I'm thinking my next project will be a 6.5 x 57 using 7mm Mauser brass, AI it, push 140's of various makes through a 26" custom barrel to around 2900-3000 fps. Since this will be a long range shooter, I'll be looking for as much knat's ass accuracy as possible I'm thinking a short Rem 700 action would be the way to go. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I could get away with this as a repeater if I, 1)use a Wyatt's long mag box and 2) have a custom reamer built for the 140 length bullets.

Am I wrong? Will I need to go to a Rem 700 long action no matter what?

Well I have built a 6.5 x 57, not the AI version...

however, I looked long and hard at a lot of options... like at the 284 case, and compared it to the 260 Rem, the 6.5/06 and 6.5/06 AI.. and even the 6.5 Rem Mag...

What I found is that the 6.5/06 will equal a 264 Win Mag for a handloader any day...

I also found that a handloaded 260 isn't beaten often by a handloaded 6.5 x 284.. and if it is, its MV isn't that much faster, maybe 100 fps if that...

A 6.5 Rem Mag was the equal of a 6.5/06 all day long, nothing superior to it..

there isn't much difference in a handloaded 6.5 x 55 and a 6.5 x 57....The AI didn't add much to performance at all...

Using H 380 powder, a 260 case, a 6.5 x 55 case, and a necked up 257 Roberts case ( to 6.5 x 57) the latter two only held ONE grain More of H 380 than the 260...

When using 140 grain bullets seated to short action length, you don't gain a darn thing using a 6.5 x 57 or a 6.5 x 55.. as the bullet has to be seated so deep inside the case, your life is easier with the 260...remember when all is said and done, the 260 only held ONE grain less of H 380...

however.. when put into a long action, the bullet could be seated out to magazine length and then there was some definite advantages with the 55 or 57 mm cases...

when comparing a 6.5/06 with a 6.5 x 57 both in long action, the 06 case ends up having the same problem the 57 mm case had in a short action... with 140 grain bullets, you had to put the bullet down into the powder capacity...

so on a long action a 6.5 x 57 could do the exact same as a 6.5/06 in the same long action...the little extra powder you might get in the 06 case, didn't add to the velocity at all... and in a 6.5/06 AI.. the 6.5 x 57 actually beat the 06/AI version...with 120s, 129 and 140/142 grain bullets...

So when all was said and done, I built my 6.5 x 57, on a long action model 70 with a 28 inch heavy magnum contoured Pac Nor barrel with a one in 8 twist... it was throated to take 140 grain match bullets and corelokts to be seated at magazine length...

The barrel work and gunsmithing was done by the very same Kevin Wyatt you mention above who makes the long box mags you speak of...

after going over it with him, he agreed 100 % with my findings...and caliber choice...

Also something else to remember in 6.5 bore match bullets in the 140 to 142 range... as I was told by the techs at Sierra... even tho these bullets can be pushed faster, their best accuracy will be in the 2800 to 2900 fps range...

my testing verified that out pretty well....

passing on all of my testing and research.. I hope this helps.. I was lucky to have access to rifles in the various calibers mentioned above from friends who owned them...who let me run some tests.. both over the chronograph and also for accuracy...

I think you will find a long action will serve you better.. and if you still prefer a short action.. then I'd consider it to be a single shot with a benchrest follower installed...

The 6.5 x 57 is by far, my favorite cartridge...

I would build a 6.5-06 on a Remington long action. You don't lose anything and the brass is easy to get. The Remington action will work with a longer overall length than Winchester's model 70 unless you get a magnum length bottom metal. But that is just me, I can't argue with anything Seafire says on various 6.5's though I like the 6.5x55 best.

quote:

What I found is that the 6.5/06 will equal a 264 Win Mag for a handloader any day...

Seafire: not to hijack the thread, but I assume you mean that you can equal 264 factory loads with a 6.5/06? thanks

Seafire,

Before I posted my question, I ran a search and read much about your 6.5 x 57 but never this much. Thanks for enlightening us as to your discoveries of the "other" 6.5 contenders and why you chose the 6.5 x 57.

Why the Win 70 vs the Rem 700? I've owned both. Just curious.

How far can you stretch the magazine of a short Rem 700? In order to efficiently use a 140 6.5mm bullet with the 57mm case you'll need a magazine of around 3.2" or better.

Don't count on 3000 fps with this case. You might reach that with an '06 or .284 case.

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Seafire,

Before I posted my question, I ran a search and read much about your 6.5 x 57 but never this much. Thanks for enlightening us as to your discoveries of the "other" 6.5 contenders and why you chose the 6.5 x 57.

Why the Win 70 vs the Rem 700? I've owned both. Just curious.

I prefer the model 70 over the Model 700 action any day...

That being said, I also wanted a 6mm Rem heavy barrel... but I did put that one on a Remington Action... because of some trigger issues it had and I was going to make the 6mm Rem a single shot anyway....It is one of those older Rem Actions that evidently had a recall because they just sort of went off on their own even with the safety on... it has happened to me multiple time in the field...

Stonecreek..

About 3000 fps in the 57 mm case, not to argue since I usually agree 1000% with your posts, I have to go off track on this one...in a long action, with the bullet seated to magazine length... you can hit 3000 fps with this bullet using charges of 4831s, RL 19, RL 22, 7828 and H 1000... at least in my rifle it is do'able...

The AI, may or may not give you a little more...

But as I highlight.. the best accuracy with match bullets in the 6.5 bore seem to be in the 2800 to 2900 fps range.....even for the 120s and 107 match kings...I haven't ever used the Lapua match bullets, or the Berger...

Seafire,

Yes, the 57mm case should be able to reach 3000 fps with a 6.5-140, but only if loaded out to around 3.25 inches or so. I was thinking in terms of a cartridge that would fit in a "medium" magazine, which I don't think you could do with this case and bullet. If you're going to use an '06-length action, then you might as well use the '06 case.

I love my 6.5x57mm Steyr cause it does the job every time, BUT, if I really wanted to do 6.5mm right, I'd go back to a custom 6.5-06. I've built and owned three of them, until another shooter discovered my treasure and wanted it more than I did. (What do you say when they start peeling off fifty dollar bills?) A 6.5-06 is a handloader's dream, especially when the gunsmith does the work to allow you to load 160 grain bullets seated out to the max. Lord how I love the 6.5-06, but i doubt if I'll ever own another one because I am just too old to go thru the game again.

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Seafire,

Yes, the 57mm case should be able to reach 3000 fps with a 6.5-140, but only if loaded out to around 3.25 inches or so. I was thinking in terms of a cartridge that would fit in a "medium" magazine, which I don't think you could do with this case and bullet. If you're going to use an '06-length action, then you might as well use the '06 case.

Stoney,

I had the luxury of having access to a pair of Ruger 77 Mk 2 in long actions.. one was chambered in a 6.5/06 and the other in a 6.5/06 AI.... after going with the 6.5 x 57 ( or 6.5 Roberts) in a long action Winchester...
testing these rifles side by side... the Rugers had 24 inch barrels and mine has a 28 inch barrel... but the winchester chronographed faster velocities than either of the 06 versions.. and did so with less powder!

I mean this is only comparing 3 rifles against each other... so one can only assume the results as such... 3 rifles...

But it did show a pattern.. I tested them against the completed 6.5 x 57... because if the 6.5/06s would have shown more velocity, I could have bored the 57 mm throat out to accept the 06 length cartridge...

but the chronograph showed no need to do so...
so I stayed with the 6.5 x 57...

I have a .260AAR, which is also called a 6.5/257 AI. It is on a Rem 700 SA and that length hasn't given me any problems with accuracy or velocity with bullets ranging from 85 to 140. I have a 6.5 Swede with a magazine length of 3.10, and the velocity difference between the Swede, the .260AAR and my 6.5-284 was all but nill, not over 50 fps with any bullet weight in any rifle. I suspect I did have a "slow" barrel in 6.5-284 though.

I use short action Remington's for most of my 55 and 57 mm cases, as well as .284 based cartridges. Try it--you'll like it.

Seafire,
Ever use H-414 in your 6.5X57 ?
I think I will give it a try.
It is great with lighter bullets in both my Roberts and my 7X57.
I would bet with bullets up through say 130 grain it would be great.
With hundred grain bullets in my Roberts I can bust 3100 and get MOA , and with 140s in my 7mm mauser I get 2900 and better than MOA.
...tj3006

Yeah Tom,
I have used it in my rifle and it is a good choice.. for both velocity and accuracy...

I have learned to throttle mine back tho.. just for simplicity sakes.. .40 grains of RL 15, or W 748, or IMR 4064, or IMR 4895, or Varget.. and 120 grain bullets...

All give stellar accuracy and an MV of 2800 to 2850 fps

I use IMR 4350 at times with the 140s, along with the above powders also for that bullet weight... and the same 40 grain Charge...

SR 4759/25 grs and 140 grain bullets are also used for a light recoil load...

My 6.5 x 57 is kinda heavy, having a 28 inch heavy magnum barrel on it... ( one in 8 twist, Pac Nor made)....

Afew years ago I was looking at about the same thing as you 6.5x55AI,6.5x57AI,260AI,6.5x06 and 6.5x284,6.5x300WSM etc and I wanted to shoot the 140/142gr Sierra bullet.

I settled on the 6.5x284 on a long action. Most gunsmith have a reamer set up for the 140/142gr SMK and as seafire 2 said around 2950fps is best but you can go above that and the price is shorter barrel life. I sure won't worry about building one on a Rem long action as you can buy an after market trigger.

I've got afew wildcats and I like them all but I found with the 6.5x284 I didn't have to blow out, neck up or down just load and shoot and with Norma,Laupa and Nosler making 6.5x284 brass.

Well good luck.

My 6.5X57 is built on a short mag long action mauser. It has a 26 inch barrel , I think its a douglas. I bought it from my smith who got it from a long time customer who passed away.
He does not know if he built it but he does know his shop stocked it.
Its very prety.
I have had a hard time detemining the twist rate.
Using a patch over a cleaning brush I kept getting a differnt measument.
I have not shot it much but It seemed to like a 125 grain partition real well , and that would certainly be an efective combo at the speeds I should be able to get.
going to see the smith today and Pick up my .257 roberts...tj3006

I'm very curious why so many folks go to 140's in a 6.5 bore?
I have 6.5's in
6.5x39 imp
6.5 TCU
6.5 Jap
6.5x55
260 Rem
260 rem imp
260 AAR
6.5/284
6.5 Gibbs
264 win mag
I like 120's best in all of them, and have never seen what a 140 would gain me short of 1000 yd target shooting. My 264 is one of the slowest ever built I think at 3250 fps with a 120 nosler solidbase, but has shot so many deer and caribou if it was going to show a problem it would have by now. My 27" Lilja barreled Gibbs does 3400 fps with the same bullet and a dose of the old Norma 205. I checked the load with a Ohler strain gauge and is safe, but not one I'll share. Anyway, even at those speeds the nosler SB will exit on any reasonable shot taken. What gains are there in useing a heavyer, slower bullet?

6.5x57R 26" barrel

140gr speer
2850fps from a stiff charge of RL22
COL around 3.2"

120gr ballistic tip
3,000fps from a stiff charge of VVN560

100gr hornady sp
3,300fps from a very compressed charge (54gr!) of VVN160.

I really wouldn't bother with AI. This was in a break open with RWS (read tough as hell but less capacity) brass. Great round.