Well I finally put my new doe rifle to the test. It's a Savage 200 with a 24 inch Adams & Bennet barrel in 22-250 on it. The scope is a 4x leupold and it is sighted one inch high at 100 yards. The first test saturday evening was a 150 pound feral hog, hit in the head with a 60 gr. HP he dropped. These bullets was bought as a Blems from Midsouth several years ago and look like Hornady 60 gr. HP's except they are cannelured and appear to have the point of the bullet swaged in a bit to make the HP smaller. The bullet did not exit the hogs head as it angled downward and hit the far side jaw bone. The doe however was shot at 150 yards behind the shoulder low enough that the spine was not hit. She was angled toward me a bit and the exit hole was much farther back than the entrance wound. The hole on the entrance side ribs is about 1 1/2 inches across, the far side right at an inch but the hole in the hide only half an inch. The lungs were still in their normal shape but had a 3 inch hole thru them. The deer staggered at the hit, went down but got up and ran 30 feet or so before going down for good. Interestingly there was no speckling of lead in the far side rib cage and the bullet came close to the spine but did not actually hit it. I like being able to see the bullet hit the deer due to low recoil. The load used was 38.9 grs. of H414 for around 3500 fps. When I shot the deer the bullet hit the hillside behind it and whined off into space. This bullet seems to penetrate deer pretty well.

I've seen a couple of .22-250s used on does with great effect. One friend has a Tikka Continental Varmint that is an honest 1/4" gun with factory Hornady 50 grain V-Max. He uses it for head and neck shots only as well as head shots on hogs. It's actually a pretty stout little bullet. I've seen a couple of exit wounds from ear shots on smaller hogs.

Another acquaintance is shooting 55 grain Ballistic Tips out of his. He's had some spectacular kills with those into the lungs. I've seen the results. The lungs can only be described a purpleized.

One of our posters (Vapodog, maybe) is a big fan of the Hornady 60 grain HP for small deer.

If you're thinking of head or neck shots, you might want to think about a little more magnification to help precise shot placement on longer shots.

LWD

Palidun--I really don't understand why the 22-250 would be limited to does. A well placed bullet in a buck will give same results. I have shot only one deer with my 22-250 and it was a doe. If the bullet you are using works it is the one to use. Using cast bullets I have shot a great number of jackrabbits with my 22-250.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Palidun--I really don't understand why the 22-250 would be limited to does. A well placed bullet in a buck will give same results. I have shot only one deer with my 22-250 and it was a doe. If the bullet you are using works it is the one to use. .....

I agree. I've used the 22-250 moving along at 3800fps with a Barnes 53 grain to take 2 point mule deer at 345 yards. DRT. If that bullet combination is working for you stay with it and move on to other game. The 22-250 is wonderful on antelope if that is in the future.

I found I've greatly increased the efficiency of the .224 bullets by loading them on the upper end of the velocity spectrum while searching for the most accurate combination. It flattens out the trajectory and make range estimation less critical. P.O. Ackley, a old time gunsmith, was a big advocate of the small caliber high velocity combination and did a lot of research and field experience in this area. His books are a great read if you can find them, as they are out of print. Carry on.

I tend to trophy hunt bucks and am willing to take shots with my 7x57 pushing 140 grain Partitions that I would not take with a 22 centerfire. I am planning to put a 3x9 Nikon on the rifle soon but it generally will be used at ranges of less than 200 yards. I looked at the hog and it turns out the bullet did exit, it went out his mouth really messing up the tongue.and a few teeth. I am thinking this bullet is a bit tough but I can't really complain. More shooting to come as the hogs are everywhere on the lease.

Palidun--Where do you hunt? The lease makes it sound possibly Texas?? I can understand if you don't have much experience with .22 cal you might be reluctant to try it on larger deer. Shot placement is the key.

Yes shot placement is the key but there are angles I will happily take that I won't put any 22 centerfire up to task. My lease is south of Childress and the bucks can weigh around 200 pounds or so. Even some of the hogs are monsters and if I can't get that just right shot I won't take it but with the 7x57 I can put it's deeper penetration to work and break bones if I want to. Over the years I have used both the 223 and 22-250 to use on a couple dozen deer but I was and am always aware that good shot placement is paramount.

Palidun--Are you from Childress? My wife was born there and has lots of relatives from Childress.

I've had good success shooting 60 grain Partitions and 64 grain PPs in 1-9", 1-10", and 1-12" ROT 22-250s. The 60 grain Partition is a sure penetrator, with 100% through/through penetration with lung shot on whitetails.

Jeff

I wouldn't really recommend it, but the fact remains that "once upon a time" here in the UK (well actually Scotland) the 220 Swift was considered as a good LONG RANGE red deer cartridge.

This was "way back when" in the 1960s (before legislation made any calibre under .240" illegal for anything but roe deer) and with old type "cup and core" bullets.

Yet even after that legislation in Scotland high velocity .22" calibres remained legal for roe deer.

That is .222 which was very popular and the .22-250 as this was before widespread availability of the .223. You even saw the odd .222 Magnum!

The .22 Hornet was however illegal as for ALL calibres a minimum velocity (2450fps) and muzzle energy (1750ft/lbs) were required such that the .22 Hornet could not attain.

Also in Eire (the Irish Republic) 22-250 was about ALL that could legally be used for ANY deer as larger calibres were illegal under their gun control laws until quite recently.

Again with proper bullet placement it seemed to work...although not IMHO ideal.

So, yes, here in Europe both the 22-250 (and the 220 Swift) have been used as cartridges for LARGE deer as well as small deer.

The unfortunate doe you shot with the .22-250 obviously was one of those without internet access, otherwise she would have realized that deer can't be killed with a .224" bullet and would not have succumbed to the mere loss of organ function cause by the too-small bullet.

Wiser deer merely trot off to recover from their non-fatal wounds when shot with a .22 Centerfire. Apparently, so long as you can keep your deer ignorant, you can keep on killing them with your .22-250.

Many years ago, before I was informed that .22 Centerfires would not kill deer, I actually took two does with a single shot from a .22-250. Today, living in the "information age", I wouldn't dare try that as the deer might know better and thus doom my effort to failure.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Palidun--Are you from Childress? My wife was born there and has lots of relatives from Childress.

No, not from Childress. I spent most of my early life in West Dallas and moved south of Fort Worth 15 years ago. I am more connected with Wichita Falls/ Holiday Texas where many of my hunting buddies live.

This 22-250 started out as a vehicle for the 224 TTH and may well still be rechambered but the lure of cheap common 243 brass has me on the fence about it. The 22-250 gives pretty good velocity with 60 gr. bullets so I may end up with a long actioned 2 shot 22-250. It does shoot very nicely though and I have 200 pieces of 22-250 brass, a 22-250 improved perhaps. Still the lure of almost 4000 fps with a 60 gr. bullet may cause me to take the bait and set up for the longer bigger case.

Palidun--Wichita Falls is my hometown--been through Holliday many times.

Had to shoot a buck with my doe rifle. The aging 9 point was angled slightly away from me facing my left at 80 yards or so, I hit him far enough back on my side so that if the bullet exited it would hopefully not hit the shoulder going out. The problem was though that the buck of around 150 pounds was also at a downhill angle and the bullet hit the back of his shoulder blade and stopped somewhere in it or under the hide. The old boy ran 50 feet and was done. I'll skin him tomorrow and collect the bullet to see what it looks like. This was on the last day you could legally take a buck in King county (yesterday morning) I had passed him up the evening before. Now yesterday evening I saw a massive 8 point, good thing I shot the old codger as that 8 will be a big ten next year and maybe I'll get a whack at him.

22/250 Not just for does anymore

Nice buck and a cute girl. Congrats on both!

Terry

Thanks Terry. Over the years I've shot a few pickups full of deer with 22 mag, 222, 225, wife has used 223 and 22/250 and daughters have taken deer with them also. I have to confess though, ONE of those deer did require a coupe de gras, my wife poked a mulie doe with a 55 grain cast bullet in 223, the deer WALKED quite a ways and laid down and the wife shot her a second time with same gun and load in the head. I really haven't been able to tell much differece in the killing of deer whether using 225 win, 300 wetherby or 458Wm(or maybe 20-30 other cartridges), other than the 458 seems to ruin less meat. But then what do I know, I don't spend that much time on the internet talking about it, I more of a getter done type guy, talk about what I KNOW to be true. Oh ya I don't own any one ragged hole guns either!

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The unfortunate doe you shot with the .22-250 obviously was one of those without internet access, otherwise she would have realized that deer can't be killed with a .224" bullet and would not have succumbed to the mere loss of organ function cause by the too-small bullet.

Wiser deer merely trot off to recover from their non-fatal wounds when shot with a .22 Centerfire. Apparently, so long as you can keep your deer ignorant, you can keep on killing them with your .22-250.

Many years ago, before I was informed that .22 Centerfires would not kill deer, I actually took two does with a single shot from a .22-250. Today, living in the "information age", I wouldn't dare try that as the deer might know better and thus doom my effort to failure.

I also took two does with my usual rifle, a 7x57 and both of them ran farther than the deer hit with the 22-250 and similar shot placement. However the 7x57 gives much better penetration and exit holes. I found the bullet from my 22-250 buried in the shoulder blade of the buck, mostly intact but in rough shape.

Deer ran after shot? With 7x57????? You must be unethical--others here they all drop dead right there.

Gettin a bit off topic but the bullets I used in the 7x57 are Nosler Ballistic Tips seconds, grey tips made me think they were from Ballistic Silvertips just not coated. Now I am thinking they may be Accubonds but they say on the plastic bag they weight 150 grains. The point is that these bullets were far less dramatic in their expansion than other Ballistic Tips of 150 grains I have used in the past.

Palidun--My comment was tongue in cheek. There are some armchair "hunters" in here that imply their deer all drop dead INSTANTLY and a deer shot with .223 that lives a minute or so is an unethical deal.

And I was alluding to possibly tougher bullet construction being the reason for those two does traveling farther than they should have. This year every deer I killed, all with one shot ran a ways, last year all but one dropped immediatly. Your right as there is no telling how a deer will react no matter what it is shot with.

From what i've been reading Nosler is making two ballistic tip bullets. The original was designed for varmint shooting. It is a very accurate bullet.
Many hunters like the accuracy so they started using it for deer and it killed either very dramaticly or just a shallow wound and the deer got lost. Nosler learned this and redesigned the bullet to not expand as quickly and they use a different color tip.
I think the original is a red tip, the new one is blue or grey.
Your bag-o-bullets might be the new design. They won't expand much. Still an accurate bullet.

On the 22-250I have killed several deer with Hornady 60 gr HP. It was one of the first .224 bullets to be designed for deer. It works very well. And at the velcity you get from a 22-250 it doubles the effective range of it shot from a 223.
Even at that a broadside, neck or straight on chest shot is the only shot I will take using the 22-250.
Anything else I pass up. I have found that if you can't or won't wait for a perfect shot placement, then a larger bullet is a better choise. I like my 270 Win for ;onger or angled shots where I might have to break a hip or shoulder. It still does a great job on the neck, chest or broad side shots.

quote:

Originally posted by 44magLeo:
On the 22-250I have killed several deer with Hornady 60 gr HP. It was one of the first .224 bullets to be designed for deer. It works very well. And at the velcity you get from a 22-250 it doubles the effective range of it shot from a 223.
Even at that a broadside, neck or straight on chest shot is the only shot I will take using the 22-250.
Anything else I pass up. I have found that if you can't or won't wait for a perfect shot placement, then a larger bullet is a better choise. I like my 270 Win for ;onger or angled shots where I might have to break a hip or shoulder. It still does a great job on the neck, chest or broad side shots.

For curiosity purposes only. I in now way want to put a spark back into the 22 cal. debate. I know from reading these posts that many of you guys have taken deer successfully with your .223, 22-250 etc,. And there are those that say you shouldn't or question the ethics of the .22 cal on deer sized game. My position has always been that if can make a clean kill than it doesn't matter what your using.So my question doesn't have anything to do with whether a .22 should be used (that's your decision) but rather why? Is it more challenging? Is it just simple affection for the cartridge? I know a guy that hunts exclusively with an original 1845 .50 cal. Springfield Flintlock using his own casted round balls and home-made black powder. He even cracks his own flint and sews his patches. He has been very successful in taking his share of deer, elk and even black bear. When you ask him why, he tells you that "nothing can beat the challenge, the nostalgia and pride that comes with hunting like our forefathers did". He will further go on and tell you that using modern equipment is just to easy and takes the spirit away from the hunt. I'll buy this and respect it as well, but Of course I'll continue to use my .308 thank you, but I still beg the question..

WhatThe--I have been using a .243. Last couple years I have seen several more taken with .222 and .223. Results--beg the question why not? I had seen many taken in years before and reflecting back almost all were taken in their tracks. Success like that, I suspect I'll use my .223 on the next one. My only deer with .22 cal was using 22-250. Reasons to use a .223/.222--minimal blast, minimal recoil, minimal meat damage, cheap to shoot and regardless wht gets said to the contrary in here--it works great. Your asking the question tells me you haven't done it nor witnessed it---or you wouldn't have asked--you'd know. I don't see it as a challenge at all. BTW nothing wrong with .308--great round. My grandson mostly uses his .308---but did use his .222 on a deer each of past 2 years.

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:

For curiosity purposes only. I in now way want to put a spark back into the 22 cal. debate. I know from reading these posts that many of you guys have taken deer successfully with your .223, 22-250 etc,. And there are those that say you shouldn't or question the ethics of the .22 cal on deer sized game. My position has always been that if can make a clean kill than it doesn't matter what your using.So my question doesn't have anything to do with whether a .22 should be used (that's your decision) but rather why? Is it more challenging? Is it just simple affection for the cartridge? I know a guy that hunts exclusively with an original 1845 .50 cal. Springfield Flintlock using his own casted round balls and home-made black powder. He even cracks his own flint and sews his patches. He has been very successful in taking his share of deer, elk and even black bear. When you ask him why, he tells you that "nothing can beat the challenge, the nostalgia and pride that comes with hunting like our forefathers did". He will further go on and tell you that using modern equipment is just to easy and takes the spirit away from the hunt. I'll buy this and respect it as well, but Of course I'll continue to use my .308 thank you, but I still beg the question..

For me hunting with a .223 is comparable to a guy that bow hunts during rifle season or those that handgun hunt. The cartridge works great but needs to be used to it's strengths. All 3 are very effective but somewhat limiting. That for me is the fun part of it. I don't hunt deer exclusively with a .223 but I do take one on occcasion with the cartridge.

I have rifles in my safe that almost reach the status of, if I see it I can kill it. I use these rifles when I'm in a wide open area where a long shot can be expected. They work great. The only thing is I find no challenge in using them.

I hunt family land 15 minutes from the house and get to go as many times as I wish in the 4 months deer season is open around here. We have a very healthy deer population here in Mississippi and it's nothing to see 15-20 deer on some day's. Filling the freezer isn't a problem, I could do it in a week if that's what I wanted to do, but I enjoy hunting too much to even consider it. A day of deer hunting isn't the "event" for me as it seems to be for many here. It cost me nothing and I go at my own leisure and harvest when I want. Seeing a deer out of range doesn't bother me in the least, it sort of adds to the exitment of hunting. When I hunt with my .223 I can't take everything I see and need to wait for the right shot at the right distance. I've seen some nice deer that didn't close the distance or present me with the shot I wanted and I had to pass. It's funny but I seem to remember those hunts far more and just as fondly as the successful hunts when I harvested.

For me personally it adds to the challange. That said it's far from a "stunt" as some have stated. The cartridge kills fast and clean in my experience, it just needs to be used to it's strengths. I enjoy it so much I even had a cute little custom built to do it with. I know some here think we all use AR-15's but that's far from the truth as are many things stated here by those who oppose it's use.


Terry

Tc1--I can relate to and agree with just about everything you said--you nailed it. Yes to many it is a big event. Opening day for example, many cant wait. Might not go back again rest of season, but have to be out on the opener. Opening day here it is still hot and I don't want to compete with the flies for a deer after I shoot it. So I wait a couple months into the season to get some colder weather and no flies. Nice looking rifle--give us the details. BTW what town Mississippi?

Just a little south of Memphis.

The rifle is a Mini Mauser. It was a team effort by Shane Thompson and James Anderson. Not much on the action has been left untouched. It sports a 1 in 8" twist Shilen barrel and sits in a beautiful Turkish walnut stock.

Here are a couple of threads with all the details.
The build
The completed rifle

It'll be at the The American Custom Gunmakers Guild (ACGG) show in Reno this February.

Terry

TC1--That's cheating. Even a deer would come up close for a look at a rifle that nice.

TC-1

That's a handsome looking shooter ya got there lad.

I knew there was something more than what some seem to believe, I too like a challenge; 200 feet with my .308 thanks. I drive/fly to my hunting grounds and have 4 to 5 days to bag my game. So my real challenge is getting to the airport on time, making sure I have all the correct licenses, tags etc., not forgetting my gun (did that once when I drove) and getting back in one piece. That's all the challenge I want!

Not near as purdy as TC1's,
but another iteration.
I call it my spare parts rifle, as it as put together out of parts I had laying around.




Sako S491 Action
Richards Micro fit laminate thumbhole stock
26" Shilen Select match stainless barrel w/ Vais brake, 1 in 8" twist.
Burris Signature 8 x 32 scope

GWB

If I were hunting public land in the thick stuff you can bet my 22-250 would not be taken on a hunt like that.

Well It's now 2013. I never rechambered my 22-250 to any bigger case but I did install a short magazine in the Long actions magazine well so I could have a more reliable second shot. The rifle has taken 4-5 more does and a legion of coyotes. I shot at a running hog but I believe the bullet was deflected by the brush as she never slowed down. I think I will make the 22-250 into my coyote rifle only so I can shoot some deer with a new toy. It is a Smith and Wesson model 1700LS in 243. I did shoot a hog in the head with it and it certainly did the hog in. The 70 gr. BT even exited or at least something caused a 50 cent size hole on the far side of his nogggin. I know the 22-250 would have done the same thing. The real reason is that I came on a really good deal involving 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and I feel that more testing has to be done!

Having culled a lot of plainsgame and shot a number of Mule Deer and whitetail deer with 22s and seen a lot shot with it..I have no problems with using the 222, 223, or 22-250 on deer size game up to 200 pounds or so..

I don't like using the 22s because they do tend to blood shoot a lot of meat, they are very destructive..I don't like head shots as one can easily shoot a bit low and break the jaw and neck shots have to hit the spine to be effective, and again that can be tricky sometimes...behind the shoulder shots are my choice, and cartridges like the 22s, 6mm's, 270 do ruin a lot of meat...all excellent rounds otherwise, flat shooting, accurate, no recoil to speak off, they kill very well indeed at reasonable ranges, all this results in success..

From my experience, using a 22-250 on mule deer, there are better cartridges to be used and bullet selection is CRITICAL ! Well placed shots with the wrong bullet won't get the job done. Quartering shots with any bullet is a coin toss. roger

Right on Mr. B........Listen to him.

We used the .22-250 and Swifts to take ME and NY whitetails in fields with 55, 70, and 63 gr cup core bullets. This was before the new whiz-bang projos and fast twists.

Completely agree about target angle and placement being key. Add to that: openness of terrain so to allow watching the animal run a ways after the hit. Then, I feel the same about the .243. Up here it is quite possible to suffer some anxious moments - or even lose an animal - that runs 125 yds dead on it's feet.

PO Ackley was not wrong in his assessment of the Swift. But he did not specify field conditions. A .22-250 or Swift is not a general purpose deer cartridge.

Sam