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Hi guys! I am trying to decide on a new deer rifle/caliber combo for my little step-daughter. She is 10 and is small for her age (about 70 lbs.) I am thinking about getting her a .25-06 in the NEF single shot. This rifle has, I believe, a 26 inch barrel, so it would not be quite as loud as a rifle with a shorter barrel. I reload, so I can load minimum loads and let her work her way up. My LEE ballistics program shows that minimum loads with 100 to 120 grain bullets should have about 8 or 9 foot pounds of recoil. I have also considered getting her the same rifle in .280 Rem. (again because of the 26 inch barrel) and loading minimum loads with 120 to 140 grain bullets (recoil about 10 foot pounds). As a third option I have a BAR 30-06 carbine (20" barrel) that I could load 125 grain minimum loads for or just use the new Rem. 125 managed recoil load for her. Regardless of which rifle I choose, I am going to have to get the stock cut down substantially for it to fit her properly. I am leaning toward giving her the BAR because I believe it would kick a little less, but I am wondering if the louder report of the 20" barrel would outweigh the softer recoil (yes, we both wear hearing protection). Also, since she will be shooting minimum loads I am thinking that the 30-06 or the .280 might be better than the .25-06 since the larger calibers would tend to produce larger exit holes. I would appreciate any comments on the noise vs. recoil aspect and on the relative killing power of the three calibers listed when loaded with minimum loads and soft type bullets like the Nosler Ballistic Tip. Thanks, Ole Miss Rebel | ||
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I'd go for a 243 in a youth stock set up.. you can always sell it when she gets a little bigger... and it is available with a 20 inch barrel.... or look at the Ruger Ultra Light or whatever they call the series with the 16.5 inch barrel.. I think it would be a lot better choice.. and a 243 is going to recoil a boat load less for her...and still get the job done... of course a good old 30/30 would also be a darn good choice.. untrendy, but a very functional choice... good luck.. seafire  | |||
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You might consider a .22-250, a .223 Remington or even a .222 Remington. I think even a 10 year old girl could shoot one without much complaint of recoil. | |||
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I would reccomend something in a 243 or a 250 savage. The 243 would be the more common chambering. | |||
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I started one son on a 222 when he was 8. The other kids started on a light loaded 243. A 243 would do just about anything she would need for years to come. I would not consider starting even on low power 280 or 06 loads. My 2 cents now time for coffee. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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.243win or .260rem, both of these calibers will serve her well, and not induce flinch. Rusty's Action Works Montross VA. Action work for Cowboy Shooters & Manufacturer of Stylized Rigby rifle sights. http://i61.photobucket.com/alb.../th_isofrontleft.jpg | |||
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I would think a 26" inch barrel would be rather nose heavy for s 70LB person. The little ruger or a model 7 in .260 or .243 or even my favorite deer round the .257 Roberts would be some good choices. The Model 7 youth rifle might be a great choice, it comes with a short stock ,and as she grows you could just add a 1 inch pad. I sure would pass on a 22 caliber, I know you can kill a deer with them but you better make a great shot. a 6.5 swede or a 250,3000. would be hard to beat also...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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A 70 lbs. child can't be very stong, so a light weight low recoiling rifle/cartridge combination like a Ruger 44 carbine might be a good choice. Another short range option might be a 222 or 223 with 60 grain Partitions or 64 grain PowerPoints. Jeff | |||
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 Stevens Mod. 200 in .223. Even if you do a so-so job of shortening the stock You don't loose a lot.  I gave a cousin of mine,who is slight built, a Browning light weight .257 Roberts and it hurts him. The 25-06 may not be a good choice for a small framed girl.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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A young person that size is going to very conscious of two things weight and recoil and they can take the fun out of shooting pretty quickly for a kid. For a start a little bigger bullet would probably be best since the shooting skills are not as honed as they will be in a few years. Both of the guns that come to mind have very reasonable recoil and will easily harvest deer. They are the .260 and the 7MM/08. In addition both of them can successfully be down loaded and there is enough gun that as your young hunter gets older it’s still going to handle their hunting needs if they expand. Both are available in Remington’s Model 7 with a 20†barrel to overcome your young hunters possible heavy barrel problems. The Model 7 has a youth version available with the shorter stock. Another possible option is the Tikka T3. Another more costly option would be to rebarrel a rifle as a .257 Roberts a very pleasant and low recoiling arm. Recoil Chart Good luck with that young hunter and building lots of good memories. Roger has a good example above and a brake may be a real help in this case also. | |||
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I bought my son a Remington 788 in 243, that rifle was a real tack driver out of the box. 243's are pleasant to fire in fact I bought an Encore 243 rifle barrel to use on blacktail and yotes.To look up .243 recoil go to http://sst.benchrest.com . | |||
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I highly recommend the .257 Roberts to people in this situation. It is available in factory form from Ruger in a couple different configurations. I have an older one, but it has been used for coyotes and deer regularily since it's purchase. My 10 year old son is now using it. He may weigh all of 70 lbs soaking wet. The 100gr bullets are a bit more than enjoyable but he said they're "ok". He really liked the 75's and they were loaded about mid level. The Roberts can launch heavier bullets for deer, and as a young one grows it can be stoked with hotter loads. It performs very well on game. That said, the .243W is quite popular, much as I dislike it.(I'll explain) The .260R and 6.5x55 are about equals in performance, and that's nothing to scoff at! The 7mm-08 seems to me to be a bit much for smaller kids. You could get a .25-06 and load it down, but the Roberts when handloaded properly is nipping it's heals, and I like using properly headstamped brass as much as possible, especially for kids! There isn't a thing wrong with a .30-30 loaded with 150's either. On the .243W..... I'll probably catch crap over this but it's my opinion that the .243W and other 6mm and smaller rounds should only be used by more seasoned hunters. The bullets MUST land perfectly to avoid wounding. The .243W isn't so bad with Nosler Partitions, as it was with standard bullets. They will penetrate enough that a hit into shoulder bones or spine will still turn in good results. I just have a bad taste for it left over from many years ago I suppose. The bigger bullets seem to do better when the shot is slightly errant. I know placement is everything but a bigger hole bleeds more even if it's not in the right spot. The .22 centerfires have come a long way but I've not used them enough to have any confidence in them. My .22 centerfire experience has been limited to head shots on deer. I'm drawing a line here that's in the gray I know, but it has to be somewhere. I know others who recommend the .260 as minimum for a beginner,.... just in case. My first deer fell to one shot from a .30-30 loaded with 150gr. Winchester Silvertip's and it wasn't perfect placement on a bouncing young buck, but I was a bouncing young buck shortly after the shot! So here we have one of the meekest, most mild mannered rounds, delivering a "dropped in it's tracks" kill, that can't be any more well done by anything any bigger. The bullet was well matched to the velocity and the target. The .30-30 has probably been the most widely use deer rifle to date. It has been, and will continue to be, one very useful little deer slayer. What does she like? What fit's her? Nate | |||
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I'd locate a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 I have a couple and they are outstanding shooters, low recoil, lightweight, and have an excellent natural point of aim. Surplus ammo is cheap so she'll be able to practice to her heart's content. Handloads with 123 or 150 grain bullets will deliver solid performace on game. John in Oregon | |||
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My 9 year old son is the same weight. He is a VERY good shot but there is no way in hell I would let him shoot any of the suggested rounds - it's just asking for a flinching habit. He shot his first game with a 5.6x50R (stretched 223 with a rim) in a single shot break open blaser K95 with a 30gr berger MEF under 6gr of unique for 2,200fps. Sounds like a 22rf with no recoil. I would say the absolute limit would be something like an 80gr single shot pistol bullet at 2,300fps in a 243, even then I would practice with 55gr bullets. Most important question - How are you going to protect her ears out in the field when hunting? | |||
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I'm with the others; youth model bolt gun with a cushy recoil pad and light loads. As for hammer guns, the instructor at my son's hunter safety course last year made a compelling case for not asking a new hunter to learn to manage an exposed hammer at the same time we ask him or her to manage muzzles, boredom, safeties, gloved fingers, improvised shooting positions, and moments of intense excitement. I also strongly recommend electronic hearing protection, not only on the range but also in the deer blind. | |||
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Gee, I always wanted a father who let me borrow his Blaser K95...  | |||
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I've started all my grandchildren on T/C Contender carbines. Each initially had either a .22LR or a .22WMR barrel. The hunting barrel installed later was a 7mmWaters. This is the 7mm based on a .30-30 case. I handload Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tips for use on mule deer. So far, all four have had great success. The guns are light (about 6 lbs w/ light scope), have a hammer to cock, and one shot to be concerned about. Do have one problem, both dads seem to enjoy carrying and shooting these carbines! .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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If you train your child in the use of firearms and spend time practicing they'll be able to hit what they aim at using any weapon however a 243 is easy to start a youngster on w/o much recoil,after learning on the Rem 788 my son graduated to a JC Higgins 30-06 (with an FN receiver).I started him on a 20g Rem 870 and he advanced to a 12g Rem 870 TB rapidly. practicing. | |||
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Starting a child on a light single shot like the NEF is a bad choice, they simply are too light, if they cannot handle the weight of a youth rifle like the M77 and WBY Vanguard ones, they really aren't ready to hunt IMHO. A rifle they will practice with comfortably is the way to go. One can always give them a single shell rather than a magazine full, once they have shot that they can ask for another. At this point learning the fundamental rather than instant success should be first on our minds. That said .243, 6mm Rem, .250 Savage, .257 Roberts all make wonderful choices as they are mild effective and easily down loaded or hot rodded as the child grows into hunting. | |||
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How about the 6.8 Rem????? It should serve her for a long time. Also the Barnes 110 TSX will more than adequately handle any deer. | |||
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How about one of the Weatherby Vanguard youth models in .243? They come with two stocks included, one youth and one adult that she could grow into. When you need it and don't have it you'll be singing a different tune. | |||
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Like I said...
I don't think I've done to bad starting my boys.First coyotes for both. First picture is of my youngest at 7 years old, his brother is 10.   This was a couple years ago.  I'm not impressed with the .243W, but read what I wrote. It will work. But it isn't my first choice. I wouldn't pass up a screamin' deal on one. Nate | |||
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I got a savage youth 243 for my kids. My 3rd one will use it this deer season. Haven't lost a deer or antelope with it yet. As soon as all my kids use it, I plan on restocking it and use it myself on varmints. | |||
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Use a .243, if the kick is still too much, pull the buttplate off, drill a one inch hole fill it with no. 9 shot. A kid that young will be shooting off a rest anyway, so weight isn't a problem. My son started out with a .220 Swift at 8, real life experience tells me the .22's will kill deer pretty well on broadside shots as the total distance they have travelled is about 3 feet on a dozen deer. Deer are easy to kill, use a .243 with 100 grain plain vanilla Sierras or Hornadys at 2900-3000 fps. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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You might consider a single shot like a No. 1 Ruger. Nothing like a single shot to get the idea of first shot importance thru to a new shooter. I really like the Roberts which would go nicely in a No. 1 The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
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My sub-70 pound 10 year old daughter shoots a Ruger Deerfield 44 mag carbine. My 12 year old daughter shoots a CZ 527 30 Russian. Both are great guns for kids. I kept the autoloader as a single shot until the 10 year old was better trained. Both guns have killed deer and large Axis deer. I would never have suggested a 223 as a kids gun until recently. I saw a rather large Axis deer shot through and through on a quartering away shot with a CZ 527 in 223 shooing Wolf Golden Bear soft point ammo. Great penetration and expansion left a fantastic blood trail. The little CZ carbines are wonderful guns and are scaled for smaller shooters. The Ruger gives you the added recoil reduction of a gas operated autoloader. Perry | |||
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Hi guys! Just thought I would let everyone know what rifle I finally decided on for my step-daughter. Today I bought her a new Stevens model 200 in 7-08, took off the hard buttpad and put on a slip-on Sims libmsaver pad, and mounted a Nikon 3/9 Buckmaster. I am going to reload a light 100 or 120 grain bullet at minimum load for her to practice with. I have a Caldwell Lead Sled, so she can shoot as much as she wants without getting kicked at all. When deer season rolls around, I am going to either let her shoot a 120 grain ballistic tip or a 140 grain ballistic tip (both loaded at minimum, of course). I believe that either one of these bullets will perform well at these lower velocities and will kill deer very well. Thanks for all the comments. They really helped. Ole Miss Rebel | |||
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you probably made a good choice...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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Ole Miss ya got the caliber I was going to suggest, specially for a reloader! I just (today) ordered the Savage Mod.14 American Classic in 7mm-08. I will be stuffing 140grn Accubonds in the case for this one, just a suggestion to try the same for her. Dang good bullet!! Also wanted to give you a big for passing on the great tradition!  Smedley ______________________ Smedley  ______________________ From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' B.H.Obullshitter ------------------------------------ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" Winston Churchill ------------------------------------ "..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." Samuel Adams ------------------------------------ Facts are immaterial to liberals. Twisted perceptions however are invaluable. ------------------------------------ We Americans were tired of being thought of as dumb, by the rest of the world. So we went to the polls in November 2008 and removed all doubt.....let's not do it again in 2012 please. | |||
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Don't know about you but I always found my 30-30 more unpleasant to shoot than my 30-06. I always presumed it was because the lighter rifle delivered more recoil. | |||
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Find a youth size setup in 7mm08. Load it with Seirra 100 gr Gameking HPs and it shoots like a 243. As she gets older load it a little heavier and add a recoil pad for length as she gets taller. I have owned a lot of guns over the years but the 7mm08 is the sweetest deer rifle that I have ever owned. My personal choice is the 140TSX but I practice with the cheap Seirra 100 grs and my 97 pound wife loves shooting it also except the length is not good for her. Never lost a deer with it and never shot one twice. | |||
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You're loading in 7-08 what I reload for my grandchildren with the 7-30Waters; an excellent choice! That 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip has anchored a number of Colorado mule deer. .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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I think a 25'06 will be too much recoil, too heavy and too loud. I like .243, 257 or .260 better for the application. After my small framed son had practiced plenty with a Rem 541 .22. I bought him a Model Seven in .243 and had the trigger lightened some and stock cut down to fit him. Using good ear protection and 75 gr. factory loads he didn't mind practicing with the gun enough to become proficient. He could carry it without too much trouble. He also learned his range limitations well. When he turned 11 we switched to heavier factory loads for deer and his first day out he killed two, one of which was a nice buck. As he grew I added a pull over recoil pad and then restocked the gun with a factory composite stock. The gun shot very well and I used it myself as a mountain gun for whitetail for a few years. He's in college now and last weekend he told me he wasn't using the gun any more and asked if I wanted to buy from him it to teach his nephew to shoot. I jumped at it. Sei wach! | |||
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i know you've already made you decision and i think you did good. but i can't resist chiming in anyway  my 8 year old daughter is only about 51 pounds. she's going to sit in the stand with me this year and shoot(hopefully??) her first deer next(2007) deer season. i hope she grows a little i've been thinking about her first deer rifle and i have decided to buy a cz 527 in 7.62x39. i'll handload it light until she gets the hang of it and then a little hotter when she's ready to hunt. and later i may rebarrel it to 6.5PPC(i already have the reamer and headspace gauges) the more i think about it...i may build one for myself as well good luck to you and the youngun...bud blaming guns for crime is like blaming silverware for rosie o'donnell being fat | |||
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Budiceale, I think you have the best answer. I don't have the young 'un, but I do have the CZ 527 in 7.62x39. It's almost good enough to make me go out and get another young 'un to shoot it. Only drawback is that I have not been able to find a peep sight to fit. Scoping it added significantly to the weight. Elevation adjustment for the open iron sights is done by changing the front sight blade so you will need an assortment of those. For training purposes, don't overlook the Hornady swaged SWC for .32 pistols. They are very inexpensive and shoot well at about 1000 fps. They are too soft for higher velocities, but reduce noise and recoil to about .22 WMR levels. It is a good citizen's duty to love the country and hate the gubmint. | |||
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I know that you have already made your choice but here are my two cents. I was in this postion prior to last deer season. After much consideration I ended up buying a Styer Pro Hunter in 243. The main reason was the versatility and low recoil of the 243 combined with the short barrel lenght of the Styer produced a rifle that my 10 year old could handle easily. The other advantage of the Pro Hunter is that there are spacers in the but that allow the stock to be shortened to about 12.5" and by replacing the spacers the LOP can be increased bas my son grows. Up front cost was a little high due to the cost of the Styer but this was offset by the fact that I would not have to purchase another gun as he grew. Again, just my two cents. | |||
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I've loaded 243 for a niece and a nephew consisting of a 87gr v match and Accurate 5744 powder that was very light in recoil and deadly on deer. They were loaded to little over 2200 fps. I cannot remember the charge weight, but I got the load reccomendation from calling Accurate. Joe A. | |||
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Seems to me your choice of the .25/'06 is as good as any, and better than anything smaller. If you start her out with mild loads, that would kill as well as a .243, and when she's up to a heavier load, it only gets better. Of course, you can do the sam with the .270 Win. or one of the 7mm's, the 7mm'08 or .280 Rem., as you mentioned...... "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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