I don’t know about you guys, but beautiful and accurate rifles really float my boat.


Cooper model 38 classic in 22 hornet and grey fox


Cooper model 38 classic in 22 hornet and ringtail cat

Several weeks back I had posted a pix of my Cooper model 38 in 22 hornet, and the test target supplied with the rifle.


A couple of the more vociferous members here denigrated the test target because it was shot at 40-50 yds. with a 36x scope.
I have had several hornets, including two rugers, a browning low wall and this Cooper. The Cooper is far and away the most accurate of the four, not to mention the best in fit and finish, to my mind. I bought this rifle somewhere around 2002, from a friend for under a grand, the leupold 4.5 x 14 vari-x III came mounted on the rifle and was included in the price, which even at that time was a good deal in my opinion.
I had the opportunity to go to the range last Sunday and do some shooting. I took the Cooper and some different loads that I had put together a couple of years ago when I had the browning low wall.
Here are the results of 5 different loads, shot back to back over a 30 minute period. The rifle was not cleaned before or during this session. It had about 30 rounds through the bore since the last cleaning. Temp was about 50 degrees F and wind at my back at 5-10 mph. Scope is a leupold vari x III 4.5 x 14. Distance is 100 yds., measured. Shot off rest on concrete bench.











Observations,
1. As I don’t practice at the bench as much as I used to, my ability to shoot small groups is not what it was in the past.
2. This rifle is capable of shooting better than I can.
3. I’ll have no problem nailing varmints at 150 yds or less (the range at which I shoot most varmints)
4. I love the shit out of this rifle.
5. I like beer.
GWB

quote:

I don’t know about you guys, but beautiful and accurate rifles really float my boat.

Oh yes! Of course, I think my hornet is beautiful too. I cannot claim such accuracy as yours but then I haven't shot it off the bench since finding my best load. I do know a good few magpies (and other critters) are not happy with it!


And a cartridge to go with it! I bet you havn't seen one of those before.


Here's the 'bullet' in the target backing. Recognise it now?


Now?


Now this one is what I like but is not a small caliber exactly - it's my cast bullets shot from my NoI MkI* Lee Enfield. And only at 45m, but still! And I think the rifle is beautiful. (I have a picture of it somewhere).


It's the top one in the pic.


Oh, I like beer too!

Rifles built by a company whose owner supported Obama financially don't float my boat at all despite how accurate the may be.

Nice rifle, Geedubya. I find the little Hornets more and more appealing as I grow older. I just wish Cooper would go ahead and put a magazine on it, or at least offer that option.

Being a godless Commie socialist tax-and-spend Obama lover myself, I've been expecting to pick up a cast-off Cooper for a song from some true-believer like Grumulkin above. Funny thing is, the prices for used Coopers don't seem to be going down any Could it be that some of us have mouths that extend further than our pocket books? So, I guess until a cheap Cooper comes along I'll just have to keep shooting my Sakos (made in Finland by real life communists).

Uh, Stonecreek, the Fins are not Commies.

They operate under a democratic, parlimentary system of government.

Stonecreek,
A couple of bromides,
1 (nice version) opinions are like noses. Every one has one and many of them smell.
2. Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate.
3 A wise man once said, " a soft answer turns away wrath.
4 Ham and eggs. For the chicken its no big deal. For the pig its total commitment. Preferences and principles are pretty much the same.

If you care to notice, I typically stick to objective posts using quantifiable data rather than express opinions. When criticism is offered I very seldom respond, because most criticism is opinion (see number 1 & 2 and 3 and 4 above for explanation)
Also,
I just purchased a cooper classic in 20 tactical from a good old capitalist pawn broker for $895. Believe it or not, he actually admitted that he bought it cheaper than what he sold it to me for, and that he was making a healthy profit on it. I told him more power to him and that as a good old unreconstructed red ne'k southern cracker I was doing my part to keep the economy ginning. In fact I'll even use some of the powder, dies, brass and bullets that I've been clinging to in order to shoot it.
And yes I love my sakos also. I think I have fifteen now.
GWB

303 guy,

There are only a couple of places on earth that I truly desire to visit/hunt before my time on earth is up. New Zealand is second on my list. Pardon my ignorance but I operate within a narrow band of mediocrity. I take it that the top picture is of a 303 enfield, hence the handle "303 guy. Are all your rifles suppressed?
You guys have a lot of feral goats and sheep there do you not. How bout different deer species? Do you guys have much public land to hunt. Here in texas there is very little public land and you typically have a lease which amounts to a trespass fee.
GWB

Well, I'm not buying anymore Coopers to support someone so diametrically opposed to my political viewpoint as Dan Cooper is but I sure ain't throwing away the ones I bought before Danny boy committed financial/political suicide.
Nice looking rifle there and in spite of their phony targets which are actually shot at 36 yards in a hallway where they store guns over in Stevensville Montana, (I had problems with a couple Coopers and as I live reasonably close I've been there a number of times, actually shot one of my problem children in that hallway). At that time they had a great customer service guy named Rob who has since left and they did indeed take care of all problems.
36 yard hallway aside, a lot (most) Coopers shoot like crazy even if the company namesake is an complete idiot. To exemplify that I'll post a picture of a bunch of 5 shot groups shot at "100" yards both forming cases and with formed cases. The rifle is a Montana Varminter in .22 K-Hornet that has since been rebarreled into a Wildcat based on the .218 Bee case with the shoulders blown out to 40 degrees, it's called the .20 Killer Bee.
I set these targets up to send Rob at Cooper because we had had a debate about Lil'Gun being a pistol powder and no good in rifle cases such as the Hornet and K-Hornet. I contend it's a pretty decent combo.



Enjoy your rifle, looks like a keeper.

Don't know if any of it's true or not but I hear Coopers moving the plant to Ohio (good, get em outta here!!), and that the board of directors has un-assed Danny boy for being such a traitor to the industry and shooting the bottom line right in the foot. If it ain't true it oughta be. No matter I've bought my last new one!
Anyone so morally outraged at having even an older one desecrating their gun-safe with the name that they can't bear it please contact me and maybe we can work a deal, of course the price has to be commiserate with junk that they are. Say 10 cents on the dollar .

Montdoug,
I bought that rifle around '02. cheap from a gunsmith friend of mine. He is very impetuous. I love to hang around him because he will buy fine rifles and mount Zwaro, leupolds and ziess scopes on them, shoot them for a month or two, loose interest and sell them cheap. I try to be there with the cash when the notion strikes. Don't know if your a better man than I am, but you're definately a better shot. Pretty neat shootin.
As an aside. I was in Bozeman last year. Went on an elk hunt with the Johnsons out of Jardine, which is just up the mountain from Gardiner. Had a ball. I stayed in Bozeman two days each way. Bought some Schnees, ate at Teds, visited Powderhorn Outfitters and sportmans warehouse, visited a neat little coffe shop and a bookstore. Pretty muched walked up one side of main street and down the other. I liked Montana a lot. Ran into a couple of different guys with the bumper sticker, that said " Montana, no vacancy. I told them that I would be leaving soon, only my money was staying. They said I was their kind of Texan, visit, spend money and leave. Being a flatlander I was awed by the country you guys have.
It was so warm the last two days of my hunt that I stayed in camp and cooked for everyone. The outfitter liked my cooking enough that he invited me back to cook for them when they go to their outback camp on the Hellroaring River this September. I'm looking forward to coming back and doing just that. Hell, if I could arrange it I would spend September and October there.
GWB
PS: I'm getting pretty good results in regards to accuracy and velocity with Reloader 10x in some of my 17's and tac 20.
GWB

We got a guy like that here in town, he's a doctor and a darned good one but he's a fart in a skillet when it comes to buyin and sellin. A guy wants to follow him around like those birds in the story about Hansel and Gretel following behind em picking up crumbs.
Killed a few elk over the years down near Gardiner, late hunts usually but not one of my regular hunting spots, lottsa foot soldiers down there and a goodly number of grizzlies (holding a .300 Win I'm not "overly" scared of grizzlies but I do fear the Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks going up my kiester with a magnifying glass for killing one). I do float the river a lot down that way though.
As to those groups I'd like to point out that I was using a 20X scope, a Sinclair rest and 2 wind flags. Plus which the Varminter and Montana Varminter have a wide flat fore-end that lends it's self to tiny groups more so than the classic so I probably started out with a leg up on ya.
As to bumper stickers my favorite is "Keep Montana beautiful, gut shoot a land-developer!!!".
On 10X I use it in a zero free-bore custom chambered .204 (basically a wildcat as it'll no longer accept factory ammo safely) with the 39 Sierra BlitzKing and it's a super combo. In my .20 Tactical I use H4198 with the 33 grain V-Max's and Benchmark with the 40's. We sure gotta lotta powders to chose from anymore.
Other than big game I'm a small caliber guy .

You know, Geedubya, when the call it Godzone, they mean it! To go hunting, I phone, a few days later a permit arrives and I go hunting. That's it! So yes, we do have a lot of public land and we can hunt on it. A lot of it doesn't really have much on it (other than offering a good work-out) but it is there and there is game on it. We have quite a few Deer species (and heaps of feral goat - bless them. ) We have turkeys galore but those are on farm land. But farmers don't bite you head off if you ask them nicely! Unfortunately, most have already got someone shooting on their land. We have Red deer, Wapiti (your Elk), Fallow, Sika, Tahr, (throw in some Wallaby) and there is even a population of Moose (I believe). I'm sure I have left something out.

Most of my rifle are suppressed. Semi-suppressed actually. These are my own creation and as small as one of them one is, is as effective as a much larger model on the market. But not totally quiet. The top picture is a Anschutz hornet. The top two rifles in the bottom picture are Lee Enfields. I have a third one with a fat 'silencer' on it but it's ugly so I didn't post it! (Nor is it a small bore - but is does seem to be accurate). Well, it's beautiful to me in that whenever I pick it up I wnat to go hunting with it. Funny thing that! Here it is.

The can on it only has one baffle (the oustide one) but it works a treat!

Those are not even three-shot 'groups'! Can't tell how many shots are in each!
Dang! Now I have to go try again! I won't bother posting the last group I shot with mine!
On the upside, mine does have a nice piece of wood.

303guy,10/4 on that. Thanks for the reply. I get a kick out of seeing what other guys are doing and hearing about their experiences. Hope to get over that way (NZ)for a couple of weeks within the next two years or so.
GWB

303Guy Are your gun laws fairly restrictive or can you just buy a firearm and take it home? I find it interesting that in the UK which as I understand it has very restrictive gun laws compared to say Montana where I can just walk in buy a semi auto handgun and leave with it they can have suppressors, yet over here a suppressor or silencer will get you prison time without the proper and very expensive licenses. Different everywhere I guess.
Like Geedubya I too would love to visit your magnificent country before checking out and I'm a stay at home kinda guy, I fear however the fishing would side-track me much as I love to hunt.
Nice looking fire arms

Thanks. Yes, once we have our firearms licence (a very sensible licence aquisition process), we can walk in and buy a rifle or shotgun. We can get a hand gun licence too but that is a bit more restrictive. Fishing is indeed good and we have a lot of coastline! Make for a longer visit so you will have time to fit some hunting in too! The South Island folks are the ones to talk to about hunting, I think. I wish I was the kind of person to accommodate visitors like yourself, both for fishing and hunting (even sight seeing). I would do it for pleasure if I could. But there are folks out there who are of the type - just to find them! Mmmm....
It's just that I'm not good at that sort of thing. Mmmmm....

Hey you folks! If and when you do make over here, please be sure to let me know - it would be great to meet you! (Maybe even take you to a farm I frequent, for a 'visit'? No promises mind you. Just a great thought!) Mmmmm.... maybe .... ?

I'd be fun and much as I'd love to in all likelyhood I'll never leave Montana again, two million tourist's a year can't be wrong. I do my absolute best to stay out of airplanes at all costs and I swore up and down when I was in the service in the mid to late 60's if I ever got home I'd stay there, done er too .
No, I'll do my traveling on the Travel channel.

303guy,
I know for sure I will not be going abroad this year. The health of both of my parents is failing rapidly. Expecting 2nd grandson in October. Have trips planned in US. Will be 2010 at least. Hopefully we'll still be posting then. If I can make it over there, maybe we can hook up and you can introduce me to some of the local brews. I'll buy. One of my favorite pastimes is stopping by court houses, pawn shops and brewpubs or micro breweries wherever I travel. I thoroughly enjoy shooting the bull with the locals over a couple beers.

Yup. Nothing wrong with staying home! We do have a few local brewers around. Some still make the original "Captain Cook" brew which they say is absolutely terrible! Well, 'till 2010 then (at least).

Nice Hornet Geedubya. Now you need to try one in 17 Ackley hornet! That was my first Cooper and still my favorite. Word is that Wilson Barrels bought Cooper out and Dan is out of the picture. Hope so, they make a fine rifle and I would like to own more.

John,
At this point I've only bought used coopers from individuals. I did not support DC's actions, and called and sent e-mails during that imbroglio. However, I don't mind buying them used.
I have the 17 ackley hornet in an contender. Years ago, had what was then virgin valley make me a 22" bull barrel. Get formed brass from Todd K. at the wood chuck den. I am loading some old 18 gr. bergers. Works like a charm on fox.
Did get in a model 21 classic yesterday chambered in tac 20. Hope it will also be a shooter. I bought it used and it may have a couple of problems that were not disclosed, but I bought it reasonably cheap. I already have the tac 20 in another contender barrel that virgin valley also made for me around 99 or 2000.
Love those small calibers
GWB

Geedub here's a Cooper in .17 Ackley Hornet that I bought a few years back, shoots in the .3's and .4's.


Dandy rifle regardless of Dan's political differences with most of the rest of the shooting world.
Your gonna love that .20 Tactical, I hate what it was named cause there ain't nothing "Tactical" about it but I love the round! Serious performer.

Montdoug,
Pure gunporn there. Unlike some folks I understand the nature of my ureasoning desire to posess inantimate objects such as the rifle in your pix.

I have contenders in 17 akley hornet, 17 mach IV, and tac-20.
I have the rem model 7 predator in 17 fireball.
I have the rem 700 lvsf in 17 rem and 221 fireball.
I now have the cooper classics in 22 hornet and tac 20.
So I'm pretty well covered up in small calibers. However I have been thinking of seriously looking for a 20 vartarg in a cooper,either classic or varmint. Probably will end up with an 17 akley hornet also before its overwith.

As I am not a long distance or high volume shooter the classics fit my needs for walking varminters to a tee.
Thanks for your interest and the time it took to post the pix you've included on this thread.
GWB

PS: Your posting pix of that rifle and badger are doing nothing to help me control my addiction. By the way if you have the time or inclination, what's the story on the badger.

17AH in a classic is a very nice package. I had one and traded up for one in a Jackson Varmint and it goes with me more than any other gun on walks. Stock fits me just a little better. Trying to decide on my next gun and what it will be in. One of the 20's but hard to pin it down to one.

Geedub not to hi-jack your thread but since you like small calibers and you started the thread I'll post another. This "was" the .22 K-Hornet that I posted the pictures of it's groups.
A buddy designed a wildcat based on the .218 Bee case with the shoulders blown out to 40 degrees and necked down to .17 caliber, he named it the ".17 Killer Bee" (I'm having one built as we speak on an original 1886 Winchester Low Wall but that's another story altogether). The round is a ballistic triplet with the .17 MachIV and .17 Fire Ball.
After he had the first one built as a .17 he and I got to talking about how neat a round it would be in a .20 caliber After about 20 minutes on Quick Design he sends me a reamer print of the .20 Killer Bee 4 of us got to talking and went in on a reamer together this is the result. I had a gun smith in Colorado who is magic with small calibers single point the action, double sleeve the bolt,open the bolt face up to accommodate the Bee case, pillar bed it and install a Pac-Nor 3 groove Super Match stainless .20 caliber barrel chambered in .20 Killer Bee. The ballistics are near identical to my .20 VarTarg, just under 3,800fps with a 32 grain V-Max. Here it is on it's first outing.



The buddy that designed the case lives in Cheyenne Wyoming and he has a friend that is an engraver, they came up with this.



It just might be my favorite part of the rifle .

montdoug,
I am on the way out the door to the range. Will make a proper response later. But I will say this, I hope you don't take too much pleasure in the emotional pain and turmoil you are inflicting with this gunporn you are posting. And by all means, hi-jack all you want or we can start a new thread.
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
Geedub here's a Cooper in .17 Ackley Hornet that I bought a few years back, shoots in the .3's and .4's.


Dandy rifle regardless of Dan's political differences with most of the rest of the shooting world.
Your gonna love that .20 Tactical, I hate what it was named cause there ain't nothing "Tactical" about it but I love the round! Serious performer.

Doug
My new Cooper in 17 Mach2 looks just like this rifle of yours, and shoots just as accurately with the Eley ammo.
Regards Greg

As long as this thread started on Hornets here's my first Anschutz. The picture doesn't do it justice, it's a scandalous piece of wood. Shoots better than it looks.



It's porn to me too Geedub and the best part is my wife is my best hunting pardner so she don't care , life is good.

Montdoug,
first thing you've said I might have to take exception with. How in the world could that rifle shoot better than it looks. It looks exquisite. In that light, the checkering looks awesome. That is one beautiful piece of work.
I have several rifles that have some pretty good wood and none of them are safe queens, so they all get nicks and dings. I hate it but thats why I have rifles with oil finish rather than an acrylic finish.
GWB

Geedub I'd been thinking about a Hornet for years and rumors of their problems had scared me off (false rumors I've since discovered at least with today's components and firearms), a gun shop owner I know said "buy an Anschutz and if it don't shoot I'll give ya your money back". I ordered the rifle and when it came in and I went to get it and when it came outta the box 1) it wasn't the Varmint heavy barrel I'd ordered and 2) that wood was as glitzy as a Bangkok boom-boom house on Saturday nite R&R. Not used to stuff that flashy. Then he pulled out the test target and it was all three touching at 100 meters and this ole country boy thought maybe glitzy ain't all that bad and if it shoots that well who needs a heavy barrel?
It's come to be a favorite and it does have a few "memory marks" as it's all about rat smackin at this house. I will say at the risk of sounding like an internet group shrink artist that my wife who is one heck of a shot (second hand Marine training , girls a natural), used that Anschutz and it's favorite load of WW cases, WSR's, 40 grain V-Max's too long to fit in the magazine and Lil'Gun, to shoot a 5 shot 100 yard group that measured a .266 outside center to center. Still got it on the wall in my loading room. That's shooting in my book and who cares how it looks?

quote:

Originally posted by Fasteel:


Doug
My new Cooper in 17 Mach2 looks just like this rifle of yours, and shoots just as accurately with the Eley ammo.
Regards Greg

Fasteel, while the .17 Mach2 hasn't caught on like the HMR I have one in a CZ 452 and it's a humdinger! Not the the rifle your politically incorrect Cooper is , but it sure does what I need it to and man is it accurate. Mines favorite is the CCI ammo. We have a critter around here called a "Richardsons Ground Squirrel" that we call gophers. A pasture infested with em is seriously compromised and the numbers of em a guy can shoot in a day is unreal. Around here the State Rifle is the 10-22, everyone has a gopher gun or 30, L.O.L. the Mach2 is ideal for that use as is the HMR and the .17 Ackley but for large numbers and no muss or fuss chasing brass etc. I love those .17M2's and HMR's. Very few ricochets, way accurate, kills em deader'n fried chicken.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:

I bet that squirrel's head is missing huh?

Loved the pics, and NO! I ain't turning em in!!!

You guys are going to make me rebarrel my Anschutz hornet and fit decent scope!

303guy,
its a capitalist plot. Get you to keep your money in circulation. With all the grief going on about the economy I had planned to slow down on buying and trading guns. Hell after being on this board and a couple others, during the month of February alone, I have bought two rifles, put two more on lay away, bought a pistol barrel for an encore, 4,000 primers and about six different types of powder and bullets. Be careful there 303guy. Hanging out at places like this can be harmful to your pocketbook
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

Originally posted by Fasteel:


Doug
My new Cooper in 17 Mach2 looks just like this rifle of yours, and shoots just as accurately with the Eley ammo.
Regards Greg

Fasteel, while the .17 Mach2 hasn't caught on like the HMR I have one in a CZ 452 and it's a humdinger! Not the the rifle your politically incorrect Cooper is , but it sure does what I need it to and man is it accurate. Mines favorite is the CCI ammo. We have a critter around here called a "Richardsons Ground Squirrel" that we call gophers. A pasture infested with em is seriously compromised and the numbers of em a guy can shoot in a day is unreal. Around here the State Rifle is the 10-22, everyone has a gopher gun or 30, L.O.L. the Mach2 is ideal for that use as is the HMR and the .17 Ackley but for large numbers and no muss or fuss chasing brass etc. I love those .17M2's and HMR's. Very few ricochets, way accurate, kills em deader'n fried chicken.

Gopher eh Doug,
We have plenty of them up here as well. I do a trip to the next province east of here in Saskatchewan in the spring( should it ever come) and the farmer who's place I shot at last year bought and shot 25,000 rounds of 22 ammo just at gophers.2 years ago the gophers were so bad that farmers were providing all the ammo you could shoot to help get rid of them. It is varmint heaven if you like to do a lot of shooting, and who doesn't. The Politically incorrect Cooper will get used a bunch on this years trip.

Fasteel only guy's who have actually hit good days in gopher infested pastures can truly believe the numbers you shoot. I honestly hate to bring up numbers cause with all the B.S. floating around on the internet guys think your making stuff up. That's where to me taking multiple rifles from the .17 Mach2 to the .17HMR a .17 Ackley Hornet and maybe a .17 MachIV or .17 Fire Ball make for a heck of a day. We call it "gopher smuckin"! Saw my first one of the season in a barrow pit on the way home a couple days ago . Then it's snowed for the last three days .
Come on spring .

Did someone mention Coopers here? I just picked this one up Tuesday. 25-06 Model 52 Exhib. French.... Sweet

Truly a beautiful rifle! That one's so purty I'd be afraid to hunt with it.
In the unlikely event that I should happen to stumble across a used 52 in the synthetic stock (so I'd be comfortable elk hunting with it), chambered in .280 Ackley Improved I'd be on it like a duck on a June bug!!
Be that as it may that is true firearm artistry you have there. Congrats.

Wow,
that is one beautiful piece of wood on that rifle. Just looking at the picture of the flow of the wood grain is mermerizing.
I've been thinking about a 52 in 338-06 or 35 whelen.
GWB