I'm going to rebarrel a Rem 700 ADL. I use a 300 win for large game and have a 223 for varmints. I'm considering something in between with light recoil and good potential accuracy for some bench rest shooting, but big enough to take down a deer or antelope. What kind of potential acuaracy can I expect from a 243 Win? Is it a viable target round?
Posts: 130 | Location: Montana | Registered: 08 October 2003
Elkhntr, With a good load you should be able to get avg. groups of around 1/2moa with the 243 or 6mmREM, some may creep into 1/4moa range on occasion, like my 6mm does, but most will be about 3/8" to 1/2moa, Jay
Posts: 1745 | Location: WI. | Registered: 19 May 2003
Elk, For a lite recoil and good accuracy it is very hard to beat the .243 and if you are going to put a top grade custom barrel on it all the better and have the action trued and blue printed and you should be able to hit dimes at 200 yards. Good Luck
If I already had a .223 for varmints, I'd choose the .260 Rem over the .243 for antelope and deer. The .243 is great for large varmints and antelope-sized game, and is capable on smaller deer. The .260 matches the .243 on the smaller game, is much better on the larger deer, and can even take you into elk and moose territory if you decide to move up.
Posts: 1079 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 26 May 2002
I am really looking for a light recoil rifle for my son\wife to shoot when hunting deer, and something I can use to punch targets with reasonable accuracy. I dont plan to spend a lot of money on the conversion. I'm probably going to buy a factory take off barrel and put it on my 30-06 action. A caliber that would require few changes to the existing bolt would be nice.
How does the recoil of a 260 compare to a 243? My wife did not like shooting my 30-06. The recoil made her flinch, even with 150 grain bullets and a decelerator pad. I thought about loading it down, but we need a cartridge with a fairly flat trajectory for antelope.
Is the 25-06 a viable option? I have lots of 30-06 brass I could use with this cartridge.
Posts: 130 | Location: Montana | Registered: 08 October 2003
Recoil is very modest in the .260 Rem. I don't think you'd see a noticeable difference in recoil between the two using 95-100 grain bullets in the .243 Win vs. 100-125-grain bullets in the .260 Rem.
The .25-06 is certainly an option in a .30-06 length action, but because you'll be burning more powder you'll likely have more recoil than the .260. I think you'll find better bullets in the 6.5mm class for target work compared to .25 caliber.
And while the .25 caliber extends the bullet weight range above the top limit of 100 grains for the .243 up to around 117-120 grains, the 6.5mm caliber can take you up to 160 grains.
To my thinking, if you're going with a .30-06-based case you might as well go to a .270 instead of the .25-06 for more versatility with similar recoil, with bullet weights from 100 grains to 160 grains.
Since you have the 223, there is no need to cover varmints with your deer rifle, and a 6.5 MM light rifle makes sense. I assume your interest in target work indicates some handloading, so the 243 and 260 are about equal out to 300 yards in the accuracy dept on a calm day, but the 260 will punch tighter groups due to less drift.
A nice light recoiling deer load would include the Nosler 100 gr Partition in from of 41 grs of IMR 4064 at 3135 fps. This is less powder than it takes for the 243 to reach 3050 fps with the same bullet weight, so recoil is actually less in the 260. You can, of course, go all the way to 160 grs if the deer get big or the cover brushy. Just make sure you get a 1 in 8 twist for the 260 so you can go heavy with good stability and also punch paper with those long, 6.5MM target bullets.
Posts: 1111 | Location: Afton, VA | Registered: 31 May 2003
Based on your statement that your wife did not like the recoil of a 30-06 it appears she is recoil sensitive. Please take a look at the 6mm Bench Rest Remington. It is a extremely well designed and very efficient cartridge and is not intimidating in appearance. Accuracy is a given and if you can use a 1 in 12 twist barrel which will stabilize up to 90 grain bullets. It will effectively kill deer with greater accuracy and less recoil than the 308 based cartridges ( I know this will draw heat from the 243 / 260 crowd ). This cartridge is getting quite a few converts with the 85 grain partitions or other premium 80 to 90 grain bullets. With a properly chambered and throated premium barrel, Lapua brass and Wilson or Redding dies it will fulfill all of your requirements for a TRUE target rifle as well. Accuracy will be amazing and recoil is minimal for the performance. Deer hunters in the Upper East and here in Alabama and deep south have "discovered" this cartridge and it's potential on game up to Deer size at ranges up to 300 yards. I personally use a 6 mmppc for Alabama deer from a tree stand. I don't shot beyond 150 - 200 yards due to hunting in hard woods and the slightly smaller 6 PPC is equally as deadly at these ranges. Watch out trying to shoot the lightest to heaviest bullets accurately in one barrel as throating becomes an issue. A barrel set up to shoot a 160 grain 6.5 mm will not shoot a 100 grainer as accurately as a barrel throated for a 100. Talk to a true benchrest gunsmith for a more in depth explanation.
[ 10-18-2003, 21:16: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]
Posts: 230 | Location: Alabama; USA | Registered: 18 May 2003
Does anyone know of a good source for reasonably priced barrels? I think the 260 will fit my needs best. What kind of accuracy can I expect from a factory barrel with good bedding?
Posts: 130 | Location: Montana | Registered: 08 October 2003
If you can go $150 or so, Adams and Bennett seems to get great reviews at the Midway sweb site, and they frequently have A&B sales there...I just got a 358 Win bbl from them on sale for $124. Again, double check that twist rate and look for 1 in 8 or better.
Posts: 1111 | Location: Afton, VA | Registered: 31 May 2003
If the primary purpose is to punch paper, I'd pick a 6BR. If deer is reasonably high on the list, I'd pick a 7br, unless the deer are small whitetail type critters. There are few things more fun that shooting tiny groups on paper, and it is a lot easier and fun to do with a cartridge that has ready made brass, as well as all the accuracy goodies the bench rest crowd uses. JMO, Dutch.
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000
Elkhntr, I agree with Boilerroom on the 25-06 if you are using a long action Rem-700. If you handload, try the Sierra 90gr HPBT for deer/antelope. This particular bullet is not as explosive as you might think and works quite well on deer/antelope sized game. Good luck.
Another vote here for the .260rem. in a short action. If you have a long action, then a 6.5x55. The 6.5s offer a great supply of match bullets for target work & are a bit better for shots @ deer size game (IMHO). Recoil is almost none existent even in a very light rifle.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
Man you are going to have to run long and hard to beat the 6.5mm Swede for what you want. Long history of accuracy and is one of the great deer cartridges going today. In my opinion the .260 Remington has nothing over the Swede, in fact the Swede is the better of the two. Ammo available world wide. Go with the 6.5mm Swede and you'll never regret it. Lawdog
Posts: 1254 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 22 December 2002
Is the 6.5 Swede as accurate as the 260? Can I use the existing bolt from my 30-06 with this round? Will it fit and cycle properly in a long action? How about the 25-06? Can I change the barrel and use the existing bolt etc?
I would like to use a 6.5mm instead of a 25 caliber because of it's higher sectional density and BC's. It's also got a better range of target bullets, but I can get a factory 25-06 barrel pretty cheaply. This is a low dollar project. If I need to make a lot of changes I'm better off buying a new rifle and selling the old one.
Posts: 130 | Location: Montana | Registered: 08 October 2003
I'm glad CLL brought up the 257 Roberts. That's the next in line for me. It fills the gap between my 300WinMag and 223 very nicely (actually a little too nicely, making another sub 30cal piece harder to justify...)
If your wife is uncomfortable with an 06 shooting 150gr stuff the various 6.5mm options might be a little too close to her recoil threshold. The 257, with its 120gr limit should avoid that. And bullet choice should not be a problem. Nosler has a few Partitions for game and Sierra has a MatchKing. I don't konw about other makers, but I'm confident they have some 25cal options as well.
I already decided against a 25-06. More powder than needed behind a light bullet.
Posts: 557 | Location: Various... | Registered: 29 December 2002
A 6.5mm Swede can be made to shoot as well as the 260. If you have an 06 and you want something on that action with a simple rebarrel then I agree with the 25-06 route. You can always download it to a comfortable level and work up over time. Remember that just because it can shoot at 3,300 fps does not mean it can not be shot at 2,700 fps or even 1,700 fps if the correct powder and load is chosen. If you really have to have a 6.5 mm then I would get a 260 Rem. barrel and rechamber it to an SAAMI minimum spec 6.5-06 chamber. A GOOD gunsmith should do this trick for about $50 - $75. Make sure the barrel is properly re-marked. Now you have an 06 length cartridge, good taper for feeding and extraction and a long neck for those long bullets. ( Now listen to the .260 Rem folks scream foul ).
[ 10-21-2003, 08:29: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]
Posts: 230 | Location: Alabama; USA | Registered: 18 May 2003
260 Remington is the ticket. My wife has a 260 in a Browning rifle. Very accurate, lite recoil, lots of very good bullets for game and paper. Christensen Arms has Remington take off barrels for 35-$45. With the long action you can seat the bullets out in the 260 and get a bit more accuracy. The 6.5x55 will NOT work on a 30-06 bolt face with out some bolt face work. The 25-06 will have more recoil, far less bullet selection for target work and not near as accurate as the 260. I think I covered all your questions.... JTP
. Just take a look at all the records the 6.5 Swede has set that the .260 is still trying to break. The question should be can the .260 be made to shoot as accurately as the 6.5mm Swede. My wife shoots a 6.5mm Swede and has used it for everything from targets to moose. No problem and groups at or under 1/2" are not uncommon. Hers is made on a civilian M98 action that started out life as a .270 until a fool ruined it by cutting the barrel to 20” and then was unhappy with the results. Go with the 6.5mm Swede it is still one of the best target cartridges going today. Lawdog
Posts: 1254 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 22 December 2002
How about the 6.5-06? Is this an accurate cartridge? I am guessing that it wont live up to the 260. The 308 is usually considered more accurate than the 30-06 so I'm assuming the acuracy potential of the 260 would be greater than a 6.5-06. It should work in my 30-06 without modifying the bolt. It's a little steep in the recoil department, but I could load it down to 260 Rem velocity.
Can I use the 260 in a long action rifle? How much work would need to be done to the magazine etc.. to ensure that it would feed well in a longer action?
Posts: 130 | Location: Montana | Registered: 08 October 2003
I believe that most would say a 260 or a 6.5 -06 in a non-benchrest rifle will have about the same accuracy potential; particularly in a factory barrel. Most would say the 25-06 or 6.5-06 has a higher flexibility potential vs a .260 due to the higher case capacity and the longer neck. You have a 2.5 inch Action so the lighter weight / short throw advantage arguement of a 2.0 inch case is moot here. The action is set up for the basic 06 case. But; You may want to rethink having to do anything as the 30-06 can be very easily downloaded to achieve a practically non-existant recoil level with either Accurate arms XMP-5744 or IMR-SR4759 and still be VERY accurate. I shoot alot of rounds in the 1,600 to 2,000 fps range that consistantly group +/- 1/2 inch in low wind conditions. With the 100 - 110 grainers it can make an excellent varmint gun as well. The key is loading bullet weight and velocity combined to achieve a desired result. I have loaded for 30-06's for thirty years and have found it to be both a very flexible case and an excellent bullet diameter for choice of bullets and powders that work well.
Posts: 230 | Location: Alabama; USA | Registered: 18 May 2003
elkhntr, there are as many opinions and ideas as there are people!! here goes mine. 25/06 is my suggestion(choice). however, if this is to be a dual purpose rifle i would go with a premium barrel. once again my choice would be an air-guaged XX douglas. i would use a #5 taper. it might be just a bit heavier than the wife would prefer but not too heavy. if you use a sporter weight barrel in any caliber you will limit the #of rounds that you can shoot efficiently in a range session. i would also use a 26" barrel. how many times will the wife hunt compared to the # of range sessions in a year? just my two cents. good luck and good shooting!!!!!
Posts: 34 | Location: sebring,fl | Registered: 11 June 2003
I'd be inclined to go with the .260Rem. It's an inherently accurate cartridge as are all the calibers based on the .308Win. Recoil is mild, and the range of bullet selection is wide. Whatever is true for the .260Rem. is also true for the 6.5x55 except it's not based on the .308Win. case. You won't go wrong either way. Best wishes.
The .243 is very accurate, my sporter weight barrel can average .5 moa or less with 70gr to 100gr bullets. The 100gr Hornady's at 3000fps do a good job on deer.
I think a .257 Ackley would be the best though. I have a .257 Roberts on a small ring Mauser, so I don't really push it, but it averages .75 moa with 75 gr to 117gr bullets.
[ 11-10-2003, 17:33: Message edited by: Major Caliber ]
Posts: 3097 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 28 November 2001
quote:Originally posted by Old & Slow: Based on your statement that your wife did not like the recoil of a 30-06 it appears she is recoil sensitive. Please take a look at the 6mm Bench Rest Remington. It is a extremely well designed and very efficient cartridge and is not intimidating in appearance. Accuracy is a given and if you can use a 1 in 12 twist barrel which will stabilize up to 90 grain bullets. It will effectively kill deer with greater accuracy and less recoil than the 308 based cartridges ( I know this will draw heat from the 243 / 260 crowd ). This cartridge is getting quite a few converts with the 85 grain partitions or other premium 80 to 90 grain bullets. With a properly chambered and throated premium barrel, Lapua brass and Wilson or Redding dies it will fulfill all of your requirements for a TRUE target rifle as well. Accuracy will be amazing and recoil is minimal for the performance. Deer hunters in the Upper East and here in Alabama and deep south have "discovered" this cartridge and it's potential on game up to Deer size at ranges up to 300 yards. I personally use a 6 mmppc for Alabama deer from a tree stand. I don't shot beyond 150 - 200 yards due to hunting in hard woods and the slightly smaller 6 PPC is equally as deadly at these ranges. Watch out trying to shoot the lightest to heaviest bullets accurately in one barrel as throating becomes an issue. A barrel set up to shoot a 160 grain 6.5 mm will not shoot a 100 grainer as accurately as a barrel throated for a 100. Talk to a true benchrest gunsmith for a more in depth explanation.
I'm very interested in the 6mm Benchrest for the reasons you describe. Can you give the details of your rifle?
don't mess with a good and sorted 30-06, they are too few and too valuable. to me, its about the most versatile cartridge around, mostly because of all the ammunition available, but also because the bottom DOESN'T fall out of it like the 308s at big distances and with big bullets (I know that's a loaded statement... you don't need to remind me).
the 260 is a good load, probably the best use of the .308 case IMO, so look to pass that well-sorted -06 on to someone who can use it and get a gun made for the cartridge you select.
there are a lot of great suggestions, and I'm not sure any one is better than the others. To me, cost and availability of ammunition is a big part of the equation, so I would look to the more common chamberings for those (260 gains some credibility here).
now, if you are interested, I have an ADL in 25-06 that I've been trying to unload for some time... email me if you are interested in a trade...
I'll jump on the 25-06 bandwagon here too, for what you are wanting. If you are not doing the work yourself it would be cheaper and simpler to trade rifles, unless there is sentimental value in this one. However, for a target-varmint-deer cartridge that you can buy ammo for it would be hard to beat, and you can load them up or down to suit your needs.
Posts: 7774 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
HondoJohn, Have you had experience with that 90 grain Sierra? I posted that question about using that bullet on deer and got mostly negative answers. I just bought a Browning A bolt in 25-06 and was using the 90 grains to break in the barrel. I used 45 grains of IMR 4895 and got 20 shots in 1.25 inches at 100 yards! One big hole. I'm a little leary about its use on Whitetails though? Any real knowledge about its performance would be appreciated.
Bob257
Posts: 434 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 22 November 2002
I agree with some others about the 260 ( I have one in a Remington Mountain rifle) and also the 257 Roberts. I have one in a ADL that was restocked. Both shoot extremely well with little recoil.
Bob257
Posts: 434 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 22 November 2002
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