Hi all,
What is the best bullet for coyotes, using a .22 Hornet, up to 200yds?
Soft point or Hallow point in Factory ammo.
the rifle is a CZ 527 .22 Hornet.
Thanks.

Whatever is adequate for your target and shoots best in your gun. Try a bunch.

The most accurate are RWS (or old MEN) match cartridges.
I would not use a .22 Hornet on coyote though.

C.

Carcano91-I must ask why you would not use a Hornet on coyote. Using good field judgement (i.e. reasonable range and good shot placement), the .22 Hornet does very well on the yodel dogs. In fact, I've even used the 10" Contender out to 135 yards or so on coyotes, but I wouldn't push it beyond that. In a rifle, 175 yards is entirely possible -- and generally puts the coyotes down on the spot.

Granted, the Hornet is not my first choice in a coyote rifle. Heck, it's not even my second or third choice. But in areas where the range will be short, it is entirely sufficient and has been putting pelts on the stretchers for many decades.

As to the original post, use the most accurate frangible bullet your rifle prefers. Back when I shot lots of Hornet rounds, the bulk Remingtons in both soft point and HP format saw lots of use and were very economical -- and they performed extremely well. Today, many more choices exist, including the 40 grain Ballistic Tip and V-Max (neither of which may feed in a magazine rifle and may have to be loaded singly).

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Carcano91-I must ask why you would not use a Hornet on coyote.

For the same reason why I would not use a .22 WMR or .17 rimfire - too small a cartridge for the animal.
YMMV though - that is just my personal feeling.

Carcano

The Hornet is substantially more cartridge than either the .22 WMR or the .17 HMR -- another league entirely. My 10" Contender barrel did 2400+ with 40/45 grain bullets, and a 22-24" rifle barrel produces 2800-2850 fps.

Considering that a 40 grain .22 Mag lumbers along at 1910 fps (and has cleanly taken many, many coyotes for me over the years) and that the best game load in the .17 HMR features a 20 grain bullet at 2375 fps, grouping the .22 Hornet with those two is simply not appropriate.

Thanks Guys

Most Central European hunters wouldn't use the .22 Hornet for marmots. YMMV.

C.

carcano91:

quote:

Most Central European hunters wouldn't use the .22 Hornet for marmots. YMMV.

Carcano, can you explain their position? Is it a feeling that it isn't powerful enough, or not accurate enough? Anschutz has been chambering the Hornet for years - what do Europeans shoot with it?

Jaywalker

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
carcano91:

quote:

Most Central European hunters wouldn't use the .22 Hornet for marmots. YMMV.

Carcano, can you explain their position? Is it a feeling that it isn't powerful enough, or not accurate enough?

1. Not powerful enough. Marmot is tough in spite of its size and will often make it into the burrow. For the same reason, one would never use a .22 Hornet on a badger.

2. The .22 Hornet is used (not exclusively, but) by 90 % of the participants and 100 % of the winners in hunting competitions according to German DJV rules (rules are quite different in Austria, where the 6x51 Atzl rules). German Hornet competition rifles are Keppeler, Anschütz, Weihrauch.

At 100 metres, 15 mms is a barely acceptable group size, 8-10 mms is rather what is expected.

Carcano

Carcano,

Interesting, thanks.

I wonder if the issue is the bullet used in your hunting competitions. My impression is that 8 - 15mm (0.3" - 0.6") is more accurate than the standard factory ammo we buy over here. OTOH, I haven't heard much about "crawl-away" woodchucks over here, and I presume they're similar animals - both marmots. Our woodchucks run 7 kilos (15 pounds), +/-. It's been my experience that target bullets make poor game bullets, as a rule.

In some quarter in the US, the 22 Winchester Magnum Rim Fire is known as the (deer) "poacher's rifle," as so many are taken with that round illegally. It's considerably less powerful than the Hornet, and even Southern US deer are bigger than a woodchuck.

Jaywalker

The .22 lr was the most popular poaching cartridge here (one does not need .22 WMR - too loud), but this argument does not appear pertinent to the question.

In Germany - where the round is far more used than in the USA -, many hunters do not consider the .22 Hornet as well suitable either for hare or for fox. Others do; it is a disputed subject. See, for example, this thread:

.22 Hornet for Hare or Fox?

Carcano,

My German is limited to the Google translation tool, so please clarify if I've misconstrued the thrust of the arguments.

It appears to me some of the discussion involved whether to shoot at the head or the chest, with the "head shooters" choosing that method because the bullets didn't penetrate the chest reliably. Elsehwere, there were discussions of the Hornady VMAX, which is clearly a target bullet. It appeared to me that the people who used "hunting bullets" did fine, including the final post from Wolfgang, who seemed to find it worked well. (He used smiley icons, though, so I could well have missed something.)

Still, a little less concentration on target accuracy, and a bit more on hunting bullet capability should help considerably.

Jaywalker

The Vmax is not a target bullet; it is a varmint bullet. As to the discussion, you can observe two factions (also in other parallel threads in the same forum, on the Hornet topic): one maintains that the fragmentible high-vel bullets are not suitable for any edible game (such as hare), and that with other hunting bullets, the cartridge has no reserves for suboptimal shots (this especially applies to good chest and unfortunate belly shots). Many bad experiences are quoted to support this stance. Wounded animals would too often get away.

The other faction is quite satisfied, and often extolls the deadly performance of the Hornady Vmax.

If I had a .22 Hornet or slightly weaker 5,6x35R Vierling, I would not use it on fox (except young fox cubs, provided I would at all shoot them, which is unlikely: I respect the "cutsy factor" ;-)) and certainly never on badger. On crow (where not protected): okay. Rabbit maybe.

Carcano

carcano91-I am not certain the size or tenacity of your fox over there, but here in south central Texas, the Hornet is actually a tad much. In fact, when I used one for calling purposes, I loaded it down to around 2300 fps with a 45 grain bullet. A .22 Magnum is perfect for fox out to 100 yards, and in night-time (or heavy brush) calling situations, where the terrain dictates shots of no more than 50 yards, a 12 gauge stoked with heavy loads of #4 shot is "lights out" for the dimunitive grey fox, the largest of which I have ever taken having been 12 pounds.

The foxes must be different then (not surprising, given their many different subspecies all over the world). While the .22 Hornet is disputed, the use of the .22 WMR is regarded as downright unethical here.

C.

Carcano,

You're correct, the VMax is a varmint bullet; I was mistakenly thinking of the AMax.

I'm informed by my zoologist wife that North American Red Foxes are European imports; native NA foxes are Gray Foxes. We can reasonably assume they approximate the same size and vitality.

I'm at a loss to understand the difference in observed terminal effects, however. A quick review of the comments on both the ammunition and bullet components at http://www.midwayusa.com indicate satisfaction, with both accuracy and terminal effects. On this side of the Atlantic, the Hornet has long been used for varmints.

Jaywalker

My experience is the factory SP loads perform more reliably than their HP counterparts which sometimes fail to expand on Eastern woodchucks....The accuracy consistency of US factory Hornet ammo is fraught with flyers....Handloading this cartridge is highly recommended.....The Nosler solid base Hornet bullet works the best in the many Hornets I own....

Coyotes larger than 25 pounds are rare, except in the Northern portions of coyote range and in the mountains. I wouldn't hesitate to use a .22 Hornet on even the largest of coyotes, much less a fox. The last Badger I killed was with a .22 WMR, and it expired in place (at the mouth of its den) without so much as a twitch.

I'm surprised by the European attitude (as expressed by Carcano91) toward the Hornet. Typically, Europeans are quite confident (and justifiably so) with less powerful calibers than Americans for similar game species.