Several years ago, I gave my grandson a Win 88 in .308. He has taken MANY whitetails and a couple of axis and a bobcat with it. Seems like it's been a natural fit for him. At the time I gave it to him, I also gave him some military ammo with instructions for target use only. You guessed it. Yesterday he shot a nine point buck with that wrong ammo and they had a long tracking job. He had hit it a little forward. They did find it within an hour. I realize .308 should be in medium section, with all the debate about .223 and deer, I wonder how many of the few bad results that have been posted were from using full metal jacketed bullets as were used in this case? Lots of FMJ .223 bullets out there. I also gave him a Rem 600 in .222 and he dropped a spike buck in it's track with it---using the 55grain Winchester bulk packed bullet. This was several years after he received the .308.

I quit shooting after shooting some coyotes with some fmj ammo out of a 223 rifle.
My brother inn law said he was hit 7 times and still he ran off into the heavy thorn bushes.

Now it just gets used for busting rocks and I quit trying to save hides a long time ago.

I use my FMJ 5.56 ammo for plinking and shooting Zombies only. Most of the soft point ammo should work on those deer.

You can't kill a deer with a 223. It's too small & just won't work.

Scott--very true but this was a .308.

i was referring to the made up story of dropping a deer in it's tracks with a 222. never happened, impossible.

Scott--You are correct, you got me. I did indeed mention a .222 deer which we both know is impossible---NORMALLY. We used a combination of magic, voodoo, science and outright cheating. All of this, but still remained in the realm of being legal under current law. There well may be legislation pending to close the loophole. We bought a Bambi coloring book and cut out a picture and pasted it over the picture of a mouse that was on the ammo box. This does not increase the potency of the ammo, but it does confuse the deer. The deer would actually live if they could make it to Dr Phil for counselling before they die from extreme confusion.

Put a 45 TSX gr Barnes in your 222, limit shots to under 100, wait for the "bullet behind the shoulder shot" and it will kill any Whitetail that walks the earth. Might do a 50 yards "death run" if the heart is hit but if you miss that and ribs, it will probably just keep feeding until it falls over.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter: Might do a 50 yards "death run" if the heart is hit but if you miss that and ribs, it will probably just keep feeding until it falls over.

And how long might that take? Really just stirring the pot I don't use 22's for deer but won't knock it till I try it.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
if you miss that and ribs, it will probably just keep feeding until it falls over.

It might do a 1000 yard run out of sight too.
I have never seen a deer shot with anything keep feeding bub.

I remember loading some 55 grn FMJ's in a 22-250 for fox hunting back in my youth. The first fox I shot proved the folly of that idea, half skinned from the shot.

Ive seen one do the 50 yard death run as described--well under half minute for time it took. Never saw one continue eating. Did see one continue walking--didn't fall nor didn't run. This was with liver and heart both pulverized with a .243.

Guess you guys have not shot many deer through the lungs and never touched anything else.

It's very common with a silent bow and a very sharp broadhead and will also happen often with a quiet rifle. If you shoot the deer with a loud rifle, the mere noise will spook it rather than the little poke in the side.

But ..... you are the experts, I'm just the guy who has killed more Whitetails than the years I have trod the earth (70), so what could I possibly know from real experience rather than the latest "Getting a big buck in the rut" story for Field & Stream ?

I think everyone is in awe of your 70 years of wisdom. I know I appreciate the lessons.

45-70--Mine wasn't a " It don't happen," It was "that's one I've not seen yet."

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
45-70--Mine wasn't a " It don't happen," It was "that's one I've not seen yet."

Go back to reading your Field and Stream. There is only one expert on these thar forums.

Scott, I'm happy to hear you render the respect due to your elders as it is becoming a lost thing in America.

Carpetman1, Insofar as "not seeing it yet", that is an amazing admission on the Internet because everyone has seen and done everything w/o ever getting out from behind their keyboards. I doubt you will ever see it unless you become a skilled bowhunter or can legally take game with small caliber quiet or suppressed rifles. Even then it is more a matter of luck than skill to thread the needle between a deer's ribs on both sides.

Scott, Insofar as "experts" go, most people with education and experience are "expert" at something. While I would call myself a B+ expert on sailing and navigating a large (+-40) sailboat in the Great lakes and Caribbean, I would never claim to being a Marine sniper.
The net is wonderful for liars. They can claim anything and never be required to validate it.

Whenever asked to produce independent verifiable evidence, most of the experts go into insult attack mode or just vanish off the thread.

Back in the day, when I worked for H. Ross Perot (in Dallas), he often said that Texans were noted for their big hats, funny boots and tall tales. I doubt much has changed.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Guess you guys have not shot many deer through the lungs and never touched anything else.

It's very common with a silent bow and a very sharp broadhead and will also happen often with a quiet rifle. If you shoot the deer with a loud rifle, the mere noise will spook it rather than the little poke in the side.

But ..... you are the experts, I'm just the guy who has killed more Whitetails than the years I have trod the earth (70), so what could I possibly know from real experience rather than the latest "Getting a big buck in the rut" story for Field & Stream ?

What could you possibly know?
Why should we possibly care?

Your piddling experience does not compare to someone that grew up on a farm with 2 brothers that also hunt.

Hope your brothers learned to read as, obviously you did not.

Had you had someone read the entire thread to you, you might understand.... again, obviously, you have not.

What I know is based on real world experience (mine) as well as the writings of many hunters who were not stall muckers in no where, some where.

The abuse the OP has taken from a bunch of asswipes hiding behind a keyboard under their desk is an indication of the almost complete disrespect and lack of knowledge displayed day in and out in our "Brave new World".

Guessing you raised sheep .... eh ? Laffin

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Guess you guys have not shot many deer through the lungs and never touched anything else.

It's very common with a silent bow and a very sharp broadhead and will also happen often with a quiet rifle. If you shoot the deer with a loud rifle, the mere noise will spook it rather than the little poke in the side.

But ..... you are the experts, I'm just the guy who has killed more Whitetails than the years I have trod the earth (70), so what could I possibly know from real experience rather than the latest "Getting a big buck in the rut" story for Field & Stream ?

What age did you shoot your first buck?
How many deer have you shot?
How many deer did you shoot with a "quiet rifle" (please define a quiet rifle herr dufus) or a bow that just kept grazing and what does that have to do with this post.
Just be cause you are 70 does not mean you are still capable of rational thought.

Like I said some of us that are younger probably started hunting earlier than you and your 70 years is meaningless. I did read the entire thread. What your senile brain failed to understand was my post was a response to your thoroughly lame post.

No I never mucked a stall. That language is not even known on farms where I grew up. And cattle are not fed in a barn here. It seems that you know nothing about farming and ranching but you do know about deer that are shot but don't it and you know about "quiet rifles'. What a joke.
You just tried to cover for a stupid post.

SR4759--There might be some that have insulting remarks for you, but I bet your proctologist describes you as 100% complete and perfect.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carpetman1:
Ive seen one do the 50 yard death run as described--well under half minute for time it took. Never saw one continue eating. Did see one continue walking--didn't fall nor didn't run. This was with liver and heart both pulverized with a .243.[/QUOTE


I shot a Pacific Blacktail doe through the chest at a range of about 25 yards, in 1961. She didn't look alarmed, didn't change her very unhurried slow walking/feeding pace, and continued to feed after being shot until she just fell over right on the little side-hill deer-trail she was walking on.

At first I thought I had somehow missed her, but after having watched her for 30 seconds or so more, over she tumbled. When I walked up to her she was quite dead. The bullet had not hit a rib on the way in and did not exit.

I can't remember for sure whether the cartridge was the .22/30-30, the .219 Improved Zipper, or the .22-250, all of which I had at the time. I tend to believe it was likely the Improved Zipper as that is the one of those three I liked the best and used the most.

Anyway, I DO remember the bullet. It was the .223" diameter Sisk 55 Grain Express. I used that bullet a LOT, and still have about 1,000 of them. I originally bought it for my Swift, but liked it so much I used it in just about all my .223 or .224 diameter bores except the Hornet.

Alberta Canuck--Sisk bullets were made about 10 miles from where I grew up, but I never toured their facility. (made in Iowa Park Texas--pronounced I Way Park)

Carpetman - Thanks for the correct ponunciation of Iowa Park.

I have always said it wrong, pronouncing it just like the State of Iowa is pronounced here in the far west... I-ah-wah. My dad, incidentally, always pronounced the state name as I-O-Way.

Good thing I didn't grow up that close to R.B. Sisk...I'd probably have ended up even more "gun poor" than I have.

Take care and have a happy new year.

Ya gotta love old SR .... everyone but him is "lame", "senile", "a doofus" and so on. he is , of course, another Internet tough guy who can call names with the best of them, but like all trolls is gutless, yellow bellied coward hiding behind a keyboard in lala land. Bet if you met him in the local sheep farmers bar, he would be as sweet as his favorite Ewe.
Nice to see another real hunter speak up and tell of sharing the same experience.
If SR and his equally acute brothers actual had a library of true hunting stories, they would see what I described is not common but hardly unheard of. Come to think of it, a few years ago I killed and Elk with a 400 Whelen and old X 350 gr bullets at 250 yards. A bit of a stretch for the 400 but when you punch a .411 hole through both lungs of an Elk he dies. With the wind in our face, I doubt the shot alarmed him. He took a couple of steps, bedded and bled out quickly.
Again no broken ribs and no bullet recovered. (typical Barnes).
As for Archery having no meaning .... are you really that dumb ? The type of kill described is more common in Archery than with guns as any experienced archer would tell you.

BTW here's the Elk and the aformentioned 400 Whelen.

45-70, Love the mount was done with the stuff still hanging on it. By far a better trophy in my eyes than the "cleaned up" air brushed B.S.

gorgeous elk mount

45-70 Shooter---How far do you have to travel to hunt elk?