Those of you that have had experience in shooting these two bullets, what has been your findings on:

1. Accuracy?

2. Explosiveness?

3. Penetration differences?

Thanks.

TEANCUM,

1. I wasn't thrilled with the accuracy of either of these bullets.

2. Both are very explosive, that is what they are designed to do.

3. If you want any "penetration" you will have to slow them WAY down.

Jim

My .243 Ruger varmint loves the 58gr Horn. As far as the repeatability the 58 holds its own with most every other bullet I use in that rifle. I have never tried the 55gr. Nosler.The Hornady expands ( if that's the right word) rather rapidly. It might not be the ticket for larger varmints. I've shoot smallish wild dogs and some coyotes with well placed heavier bullets and they picked themselves up and ran off. roger

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1:
TEANCUM,

1. I wasn't thrilled with the accuracy of either of these bullets.

2. Both are very explosive, that is what they are designed to do.

3. If you want any "penetration" you will have to slow them WAY down.

Jim

If you have not gotten accuracy out of a 55 grain Ballistic Tip in a 243, try a load of 22.5 grains of Blue Dot and the Nosler or the 58 gr/ 65 grain V Max. I have two problem child 243s, and this brought both rifles who usually average 2 to 3 inch groups and made them down into groups that could be covered with a dime!

Any of these bullets with the 22.5 grains of Blue Dot will give 3350 fps or better out of the muzzle and will penetrate enough to take down any antelope or anteloped size deer. Try the Nosler into a piece of wood and check out the penetration capabilities. It will shock you. It certainly did me.!

Cheers
seafire

Seafire

I was hoping that you would respond to this question, judging from some of your posts in the past. I am loading 47.3 gr. of Varget with the Nosler BT for 4060 fps in a Remington CDL and the thought came racing through my mind about a possible application to hunting the same animals that you referred to in your post - - antelope and small deer with that combo of speed and flat trajectory. ( I know others do not agree but that's ok too) I did have an unpleasant experience with a 22-250 55 gr. Nosler BT at around 3680 fps on a medium muley buck that was remedied the next year by using a Barnes X in a 53 gr. pill. At 345 lazered yard a 2x2 buck was struck as if by lightening. I think I'll follow your advice and do some testing of both bullets for penetration, however my load will have the higher velocity. Thanks again for the input.

quote:

I did have an unpleasant experience with a 22-250 55 gr. Nosler BT at around 3680 fps on a medium muley buck

What did you expect?

There's a difference between the intent of both Nosler and Barnes with those two bullets, one is for varmints, one is for something bigger. Velocity is not the problem, it's bullet construction. Do the responsible thing and stop using varmint pills on big game.

Teancum,

Both of those bullets shoot very well in my new Kimber. The seating depth of 2.6" or less must be used for top accuracy.

I am using the 55 Nosler for a reduced load and the 58 gr Horn. for the full power load. The two different bullets are just to tell the loads apart.

The 58 gr has been so good that I never even played with another load past the first work up. The reason for that is that I can see the bullets hit out of this rifle and thats rare for me and I am not going to fool with it.

I am using only 44.5 grs of IMR 4064 and getting 3750 fps out of a 22" barrel. I could not care less if someone is getting 4300 fps out of a wildcat. I am very happy with this rifle and load.

This 40 lb coyote was hit when it was walking fast at 293 yds. You can see some of the guts in the hole. When the bullet hit the coyote's rear went over its head and it rolled over and lay there.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Seafire

I was hoping that you would respond to this question, judging from some of your posts in the past. I am loading 47.3 gr. of Varget with the Nosler BT for 4060 fps in a Remington CDL and the thought came racing through my mind about a possible application to hunting the same animals that you referred to in your post - - antelope and small deer with that combo of speed and flat trajectory. ( I know others do not agree but that's ok too) I did have an unpleasant experience with a 22-250 55 gr. Nosler BT at around 3680 fps on a medium muley buck that was remedied the next year by using a Barnes X in a 53 gr. pill. At 345 lazered yard a 2x2 buck was struck as if by lightening. I think I'll follow your advice and do some testing of both bullets for penetration, however my load will have the higher velocity. Thanks again for the input.

teancum:

Thanks for the Kudos.

If you have read some of my work on those bullets however, you will see that I do not recommend the higher velocity. The bullet will actually come apart at the higher velocities.

At under 3000 fps especially, try shooting some into some wood media, like a tree with a diameter or a hunk of wood with a 6 to 8 inch diameter.

At 2800 to 3000 fps the 55 grain Ballistic Tip will amaze you on how much it will penetrate yet how much damage it will do like a Partition.

At the 3600 or higher, it will actually act like a small bomb. I am not sure that is the effect you would want on deer. It will still be quite flat shooting at 3000 fps or so.

For an accuracy and velocity load, in my problem child 243s, I have gone the opposite end of the spectrum and know that both are one hole shooters with 50 grains of H 380 and the 55 grain Ballistic tip. MV is about 4050 out of a 22 inch barrel Ruger and 4100 fps out of a 24 inch Barrel Winchester. That turns prairie dogs inside out!

Whatever way you go tho, good luck to you on the project.

cheers
seafire

Savage,

nice shot and nice coyote!

cheers
seafire

I use the 55gn Nosler at 4030 FPS out of my .243 Ackley . This is about 180 FPS below max but accuracy is 3's to 5's for 5 shot groups . Frankly I was quite surprised at the amount of pentration I am getting . More than I expected not less.

What did you expect?

There's a difference between the intent of both Nosler and Barnes with those two bullets, one is for varmints, one is for something bigger. Velocity is not the problem, it's bullet construction. Do the responsible thing and stop using varmint pills on big game.[/QUOTE]

DigitalDan

Thanks for your remarks. My original request was for those that have had experience using the two bullets mentioned. Would you like to share what your experience was? The unpleasant experience experience with the medium muley buck referred to was that it took two shots at 270 yards to anchor him. Are all you big game kills one shot? Thanks for jumping to the conclusions that support your own opinions. Again I would like to hear about your experience with the Nosler BT and the V-Max out of a 243, not opinions but experience. Waiting.

Bushchook

Thanks for your reply. Can you elaborate on the penetration that you are getting. Is this from shooting some of the critters "Down Under?" If so, can you furnish some of the details on the performance of the Nosler BT 55 gr., and the size of the animals, and the shot location. My favorite Uncle is from Austrailia and is always emailing me his best jokes. Thanks and looking forward to hearing from you and your "experience".

At the moment I am using the 55gr BT under 37gr of VVN133 for 3,450fps on our small muntjac deer in some confined spaces.

These little deer are about the size of a small labrador dog.

I have shot 6 with this bullet of which there have been 4 exits. The two non exits involved shoulders and/or some angle.

The base appears to give it a reasonable amount of penetration.

The targets shown were fired today at 200 yds. The ones fired with the 58 gr VMax are the upper left and the third from the left on the top row. I pulled the second shot to the left some on the third target. This is typical performance from that bullet and load.

There was a puffy breeze of up to maybe 8 mph.

This rifle weighs only five pounds three ounces so this is good accuracy

Savage 99

Thanks for the pictures showing your experience with the accuracy of the VMax; those are outstanding groups and speak well of your rifle and your marksmanship.

Teancum ,
The 55 Nosler seems to hold together better than I expected for a 55 gn varmint bullet at over 4000 FPS . Frankly I wasn't expecting it to exit a kangaroo's chest at ranges of 150 yards or less . I actually killed 2 with the first shot in anger out of this rifle . Roos can weigh up to 150 lbs or a little more but when culling , some young animals may only be 1/3 that weight . These 55 Noslers will easily do the job out to 300 yards with well placed shots on the larger animals .
Haven't tried the 58 Hornady but the 75 gn works well for me too .Not as accurate in my rifle as the little Nosler .

My curiosity button was pushed so I went through all my.243 data. What I found was that the 58gr. Vmax. bullet is the MOST repeatable bullet with almost any powder. Other bullets do just as well with a given load and powder but accross the board with most powders the 58 grainer gives superior results. roger

bartsche,

I know you said "with almost any" powder. But what would be your pick for most accurate/best for the 58 in the .243? I may visit the 58 again. I don't need your pet load, just what your thoughts are for best powder.

Thank you.

Jim

I have to agree with Savage 99 that the 58 grain V-Max with IMR 4064 is the combination that works great.

My Savage 243 loves the 58 grain V-Max with 44 grains for 3735 fps.

My Ruger MkII 243 prefers 43.5 grains for 3700 fps.

The 58 grain V-Max is one of the top three accuracy varmint bullets in both guns. They turn ground squirrels into red chunky rain but I don't know how they penetrate in anything bigger.

pdhntr JIM
"I know you said "with almost any" powder. But what would be your pick for most accurate/best" for the 58 in the .243? I may visit the 58
Jim[/QUOTE]

I'll give you the best of what I've got for the 58 gr.
1. 43gr. A4064 sub moa
2. 35.2 gr. A2460 sub moa
3. 42.5gr.wcc846, 3600fps, 15 shot 3/4" group dirty 50 yds.
4. 22gr.blue dot 3150fps, 7 shot 3/8" group, 50yds.
5. 22.3gr. 2400, 3050fps. 3 shot 3/8" group sooty
6. 36gr. WCC844, 5 shot 1/4"group, 50 yds.3250 fps.
7. 25gr. 2400, 15 shots in 4 min. 3/4" group 50yds., 3300 fps. barrel only slightly warm.
8. 45gr. WCC846 3800 fps, 5shot 3/8"grp. 50yds.sooty.

I have 127 data entries in the last 2 yrs for the .243 alone. That's close to 1500 rounds at targets alone through this Ruger mod. 77 varmint barrel.

There is a lot of repeatability to be had and increased barrel life by going to 4759, 680, Blue Dot, or 2400. roger

Roger,

What powder is your favorite for reduced loads? And what is the 4759 load, seating depth and primer?

Savage 99,

First I haven't tried 4759 w/ the 58 grainerbut I'l give you what I do have in the .243 with 4759
1. 65gr. V max. 26 gr. 4759, rp cases, CCI mags. OAL= 2.740!!!, single shot no velocity 100 yds. 5 shot 1/2" group

2. 80 gr. psp. Rem. 26 gr. 4759, rpni cases, WLR, OAL=2.710. Tack driver 100 yds.

3. 68gr. berger s hp. 27.6gr. 4759, Win cases, WLRM, OAL= 2.700", 2925fps. super at 100 yds.

4. 68gr bergers hp. 26.5gr 4759, 2860 fps. rp cases, WLRM, OAL= 2.700

5. 75gr. Horn. HP 27gr 4759, win cases, WLR. 2930 fps. windy, 13 shots in 5 min. 3/8" group at 50 yds. barrel only luke warm.

6. 80gr.psp. Sierra, 27 gr. 4759, win cases, WLR. OAL=? 2900fps, 13 shot 3/8" group at 50 yds.

80gr. psp.w/c, bulk ? 24gr. surplus 680, FC cases, WLR, OAL=2.697, 2500fps, 10 shot 1/2" group, at 50 yds.

80gr. Sierra psp. 24gr. 680, FC cases, WLR, Oal= 2.697", 2460 fps, cool barrel after 8 rapid shots. first 7 were in a 3/8" group. The 8th opened it up to a 1/2" group at 50 yds.

One of these days I'll get to the 58 grain bullets again and definitly will mate them to 4759.

Hope you can use this stuff. roger

Thanks Roger. I really like 4759 as it cannot be double charged with loads like that.

Roger,

Thanks again for the info. I checked my records last night and WAS able to get one good group from the 58, but it was slow. As soon as I started to run the speed up on that bullet, the groups opened up to 1/2 to 3/4 inch. Will try a different powder.

Jim

Try seating these bullets deep. In the 243 1 use a col of 2.595"

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Try seating these bullets deep. In the 243 1 use a col of 2.595"

Sadly,maybe, I have seated bullets out to 2.8"OAL and not showed any evidence of getting into th rifling. Deep Throat??????? No biggy though at my age the rifle regardless shots better than I do. Have you ever measured your pulse rate while looking through your varmint scope? Please tell me I'm not the only one. roger

Any of these bullets with the 22.5 grains of Blue Dot will give 3350 fps or better out of the muzzle and will penetrate enough to take down any antelope or anteloped size deer. Try the Nosler into a piece of wood and check out the penetration capabilities. It will shock you. It certainly did me.!

Cheers
seafire[/quote]

Hello Seafire i have about 6 full tubs of bluedot and im interested in trying it in my 243, but i dont use light bullet ie 58grn,all i use are sierras 85grn HP, Hornady 87grn v max,
and 90grn lapua scenar, so what im asking is would bluedot work with the bullet weight im useing ?
many thanks mark

Savage 99,

Thanks for the tip, I will try that also.

Jim

Roger,

In my SAAMI chamber cut by the gunsmith, neither of them will get to the lands.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by chapster1:
Any of these bullets with the 22.5 grains of Blue Dot will give 3350 fps or better out of the muzzle and will penetrate enough to take down any antelope or anteloped size deer. Try the Nosler into a piece of wood and check out the penetration capabilities. It will shock you. It certainly did me.!

Cheers
seafire

Hello Seafire i have about 6 full tubs of bluedot and im interested in trying it in my 243, but i dont use light bullet ie 58grn,all i use are sierras 85grn HP, Hornady 87grn v max,
and 90grn lapua scenar, so what im asking is would bluedot work with the bullet weight im useing ?
many thanks mark[/QUOTE]

Mark:

Just seeing this, but it certainly would. I have load data posted or available on Blue Dot with the 85 and 87 grain bullets as well as 90 grainer s also. The 90 was a Speer, not the Lapua.

I have just standardized my 243 loads to all use 22.5 grains of Blue Dot regardless of Blue Weight. I do seat the bullets out as far as the magazine or throat will allow me. I own 6 different 243s, so I like the caliber as you can tell. That is not counting one 6mm Remington also.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

For anyone of those interested, once the weather is a little more cooperative, I will be wrapping up the rest of my load testing on the 243 and the SR 4759 powder. So far I have done 55 grain Nosler, the 60 grain Sierra HP, the 70 grain Speer TNT, the 75 grain Hornady HP, the 80 grain Nosler BT and the 85 grain Sierra HP and the 87 grain Hornady SP.

Still to go are the 90 grain Speer, the 95 grain Ballistic tip, the 100 grain Hornady SP and the 105 grain Speer. I may also play with the 105 grain AMax, if I feel motivated enough to buy a box to try out.

It will be a full report like the Blue Dot reports starting out low and working up to max volumes.

So stay tuned and hope the spring rains finally stop.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

thank you for the reply seafire,
id be interested in your results