet manufactures and see what they say about you shooting big game with the bullets they design for varmint hunting and post the results of those discussions.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

I've shared a lease with a guy that enjoyed shooting big game with bullets designed for varmint hunting. In fact, he was very proud of himself as well for performing that feat. Myself and other members helped him track down wounded game to a point that he was kicked-off the lease for this stunt. I've seen the soup-bowl size flesh wound that a failed varmint bullet creates on a big game animal.

Call the bullet manufactures and see what they say about you shooting big game with the bullets they design for varmint hunting and post the results of those discussions.

There you go, finally a comment about your experience, well done.

Teancum:

My experience was stated in my first post. Now, waiting for your post regading discussions with bullet manufactures. I'm keen to here their comments regarding your use of varmint design bullets on big game.

1 moose, 2 dall rams, a couple dz caribou,lots of deer, and 2 wolves. All with 100gr Hornady sp pts.

If they shoot 600 pound elk with a 30-06,
Then we could shoot 400 pound elk with a 243.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

My experience was stated in my first post. Now, waiting for your post regading discussions with bullet manufactures. I'm keen to here their comments regarding your use of varmint design bullets on big game.

Actually if you reread your first post you will find that there is no experience or evidence presented just your opinion. WAIT NO MORE! I did call up Nosler and talk to their customer service department to a staffer there and he told me that the offical policy of Nosler was to recommend their Partion bullet for all big game hunting. I then told him of my plans and he said and I quote "off the record that if I used the BT bullets at longer distances I would find the performance to be just fine, but don't call me back to tell me you shot a critter in the shoulder blade at 50 yards" I'm glad you reminded me to add this comment, thanks a lot!!!!!

The 243 will most certainly kill any deer at any reasonable distance with any adequate bullet.

However, I still don't like it. I've seen too many "dead" deer running for a very long distance after being hit in the kill zone with a 243 and a 95 grain or larger bullet.

With the endless variables that occur in the hunting field, I'd rather shoot something larger based on what I've seen.

I think a 270 with a 110 TSX is a superior choice to a 243 with a 100 grain bullet, and recoil feels the same.

My personal minimal deer caliber is .25....just my preference.

FWIW, I've seen a 22-250 with partition bullets do a better job on deer than the 243, and I cannot explain why that is. I know a smith out west that uses a 22-6mm on deer/antelope and he says in his experience, it works much better than the 243.

Teancum:

Your post states you shot deer at 70 yards with varmint bullets.

What is the Nosler staffer's name? I'm going to call and verify your conversation.

Waiting.........

The 243 can and will kill big game. I have done it and many other posters have already said the same thing. I have not hunted with a 243 for big game in many years as I personally feel that unless you have a perfect shot at the important parts of the animal you may not be able to take shots at odd angles. I want a gun that will drive a bullet home from any angle and position.

I do kill lots of whitetail does and fawns on crop damage permits and my favorite gun is the same gun I use for groundhogs, a 243, 6-24 scope, and 75gr V max bullets that will put 3 rounds into a dime sized group at 200 yards. I only take head and neck shots under near perfect conditions and it kills them dead in the tracks. I need to say again that I do not consider this hunting but more as shooting. If I pass on a doe with a crop damage permit it makes little difference to me but if I am seriously hunting for a trophy animals I want a bigger gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Your post states you shot deer at 70 yards with varmint bullets.

What is the Nosler staffer's name? I'm going to call and verify your conversation.

Waiting.........

Sorry did not get name of individual but keep on waiting!!!!

Teancum:

Varmint hunters have need of special designed bullets. They are looking for fragile bullets that withstand high velocity but explode on impact in order to avoid ricochets. In fact, varmint bullets can come apart in flight with too tight of a barrel twist from centrifugal force because of thin jackets. Bullet manufactures do not recommend varmint bullets for big game. Any inexperienced hunter on this forum should be aware of the importance of selecting the right bullet for the game being hunted.

If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Varmint hunters have need of special designed bullets. They are looking for fragile bullets that withstand high velocity but explode on impact in order to avoid ricochets. In fact, varmint bullets can come apart in flight with too tight of a barrel twist from centrifugal force because of thin jackets. Bullet manufactures do not recommend varmint bullets for big game. Any inexperienced hunter on this forum should be aware of the importance of selecting the right bullet for the game being hunted.

If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you.

Oh but I did talk to Nosler and followed their advice to a "T". The 70 yard shot was a head shot. 70 yards - steady rest - accruate rifle - dead dead dead. Face it you don't like anyone to have a deferent opionin than yours. Sorry!!!! You may think that you need to use a .375 on elk as the minimum caliber while most of the posters on this board would disagree especially me!!!

My marine corps sniper buddy Vance passed away last year, Agent Orange finally killed him. He got two boxes of 90gr VLD bullets from me and loaded them in tang-safety rugger 243 Varmint Rifles he and his two sons owned. He found one load that shot under an inch at 100yds and just loaded that one load. Every year for 17 years they each shot an antelope, a muley buck, a whitetail, and black bears in the fall hunts. Only one time did I hear from him that any of them needed a second shot. He drew a Bighorn Sheep tag and had to shoot his ram a second time to keep it from staggering over a cliff. My niece is 13.5 years old, 5'4" and 107lbs. I bought her a very nice rugger mannlicher stocked carbine after she admired several FS rifles at a gunshow last spring. .243. I loaded 90gr PT's to just over 3000fps and 3-shot groups in the 1.25" range at 100yds. Opening Day, 140 yards, 28" muley buck broadside...broke a rib, Bang-Flop-Dead, one shot. She is killing coyotes out to 300 yards now with the rifle. Seventeen to date, and none needed a second shot with a 70gr BT about 3200fps. She will probably never move up...this one works.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Teancum:

You did not talk with Nosler. They do not endorse their varmint bullets for big game.

Teancum:

What is your opinion why bullet manufactures make a destinction between thier "big game hunting" bullets and "varmint" bullets?

Do you understand there is a difference?

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

You did not talk with Nosler. They do not endorse their varmint bullets for big game.

Wrong again!!!!!!! I did talk to Nosler, whether you believe it or not is immaterial to me. That phone call was around 2-3 years ago and I had no reason to remember the staffers name. Sorry again!!!!! If you will go back a couple of postings you will find that I quoted him after he said "Off the record" I realize this is hard for you to have someone disagree with your opinion but with more practice I'm sure you can overcome it. Good Luck

Teancum:

Best for you to call again and get a mini-seminar on selecting bullets for the game you are intending to hunt.

Hopefully you aren't providing advice to unsuspecting hunters that don't know any better. There are technical resons why bullet manufactures do not endorse their varmint bullets for big game. And, there are ethical reasons why responsible hunters should heed the manufactures guidelines.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Best for you to call again and get a mini-seminar on selecting bullets for the game you are intending to hunt.

Hopefully you aren't providing advice to unsuspecting hunters that don't know any better. There are technical resons why bullet manufactures do not endorse their varmint bullets for big game. And, there are ethical reasons why responsible hunters should heed the manufactures guidelines.

That's funny!!!!!!! Let me understand your position, it's kind of "Let me tell what I think is ethical for you". Nice try and here's hoping others disagree with your opinions. My opinions and EXPERIENCE are available to all that ask.

(in my best 'director's voice')....


AND CUT! it's a rap.

Teancum:

You're not funny and I don't want your opinion nor any advice from you. You are a detriment. Call Nosler and get educated on their engineering before you offer public comments.

Ok, now you've done gon' and hurt my feelins. Here's hoping many disagree with your opinions.

Teancum:

You've already hoped that several times. You've tried to change the subject. You've lied about contacting Nosler. Hopefully you have NOT influenced an inexperience hunter to start hunting big game with varmint designed bullets.

Regulations are in place regarding minimum caliber for use on game. Bullet manufactures provide design criteria for their bullet applications. There are technical resons for this. Call Nosler and ask them for a seminar.

Nosler actually lists the 95 grn Ballistic tip as a hunting bullet for deer sized game not as a varmint bullet. I shoot them myself. I dont know how they differ from the lighter ones (besides weight) but I do know that they shoot and peform well.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

You've already hoped that several times. You've tried to change the subject. You've lied about contacting Nosler. Hopefully you have NOT influenced an inexperience hunter to start hunting big game with varmint designed bullets.

Regulations are in place regarding minimum caliber for use on game. Bullet manufactures provide design criteria for their bullet applications. There are technical resons for this. Call Nosler and ask them for a seminar.

I know this bothers you a lot but ........ you're wrong again. I know that must be disheartening, but I did not lie about contacting Nosler and a .243 is above the minimum caliber requirements here in Idaho. Actually a .224 is legal provided it is not a rimfire. Adios

Teancum:

Contact Nosler now and talk with them about varmint designed bullets and your use of varmint designed bullets for hunting big game. Listen carefully to what the Nosler representative has to say to you then post the results of that conversation here on AR along with the Nosler representatives name and telephone number.

No more difficult than that.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Teancum:

Varmint hunters have need of special designed bullets. They are looking for fragile bullets that withstand high velocity but explode on impact in order to avoid ricochets. In fact, varmint bullets can come apart in flight with too tight of a barrel twist from centrifugal force because of thin jackets. Bullet manufactures do not recommend varmint bullets for big game. Any inexperienced hunter on this forum should be aware of the importance of selecting the right bullet for the game being hunted.

If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you.

OH OH another embarassing comment!!! You lied about the varmint bullets coming apart in flight!! If you had talked with Nosler they would have explained this to you. You are a detriment. Call Nosler and get educated on their engineering before you offer public comments. Hopefully you aren't providing advice to unsuspecting hunters that don't know any better. Go to the Nosler web page on Ballistic Tip Varmint and you will find the following information:

"Go ahead, drive 'em out of that Swift as fast as you can. You won't find any speed limits on these bullets to slow you down. Ballistic Tip Varmint bullets thrive on ultra-high velocity loads." Later "The heavy jacket base prevents bullet defromation during firing" and still later "Minimum Impact velocity: 1600 fps; Maximum Impact Velocity: UNLIMITED"

As you can see not everyone agrees with your opinions but we all can have one. So long my friend and happy hunting.

Teancum:

You need to add rifle twist into the equation of bullet design, bullet weight, and velocity. A little information is dangerous to you Teancum. Quit reading Nosler marketing material and call their technical support group for educational purposes.