For the .222 Remington? I've done a site search. It pulled up dated material. Doesn't anyone shoot the Triple Deuce?

I used to be an exclusive big game hunter. I'm passed up many a shot on coyotes while pursuing huge racks. It might just be that I'm maturing (becoming wiser), or it could be that I've got a lotta free time.

Since I was knee high to someone taller, I've known of the prowess and legendary accuracy of the magnificent .222 Rem. It's not that I've neglected the .222 Rem; it's that I didn't have time to screw around with cartridges that weren't suitable big racked animals. But I've always respected the .222 Rem.

I've gotten dialed in to a Sauer 100 .222 Rem. Due to a shipping mishap, I won't get her until sometime this week. I can't wait. She's blued steel and wood. Yep, I'm old school. I'm already thinking of an Anschutz 1771 .222 Rem. I might have to Ebay a child to afford it, but I figure that I can email a kid living with an adopted family ;-)

I know theory & I know reality. When I was younger and listening to then old schoolers regaling around crackling campfires, I heard accounts of the .222 Rem dropping big game in their tracks with between eyes shots. I'm sure much was embellished, but the accuracy and efficiency of the mystical .222 Rem remained imbued upon my developing gray matter.

I'm all dialed in except for my new rifle and a set of Warne bases and rings, the latter on order. I should get 'em in a month or less. That's gonna give me research time before I commence to sending bullets down range.

I've got 300 rounds of Norma brass, a brick of Fed 205M primers, a quarter-grand of 50 grain Hornady V-Max bullets (the Sauer 100 .222 Rem has a 1:12 twist), and a pound of IMR 4198. Apparently, IMR-4198 is to the .222 Rem as H-4831 is to the .270 Win. However, VV N-133 might be better .222 Rem powder. I don't know.

I had bought a set of Forster tricked out dies. My intent was to maximize accuracy. After purchasing, the vendor told me I'd have to wait until Feb '19 for delivery. Screw that. I canceled that order & now have in my possession a set of RCBS Gold Medal dies.

If I get her dialed in to tiny groups, I'm gonna buy a predator call (Foxpro Shockwave? Recommendations?) & get busy.

I used to hunt with a very close friend (I used to view him as my 2nd dad.) who's now in Heaven. He hunted with a 7MM Rem Mag. He told me that the "MM" of 7MM stood for mighty miss, meaning a speeding bullet is useless if it ain't accurate. Hence, I load for accuracy.

I've read the RL-7, IMR 3031, and others are good bullet pushers for the .222 Rem. But I'm all over accuracy. I've also read tables that have indicated that the .222 Rem is most accurate when operated at close to max velocity.

I have loading manuals, all dated. My most often used is Ken Waters's Pet Loads. Waters tested loads in the real world, not laboratories. I always zero in on his most accurate loads tested.

I don't rely upon loading manuals. I never have. I'll begin with a very safe powder charge & work up until I get very tiny groups & stop. Then I'll chrono for ballistic purposes. I'm good with others who rely exclusively upon manuals. But we don't hunt in laboratories. We hunt in the real world. Each rifle (used to be) different. For instance, one .270 Win might reveal 58 grins of H-4831 as max while another might reveal 62 grains as max. I have no clue of what my two .270 Win rifles' max would be. I've stopped at 60 grains of H-4831. It'll shoot .25" @ a hundred outta both. I don't mess with success. And another 100 FPS ain't gonna compensate for bad shooting.

The best loading tips I've gotten has been from other hunters and shooters. They know. They've used loads with success. I'll reduce charges and see what happens. If recommended loads show promise, I'll experiment with recommended components.

So, compadres of the .222 Rem, where should I start? Am I at the alpha and omega of .222 powder with IMR-4198?

I ain't askin' for much, alls I wants is cloverleaf groups ;-)

Has anyone used the .222 Rem on pint-size big game? I've read about .224 caliber rifles used to tag coues & blacktail deer. I'm assuming that that's the intent of the .224 60 grain Partition. I've also read of .224 caliber rifles used to take feral pigs, especially in the Lone Star State.

I get excellent accuracy from H4198 and 40 grain ballistic tips, in my 222.

I shoot a Sako Rhimaki in .222 Rem, and just love it. It’s a full stock rifle and shoots all three rounds touching at 100 yards using factory ammo. A very classic rifle and caliber.

Thanks, guys, I really appreciate your help.

Somewhere in cyberspace there's gotta be a Website dedicated to the Triple Deuce.

From my limited Triple Deuce knowledge, 1:14 is/was the industry standard .222 Rem twist rate. My rifle has a 1:12 twist. Its short twist caused me to think that maybe I oughta start with 50 grainers. Was that a good thought? The reality is that within my capabilities and the cartridge's capabilities, I figure 300 yards would be about max shooting distance, especially in the Rockies where gusts can appear outta nowhere. At that distance, a coyote ain't gonna know what grain bullet terminated its fawn dining plans. I'd be good going with 40 grainers, whatever's most accurate.

I have no IMR-4198 buyer's remorse. I do wanna try VV N133. From what I've learned to date, IMR-4198 produces incredible accuracy.

I am really excited about my latest adventure with a small bore rifle. I'm like a kid on Christmas Eve.

BTW, mdstewart, I love Sako rifles. 2 of my big game rifles are Sako AVs. They'll shoot .25" @ a hundred.

Finding a preowned Sako .222 Rem would be like finding a key to Fort Knox. And I'd need it. The going price for preowned Sakos chambered for .222 Rem would choke Bill Gates.

I shot a 222 for a couple decades in an old 788 Remington. That rifle adored 19-20 grs. of IMR-4198 over a 50 gr. Sierra bullet. I have long lusted for another Triple Deuce and should have bought the one I saw at a gun show a few weeks ago. The chemo is effecting my brain right now and I can't remember what it was. Same company that made the Finnwolf. SAKO!!!!!!

I never used it on anything bigger than yodel dogs and it was pure "D" death on them. Shot a lot of crows with it out to 250-300 yards. I think it could go farther than 300 but as you mention, wind is going to take its toll. Fine cartridge that does not deserve the neglect it's seeing right now.

I just sold an old classic Rem 700 varmint from the 70's in 222 Rem. It was all period correct with the maple spacer forend tip and a classic Leupold fixed 12x scope with adjustable objective. Really nice rifle that just sat around so I passed it along hoping someone would use it. I still have a little Rem 600 in 222 Rem that is light and handy and a rem 700 classic in the same so 'I still luv em!'

Even have a 222 Rem Mag on a Krico sporter with DST's that is pretty neat, but that one needs a little TLC on the exterior.

In my experience it's difficult to find a load that isn't accurate in most .222's.

I'm sure your Sauer is a nice rifle, and there are certainly no flies on an Anschutz. Other fine .222's are Kricos and Brnos with their extraordinary double set triggers, and Oregon Kimbers with their classic lines. But the royal princesses of .222's are built on a Sako L461 (or even the older L46). I would sound like either a braggart or a liar to tell you how many .222's I own, but let's just say that it is several and there isn't a dud in the lot.

Rifles aside, loading for the .222 is hard to do wrong if you just use a little common sense. It was designed for the 50 grain bullet (which will stabilize in any twist from 1-16 or faster.) The fifty grainer will do just about everything the .222 was intended to do on targets and varmints up to the size of coyotes.

The only fault with IMR-4198 (or 3031) is that the kernels are a bit long and it doesn't flow as smoothly through a powder measure as many other powders. I've been using H-4198 recently in my .222's and some other small calibers, and its smaller grains measure easily and consistently. Other powders I've used very successfully in .222's are H4895 and H335. AA 2200 is also a great powder for the .222. But there are literally dozens of powders which do well in the Duece.

The .222 has exactly the same case head as the .223 and the 17 Remington, but its SAAMI pressure standards were adopted when the case was new and a bit unproven, so they are lower than its later derivatives. So, typical "maximum" (and I abhor that term's perennially misinterpreted meaning) loads in manuals are on the conservative side. Loaded to similar pressures the .222 is only a hundred fps or so behind its offspring, the .223.

Mentioning the use of a .22 Centerfire for deer-sized game is akin to starting a religious war. Truth be told, any bullet that inflicts sufficient trauma on a deer's vital organs will kill it, and do so about as quickly whether it is of small caliber or large. A bullet that holds together reasonably well enough to penetrate into a deer's thorax like the Nosler Partition (or even the regular old Hornady 55 grain spire point) will kill a deer as dead as a .375 H&H, and it will likely run no further after the shot. Hundreds of thousands of completely dead deer-sized animals (otherwise known as humans) can attest to the lethality of .22 Centerfires, even when poorly performing FMJ's were used.

Although the .223 has become much more popular (as everyone knew it would once adopted as an official military cartridge), the .222 is still as accurate, effective, and versatile as ever. I wouldn't give a nickel to change one of my .222's to .223. It's not that I don't own and happily shoot some .223's, but rather that having both I've learned that the biggest difference in the two is that the .222 is, on average, the more accurate and gives up little in velocity.

Now if you want to talk about a real jewel of a cartridge there is the .222 Magnum . . . but we'll save that for a different time.

BTW: If you're interested in finding Sako .222 check out www.sakosource.com I've bought dozens of rifles from this dealer over the years. He's as honest as they come, takes it back if you're not happy, and even offers lay away.

quote:

Even have a 222 Rem Mag on a Krico sporter with DST's that is pretty neat

I came by one of these just a little while back. I loaded it up with 40 grain Ballistic Tips and it immediately became the favorite of everyone on a prairie dog hunt. Those double set triggers are the cat's whiskers. I also have the same rifle in .22-250, but I find the extra case capacity just translates into more recoil and muzzle blast without meaningfully extending the effective range.

My first rifle was a 30-06. One of the "beauty" points of the 30-06 was the wide range of bullet weights available. So I selected 4064 as my powder choice as it would give max velocity in most bullet weights. In reality the wide range of bullets was a moot point. To me it would be a nightmare trying to remember which weight bullet I was zeroed in for and having to re-zero every time I wanted to change bullet weights. So I settled on 150 grain bullets as my choice for the 30-06 whether it be deer or moose. Heard all time the 150 was too light for moose, luckily, the moose I shot and the one my wife shot had not heard this. Then for years I heard that 4350 was THE powder for 30-06. So after about 35 years I got some 4350. 4064 does much better in MY rifle, apparently not so in most others.

In my .222's I've found as has been stated it's harder to find a powder that doesn't work. This seems to be true with both jacketed and cast bullets. I use 55 grain jacketed cup and core bullets and Winchester 748 powder.

Was stated that some powders don't meter well. I use an old relic Belding&Mull powder measure and I have yet to find a powder it doesn't handle. They are slower than other measures, but accurate.

Over the past several years, I have been involved with many youth taking deer with both .222 and .223. Before this experience, my guess as to the results was way wrong. I would have guessed long tracking jobs and many wounded animals getting away. WRONG! Bullet placement is the trump. Put a bullet into heart, lungs or liver and the fun is over and work begins pretty close to where this happened. I saw one doe make about a 60 yard death run and other than that the rest were pretty much where they stood. It's also been my observation that MOST that say you need either a heavy bullet or a premium bullet have really only done it on their keyboard with no actual experience.

I already had a Rem 600 in .222 and traded for a second one. I knew when I traded I'd give the second one to my grandson. He killed some deer with it. He now has twin sons that are 7 years old. I also had an extra stock. I cut it off about 3 1/2" and replaced the plastic trigger guard with a metal one. We will be taking the twins out soon and if they can shoot it, they will probably be getting their first deer this year. The .222 with it's mild recoil, is a delight for kids to shoot. Pretty much if they can hit something the size of a basketball they can put a bullet in a deer's vitals. If the deer's presentation is not right, the deer walks. If it's right, bullet placement is the key. A bigger gun will not do a thing in that situation that the .222 doesn't do. Yes, I'm speaking Texas whitetails and contrary to what some think they are bigger than coyotes. Probably 100 to 175 pounds on the hoof.

The first centerfire rifle I shot was a Remington Bdl in 222 with a Redfield scope, probably around 1965 or so. I still remember the heft of the rifle, the shine of the bluing and poly wood finish, the smell of Hoppe's and Rem-Oil. I've had a soft spot for the 222 ever since, and for early BDLs for that matter.

Whats crazy prices for a SAKO.

Here you can buy a Vixen .222r for 350-400$/3500-4000sek.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
My first rifle was a 30-06. One of the "beauty" points of the 30-06 was the wide range of bullet weights available. So I selected 4064 as my powder choice as it would give max velocity in most bullet weights. In reality the wide range of bullets was a moot point. To me it would be a nightmare trying to remember which weight bullet I was zeroed in for and having to re-zero every time I wanted to change bullet weights. So I settled on 150 grain bullets as my choice for the 30-06 whether it be deer or moose. Heard all time the 150 was too light for moose, luckily, the moose I shot and the one my wife shot had not heard this. Then for years I heard that 4350 was THE powder for 30-06. So after about 35 years I got some 4350. 4064 does much better in MY rifle, apparently not so in most others.

In my .222's I've found as has been stated it's harder to find a powder that doesn't work. This seems to be true with both jacketed and cast bullets. I use 55 grain jacketed cup and core bullets and Winchester 748 powder.

Was stated that some powders don't meter well. I use an old relic Belding&Mull powder measure and I have yet to find a powder it doesn't handle. They are slower than other measures, but accurate.

Over the past several years, I have been involved with many youth taking deer with both .222 and .223. Before this experience, my guess as to the results was way wrong. I would have guessed long tracking jobs and many wounded animals getting away. WRONG! Bullet placement is the trump. Put a bullet into heart, lungs or liver and the fun is over and work begins pretty close to where this happened. I saw one doe make about a 60 yard death run and other than that the rest were pretty much where they stood. It's also been my observation that MOST that say you need either a heavy bullet or a premium bullet have really only done it on their keyboard with no actual experience.

I already had a Rem 600 in .222 and traded for a second one. I knew when I traded I'd give the second one to my grandson. He killed some deer with it. He now has twin sons that are 7 years old. I also had an extra stock. I cut it off about 3 1/2" and replaced the plastic trigger guard with a metal one. We will be taking the twins out soon and if they can shoot it, they will probably be getting their first deer this year. The .222 with it's mild recoil, is a delight for kids to shoot. Pretty much if they can hit something the size of a basketball they can put a bullet in a deer's vitals. If the deer's presentation is not right, the deer walks. If it's right, bullet placement is the key. A bigger gun will not do a thing in that situation that the .222 doesn't do. Yes, I'm speaking Texas whitetails and contrary to what some think they are bigger than coyotes. Probably 100 to 175 pounds on the hoof.

Hi carpetman1,

EXCELLENT POST!!!


I AGREE WITH EVERY LAST SYLLABLE.

Thanks for your dedication to kids & introducing them to hunting.

It's amusing how we'll buy guns for various reasons -wide array of bullets- and wind up using only one, maybe two. My .270 has had more 130 grainers down her barrel than any other. I've used 150 grainers for mule deer & 160 grain Partitions for elk out of my 7MM Rem Mag. I'm done carrying heavy rifles up & down high ridges of the Rockies. From here on out, I'm hunting all big game with one of my .270 Wins.

As I've grown wiser (read: older), I've come to realize how much big game use I could get out of a lightweight .308 Win carbine.

I completely agree with your take on shot placement. I wish I have a nickel for every tall tale I've heard about bull elk traveling miles after taking solid hits. Everything living has seconds remaining in that condition if its topside oxygenated blow flow equipment is destroyed. The cartridge firing the tag filling bullet is immaterial. Elk don't know what caliber bullet stopped topside oxygenated blood flow. An '06 will kill an elk just as dead as any mega magnum. BTW, my opinion is the '06 was the most monumental cartridge ever created. No, I don't own one. It did revolutionize big game hunting.

My .222 Rem will be at my FFL tomorrow. I can't wait to get a look at it. It's my first dedicated small game rifle. With the right bullet, I'd use it on CA blacktail. But my intention is to increase fawn & calf population by decreasing coyote population. I've seen more coyotes in the Rockies than I can remember. Years ago, a local told me to kill all I saw. He wanted me to help limit fawn & calf predation. Since I was after big racks, I didn't. One, a gorgeous coyote, trotted straight toward me after it had roused a band of antelope hoping to find a wounded one. I put the crosshairs of my .270 Win on its chest. He was about a hundred yards from a 130 grain GameKing. I was just about to disintegrate it when I backed off. I was headed to a known buck bedding area & I didn't want to alert napping racks. He was extremely healthy, hUGE for a coyote, and had a gorgeous red neck. He had no clue of how close he came to becoming past tense. Now I think of fawns he had probably killed.

We think alike when it comes to rifles and hunting.

Thanks for sharing very useful & enjoyable info.

Hi Stonecreek,

Thanks for your help...and SakoSource...I believe. If I go broke because I can't help myself when it comes to Sako rifles, I'll wind up broker due to one of the best rifles made.

I sure as heck wish Sako would make Vixens and Finnwolfs again. I'd buy one of each.

I'm going to work with IMR-4198 while keeping an eye on VV-N133. I've read only encouraging stuff about VV-N133. And it meters a lot better.

I'll continue to use one of my .270 Wins on Rocky Mountain big game. I refuse to hunt CA because of this state's hostility to our Second Amendment. In fact, when my kids are out of college, I'll be out of this totalitarian you-know-what hole. Rocky Mountain muley bucks can be HUGE. I feel more comfortable hunting them with 130 grain GakeKings.

Some 20 years ago, a Humboldt, CA cop told me that there is such a huge population of blacktails up there that they wander around the campus of the university: http://www.humboldt.edu/ He also told me that dope growers are almost as plentiful as blacktails, which is another reason I won't hunt CA. Oregon & Washington blacktails would be a much more wise way for me to go.

Hi Matt Salm,

The most accurate rifles I've ever fired were Sakos & model 700s. I have a 45+ year old Model 700 that'll shoot .25" at a hundred with my hand loaded hunting ammo.

I've read many sources that indicate that recent copies of the famed Model 700 suffer quality control problems. I hope it's not true.

EMP3--Thanks for the kind words. The grandson I mentioned, father of my twin great grandsons started off with .22 centerfires. His dad and I both used .243 so when he was about nine he would use the rifle of whichever one of us he was with. The .22's were doing the job, was matter of practicality that he moved up to the .243. The .243's were also doing the job, but when he was about 15 I gave him a .308. It wasn't a matter of needing a bigger gun, it was a matter of me having a bigger gun I thought he would like. A pre 64 Win 88 (and he loves it). He has taken many deer with it. Not a knock on the 30-06, the .308 is right there with it, can't go wrong with either.

Somebody mention the 222.....Sako???

I'm there!!!!

Kevin

One of'em......an H&R 317

I shoot a Rhiimaki .222 Rem, a Rem 600 222 and a Rem 722 for years that I just sold..The 222 has forever been my varmint rifle to back up my 6x45...All my kids and grandkids shot their first few deer with the Rem 600 that I cut down for them, but now wears a long stock..My Grandson who ranches doesn't think you need anymore gun than a .222 for deer, He uses the 60 gr. Horndays and is batting 110 percent success..Ive used the caliber on Rock Chucks, Rabbits, coyote, Badger, and Turkey, and a number of deer on culling hunts..I could get by for all hunting with a 30-06 and a 222 IMO, but wouldn't care to do that..Ive tried most varmint calibers in my life but always returned to the .222 Rem. as my choice..