I have a Remington 700 LH action. I had just about deceided on the 6.5/284 and may still go that way, however, after reading the post below, on the 6.5-06. Can you give me the pros and cons of each. I'd like to go with either a Pac-Nor or Shilen SS barrel and possibly a Richards laminated Thumbhole (lefthand) stock. I'd like to try my hand at finishing the stock. Any way, Let me know the what you think.

If you have he long action you might want to go with the 6.5-06.

If you have the short action you don't have a choice unless you're willing to live with a single shot.
Other than that it's six of one and half dozen of another.

Is either one inherently more accurate than the other?

What about recoil? I have a 270win, but with a heavier barrel and stock the recoil should be less. Is the recoil less from the 284? I want another long range varmint gun and able to do double duty as a Deer and Antelope rifle.

quote:

Is either one inherently more accurate than the other?

Many would argue that the shorter fatter case of the 284 would be the more accurate. While I haven't tried both in a 6.5 I did play with a 280 &284. I could not see a difference.

Accuracy is probably more affected by the loading components, preperation and procedures and the gunsmithing parts and skills more than the cartridge case by itself, I would bet.

But, you see a heck of a lot of 6.5x284's winning long range rifle competitions.

AI22-250,

There is much confusion regarding the 6.5/284. Although the 6.5-06 and the 6.5-.284 rounds look different, they are ballistically identical when loaded to identical pressures. Any difference in velocities between the two found in reloading manuals is likely a difference in pressures as the two have essentially normal case capacity.

If anything, the 6.5-.284 Norma will obtain slightly higher velocities when loaded with very long bullets in a long action due to less relative powder space intrusion than with the 6.5-06.

The issue has been raised regarding long vs short action length which is completely bogus. Look at the 6.5-.284 Norma CIP specifications. It has an MOAL of ~3.2 inches making it a long action cart. and is made to seat long bullets way out there. The key is to make sure that your throating matches your action length. Assuming you make your 6.5-.284 Norma on a long action, just make sure your reamer is ground with the standard CIP spec throat.

That's right, the 6.5-.284 is not a wildcat, but a CIP standardized cart. SAMMI just isn't up to speed yet. You can easily get properly headstamped brass from Norma, Lapua or Hornady.

Accuracy as Fjold said should be identical. Any difference is likely only theoretical or only obtainable in very specialized rifles.

The biggest downside of the 6.5-.284 Norma is that depending on your magazine size, it is likely that you will not be able to get 5 down.

Wes

WESR - Thanks, that makes it a little clearer. I think I saw in a post a few days ago about using a 6.5/270win reamer in order to get the long throat? Would that allow for the loading of very long bullets?

I guess getting a little crazier, how about a 6.5/270AI? Better case life? Not to interested in extra velocity, I know that the 270AI doesn't get much increase in velocity, but once fire forming is done, my 22-250AI cases seem to last a very long time, even with max loads.

I'll look up the spec's for the CIP Standardization. Will Pac-Nor or Shilen have the correct reamer or will I have to order the barrel and have it installed by a gunsmith in my area, using a spsecial order reamer?

Thanks, Mike

quote:

Originally posted by AI22-250:
WESR - Thanks, that makes it a little clearer. I think I saw in a post a few days ago about using a 6.5/270win reamer in order to get the long throat? Would that allow for the loading of very long bullets?

I guess getting a little crazier, how about a 6.5/270AI? Better case life? Not to interested in extra velocity, I know that the 270AI doesn't get much increase in velocity, but once fire forming is done, my 22-250AI cases seem to last a very long time, even with max loads.

I'll look up the spec's for the CIP Standardization. Will Pac-Nor or Shilen have the correct reamer or will I have to order the barrel and have it installed by a gunsmith in my area, using a spsecial order reamer?

Thanks, Mike

Mike,
Sorry, but I can't really answer any of these questions for you. Any comments on case life would be speculative. You would have to call Pac-Nor and Shilen regarding what reamer version they have.

What I can tell you is that what most people have is a reamer that cuts for the non-standardized version with a shorter throat. If you go with the 6.5-284 Norma, you will most certainly want to iorn out the details before laying down you money. Worst case scenario, you could alway just have a piloted throater lengthen the throat a little.

Keep in mind that with a CIP standard throat (much like a specification 6.5x55mm throat)the 120gr bullets will be quite a distance from the lands.

Wes

Why not go with the STANDARD .260 Remington and not have to worry with expensive brass, neck turning, extra 100-200fps(the varmints dn't knw whether the 140AMAX hit them at 3000fps or 2700fps anyway........same result!!!DEAD VARMINT!!) brass is EASILY FORMED, CHEAP, and accurracy(unless you're a 1000 yard BR shooter!!!) is about the same!!! ..........and the .260 Remington was originally the .263 Panther of 1000 yard BR fame!! Remington just decided to bring it out in commercial form and named it the ".260 Remington"!!! Helluva a huntin round!!! Not to mention the accuracy or=f that case teamed up with the SUPERIOR ballistics offered by the .264 bullets available today!! GHD

That's funny, someone PM'ed me today asking me about the 6.5x284 and this is what I wrote him:

My MRC short action has a 3.2" magazine box so it is a good bit longer than the Remington short action. I don't know how long the magazine box is in a Rem 700 short action but I thought it was around 3".

I load the 142 grain Sierra MatchKing to an OAL of 3.027" when I'm touching the lands of my barrel. I had my throat cut to fit the MatchKing loaded to 3.025" so my gunsmith got pretty close.

I'm loading 49.4 grains of H4350 which fills the case to about 1/2 way up the shoulder so the base of my bullet is sitting right on top of the powder column without compressing it. I figure that I can get almost .20" of throat wear and still seat my bullet a little further out to meet it.

With this load I'm getting 3,012 fps (26" barrel) and I'm not seeing any case head expansion that I can measure. The primers look rounded at the edges still and the primer pockets are still tight after three reloads. I know some target shooters are shooting this same bullet over 3250 fps in 28-30" barrels but I think that they're pushing the pressure a bit.

According to the Hogdgon Powder load data on their website, the 260 maxes out at about 2720 fps with the 140 grain bullet. So the 260 would lose at least 300 fps and maybe 350 fps compared to the 6.5x284.

I built my 6.5x284 to shoot ground squirrels out to 1,000 yards and at that distance the 300 fps advantage over the 264 translates to 83" less drop and 14" less wind drift (10 MPH wind).

I have both the 6.5/284 [BSA Med action] and a 6.5/06 on a long actioned Remington. Both shoot excellent with a Shilen barrel on the BSA and a McGowen on the 6.5/06. The only real difference is that the 6.5/284 has a 1-9 and the 6.5/06 a 1-10 twist. The 6.5/284 will shoot a tad better at 100 but the Rem outshoots it at 200. Same bullet [140 Sierra Gameking]used in both. Same powder too. I use RL-22. Velocity is a bit higher with the McGowen barrel due to the slightly slower twist. At 300 yds the 6.5/06 is still a bit more accurate but this may be because of the scopes. I will someday put on a McGowen barrel in 6.5/284 and see how this works. Accuracy at 100 yds not being essential to me. I use Lake City N.M. brass for the 6.5/06 and only neck turn at at the very first of the loading. I turn at 30-06 and then neck down to 270 and ultimately to 6.5. The brass lasts a LONG time and is better [for me] than any of the commercial cases and I have tried most of them. When I cut the chamber I also cut the neck to 270 length so that if some guy who ever gets this rifle and tries to make brass from 270 Win or 280 doesnt end up with pressure problems. The little extra length of the neck doesn`t appear to cause accuracy problems with the 140 Sierra seated out to .020 from the leade. This is the same leade setting I use on the 6.5/284 also. I would recommend EITHER of the two but if brass or proper headstamp is required I would go with the 6.5/284. Just my .02 worth.

Aloha, Mark

Bohica,

Thanks for the reply, about how much does your 6.5/06 weigh? How long is the barrel and is it set up as a varmint rifle or for the bench? What kind of Optics did you go with?

Mike

I built my 6.5-06 on a 1903 Remington Modified action, and then installed a 24" Shaw Chrome Moly barrel, a mistake!! I twisted it 10", as I wanted to shoot the 120 grain bullet to fill a niche I "thought I had". With IMR 4831, I am sending the 120 grain Sierra downrange @ 3175fps+. Groups at 100 yds are 1 to 1.25". Since you have the long action, go with the 6.5-06, it wll make you VERY happy. Go with Pac-Nor, as they will set up the barrel any way you want, and they are tack drivers.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:...Since you have the long action, go with the 6.5-06, it wll make you VERY happy. ...

Again, the 6.5-.284 as CIP standardized is a long action round.

.284 Winchester=short action round
6.5-.284 Norma= long action round

I could build a 7mm Rem. Mag off of a short action if I wanted to load it with flush seated wadcutters, but what would be the point.

Wes

My 6.5-284 is now on the 7th loading on hornady brass. I am down to about 50 pieces of brass due to case neck splitting, lost brass and otherwise damaged cases. The neck splitting started at the 5th loading. I just bought 100 cases of Lapua brass. They look to be annealed. Accuracy between the calibers mentioned is determined by individual rifles and shooters. 6 of one half dozen of the other.

quote:

Originally posted by WESR:

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:...Since you have the long action, go with the 6.5-06, it wll make you VERY happy. ...

Again, the 6.5-.284 as CIP standardized is a long action round.

.284 Winchester=short action round
6.5-.284 Norma= long action round

I could build a 7mm Rem. Mag off of a short action if I wanted to load it with flush seated wadcutters, but what would be the point.

Wes

AND YOUR POINT IS !! If you think he should build on the 284 case, say so. Of course you may as well mention, he won't get five in the magazine, if that is important, or he may have to fiddel with the magazine rails to get it to feed, or he may have brass difficulties. Now I know none of these things are a big deal, BUT THEY SHOULD BE MENTIONED.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:

quote:

Originally posted by WESR:

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:...Since you have the long action, go with the 6.5-06, it wll make you VERY happy. ...

Again, the 6.5-.284 as CIP standardized is a long action round.

.284 Winchester=short action round
6.5-.284 Norma= long action round

I could build a 7mm Rem. Mag off of a short action if I wanted to load it with flush seated wadcutters, but what would be the point.

Wes

AND YOUR POINT IS !! If you think he should build on the 284 case, say so. Of course you may as well mention, he won't get five in the magazine, if that is important, or he may have to fiddel with the magazine rails to get it to feed, or he may have brass difficulties. Now I know none of these things are a big deal, BUT THEY SHOULD BE MENTIONED.

Jerry

Jerry,
My only point is is that you are perpetuating a common myth that the 6.5-.284 is a short action round. Nothing more, nothing less. Pointing out an inaccuracy wasn't meant to piss you off.

I don't know what all the bold type is about, but I must have touched a sensitive nerve and I'm guessing your 6.5-06 is your pet rifle. My favorite round is 6.5x55mm and I don't really have a horse in this race. I hope the original poster is happy whatever he decides to build and could care less which he chooses. If you read my original post, you would see that I feel the two rounds are ballistically identical and both are fine rounds.

Again, if you read my first post, I did mention difficulty with getting 5 round in the magazine.

As far as feeding problems.. I would imagine that some CRF rifles might have some difficulty with timing, but it is hard to imagine the 6.5-284 having trouble feeding from a Remington. I personally loath the Rem. 700, but have never had trouble with them feeding anything.

Brass difficulties? Could you please elaborate? I would like to know what "brass difficulties" I should have seen by now out of my 6.5-.284 Norma.

Regards,
Wes

Wes:
Nothing here to get "pissed about. I respect everyones opinion. And I like the 284 case!

As to the "myth" of short action etc, its all a matter of how it is throated, and where one wants to seat the bullet. If you recall, the reason the 284 Win. failed, is because of its use in short action magazines, which inhibited its comparative performance relative to the 270, and 7X64.

As to brass, you can always get 06 brass, no big deal though! As to cost, I don't think that is an issue.

Unfortunately, the 6.5-06 I have is not my favorite, it has never been my best shooter. That said I have shot antelope, coyotes, and a variety of critters with it. I think the 270 Win, or 35 Whelen might be my favorite, but I am not sure of that either! LOL!

I have built on the 06 case:

6mm-06
6.5mm-06
270 Win (2)
30-06 (5)
338-06
35 Whelen

a 25 and 7mm are probably in the cards sometime in the future.

Regards

Jerry

I guess the reason that I mentioned the 6.5/284 in the first place is it's reputation for fine accuracy, wind bucking ability, and some fine newer bullets for hunting.

If it's true that the 6.5-06 is just as accurate, I think that it would be much easier to buy and use brass for the 06'. If I read the posts correctly, I can still load the "very long bullets" with the cartridge.

I would love to use something other than the Rem 700 action, however I don't have an extra thousand laying around right now. Also I'm left handed, I know, I know, right bolt, left bolt, right eject, bottom eject. But again, I just wanted a nice trued action with a good barrel for a nice long range varmint rifle.

Lots to think about, thanks

Mike

Hello,
If you want to know the real world data about the two calibers you mention, suggest you contact Mr. A. Warner @
www.warner-tool.com and he can give you solid advise I am sure. He is a builder of long range rifles of all sorts and does very fine work in all respects. Long range shooters all over the world use his products and depend on him for technical input as well precise machine work. Just a suggestion.

To get the most from the 6.5x.284 it needs a std. action where you can load those lovely long bullets out where you need them. If all you wanted was a varminter, then you could squeeze by w/ the SA. Nothing wrong w/ the 6.5-06 but you'll have a bit more loading versatility w/ the 6.5x.284 in the long action. The other up side to the 6.5x.284 is you can buy good brass from Lapua or Hornady & not have to make it. I would think necking down from 06 will require case neck prep. Dies are also readily available in 6.5x.284.

AT22-250:

As you can see by our posts, there are a couple of "camps" in which one can belong! I am in the 06 camp, and this, is an interesting conondrum. A couple of my buddies shoot 6.5/284's, and they are tack drivers, but next to my 6.5-06, they get left in the dust. For whatever reason, I am able to attain higher vels than they are. I know the 2 cartridges are supposed to be the same, who knows.

Here's what I do for brass, I use Remington 270 Winchester Brass, and just neck it down to 264. Of course I also trim it, as my throat is set up for the 63mm case, and not the 64. You could have Pac-Nor throat your barrel for the 270 lenght neck, and not have to trim like I do. I use Remington brass, as I use Winchester in my 270's.

Use that Remington action, its not like we need a CRF for dangerous game, and they do build very nicely.
Jerry

I went on a lark a few years ago with some 6.5s and ended up with both a 6.5-284 Win. and a 6.5-06AI. The differences are minor, at best. Both shoot at 1/2" at 100yds if I do my part. Both are hunting rifles, not long range heavy rifles. The AI has a 24" #3 Douglas with a 1:9 and the 6.5-284 has a 20" 1:9 MRC barrel. Both have their ups and downs. I make the AI from 270 brass trimmed, necked down and fireformed. The 6.5-284 was built before any "standard" and since I can't see spending twice as much for brass that has a headstamp on it, I neck down Winchester 284 brass with out a problem.

Since I don't think any 6.5 needs anything heaver than 140 grain bullets, the twist rates are fine. The 6.5-284 is built on an intermediate mauser action (FR-8) so there is no seating problems with the lighter bullets I like to shoot. The feed rails did take quite a bit of manipulation, not for timing the CRF, but just to get it to feed through the narrow rails. (It was originally a 308) I did the mods myself, so no real issue. I figured I screwed up bigger things in my life than cartridge feeding.

All that being said, it is a wash. If I had a long action and it was my decision, I would do the 6.5-06, without the AI, and be just as happy. Use 270 brass, trim, size and shoot.

I am confused now,..if you are having a chamber cut custom, how can the loading versatility between the 6.5x284 and the 6.5-06 be any different?????? If you ask for it to be throated for the 140's, either chambering can load anything. If I am setting it up for max powder capacity with Loooong pills, I have a seperate throating reamer cut the throats long.

I have the 6.5-06AI and it is impressive in the accuracy dept. (26" pacnor select match). It really is a neat chambering IMO.

Mag. length justc. Given the long 139-142gr match bullets in 6.5, a std. 3.4"+ mag box, you can load the longer bullets out a bit farther in the 6.5x.284. This gets you a bit more powder cap. & you are still into the lands if you want. That's why the 6.5x.284 in a true SA w/ a 2.8"+ mag. doesn't work for me. You have to deep seat to get it to feed & you lose quite a bit of powder cap.

Ok Ok -- I suppose I've made my mind up.

A Pac-Nor Super-Match Barrel chambered in 6.5-06AI. About $400 chambered, maybe fluted, I know, may not do anything at all, however I haven't heard any negatives, plus the cost from my gunsmith to install and finish etc.

A couple of questions, 1st - how many grooves -- 3 or 5, 2nd 8 or 9 twist and 3rd varminter profile, finished at 28" (.812" end dia.) or Straight taper, finished at 26" w/(.875" end dia.)

Thanks, Mike

Mike,
My 6.5-284 has a 24" lightweight Shaw barrel, 1:9 twist, on a Mauser action. My 6.5-06 has a 25" light heavy Krieger barrel,1:8.5 twist, on a pre-64 model 70 action. Both shoot great, 2 peas in a pod. Personaly I am not a fluted barrel lover as they add nothing to the function or the astetics of the finished rifle.
In respect to the length of barrel, where do you want the rifle to balance at? This will detrurmane length and shape of your barrel.
Good luck, Doug

Since you stated that it was long range varmint with double duty as deer and antelope, I would go: 1:9 twist as you do not need anything heaver than 130 grain bullets and this twist is fine for 140 HUNTING bullets. I shoot 120 BT in my 6.5-06AI and 125 Partition and 129 Hornady in my 264WM with great long range success. I would also go varminter profile, but at 26" and fluted. I don't think the flutes do much for you except cut a little weight, but I like the looks. Can't say about the grooves, I would just take the Pac-nor recommendation.

Just my opinions.

Sent you a PM

guess that was a consideration,..the mag length issue. I single feed my rounds mainly because I can do it almost as fast and don't therefore pay any attention to mag sizes, just the ejection port sizes. I would think that the 6.5x284 would need bullets VERY deep seated to make a SA work. My 6.5x55AI will NOT eject a loaded round from the SA it is built on.

also, my suggestion is 3 or 4 groove and 8 twist or 8.5 twist.

My 4 groove select match in 8.5 twist is absolutely wicked with 140gr amax's (finished .920" at muzzle)

Just for everyone's information, 6.5-06 brass is available with the proper headstamp from Midway. It is A-square brass as they have legitimized the cartridge.

Fast Ed

With my 6.5-06,I've had the best performance with Sierra's 142G. MK

I have wanted to build a 6.5 for quite awhile now. I have a VZ 24 that I might use , but I am in no hurry.
If I build on a long action, I prefer a long cartridge. But a 6.5 X57 would be good too.
You can't go wrong with a 6.5 if you look at the BCs and sectional density of .264 bullets clearly they are among the best.
with a 130 grain barnes bullet it would be as deadly as anything on critters up through caribu.
...tj3006

I have the 6.5-06 and I can say this about it. Go into any gun shop in the country and you'll find one hell of a lot more cases to make 6.5-06's on than you will 6.5-284's. I really don't understand the appeal of the 284 case. Oh yea, the advantage of the 6.5-270 is that it is a factory cartridge......in Europe.I think its called the 6.5x68.

In truth, you'll probally not be able to tell the difference between your 270 and the 6.5's you mentioned when using the same weight bullet's. But you will find better match bullets in 6.5. The thing I like most about my 6.5-06 is that nobody else where I live has one! Were I being sensible, I'd have had a 280 Rem made!