I have new bottom metal for a Mini Mauser Mk X so it's only logical that I get a rifle to fit it. I have a 223 and a 22-250 so I thought I'd try something new like a 6 x 45. The 17 Rem just doesn't do it for me.

I had a Contender in 6.5 x 45 and thought that shot a bit slow. Who has a 6 x 45 and have you hunted with it?

I had shot a friend of mines AR15 in 6x45mm a long time ago. It was neat but he sold it off for something else. Nice numbers but I think most of the current crop of good 6mm bullets are made with higher velocities in mind.

I am building up a 6.8RemSPC right now on a Ruger All-weather 77MKII action with a sporter barrel. It is only a slight modification to open up the bolt face and a big jump in terminal performance with the 90-115gr .277 cal bullets. Factory ammo is available, have you considered it?

That action would do 6x45 or tcu, the first being easier and about identical performance....70gr 3100-3200, 80-85's at 2900-3000 mv.

If the bolt is opened, a 6PPC or 6.5 Grendel are options. http://www.chuckhawks.com/6-5mm_grendel.htm

Do a google, I like the Grendel myself as to me it offers more than the 6.8.

I enjoyed my 6TCU, if you punch more paper and varmints go with it, but if you want to take deer and say coyotes, the 6.5 might give you a little more margin of energy.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I have new bottom metal for a Mini Mauser Mk X so it's only logical that I get a rifle to fit it. I have a 223 and a 22-250 so I thought I'd try something new like a 6 x 45. The 17 Rem just doesn't do it for me.

I shoot a Savage 24V that was rebored to make 6x45mm, have not killed anything with it yet. Nice mild gun for antelope and sage grouse, will take it along this fall if I get out of town. I'd like a bolt gun in this caliber also, haven't done anything about it yet.

It has fair following in SA, partly due to being punted by Gregor Woods of Magnum. In fact correct headstamp cased and factory ammo are available (or were at some stage at least)

It is used on small antelope (Springbok, impala etc) all the articles seeme to speak favourably of its performance on game. 75-85gr in open country, 100gr in bush on game like impala.

Many years back I was a big fan of the Sako .222 Mag. The natural progression was to the 6 x 47 which as you know is a virtual twin of the 6 x 45 for all practical purposes. The best I could get out of the 20" Douglas premium 1 in 10 twist was 2,700 ft/sec with the Nosler 85 grain partition. I shot a large doe at about 90 yards broadside shot lungs only, no ribs... she went about 35 yards. Upon field dressing her I was astounded to see so little damage! The bullet had bored a hole of less than one inch diameter for it's entire penetration. The only deer I have ever dressed which was clean inside due to so little damage! Accuracy which is something I strive for was difficult to obtain to my standards. I also shot woodchucks with the 75 grain Zippedo bullet @ 3,000 ft/sec's and had decent but not stellar results. Bottom line for my money these days I would rather shoot a .223 on the .378" case head. I guess a similar analogy could be made for using the 7.62 x 39 when thinking .30 caliber. This is something I work with these days and enjoy even more.


Good shooting!

Thanks for all the responses. Sounds like I need to jump up a little in case capacity for what I want. I hadn't thought of the 6.8 or the Grendel...think I'll do some homework.

If you want a light round that performs, I have a custom Model 7 Remington with Pac-Nor barreled in 7mm Benchrest. Easy to get brass, and load for. Light kick, blast, slow to heat up. Shoots 120's at 2878.

PM me if interested.

tigertate, you're welcome to shoot my AR with the 6x45 upper if you would like to try one. Unfortunately I'm limited to the 80 gr. SSP bullet due to magaine length, and can't get much more than 2700 out of it. For me it's usefull for close range culling, small does and spikes at under 100 yards is all it's been used for.

I would definately look at the 6.5 Grendel, that seems to me to be a darn good round.

tiggertate,
i got a mni in 6 tcu. used it for spot and stalk fox hunting when their pelts were worth something. lent it out to a few friends over the years and they have killed deer without a problem with it.
i also recently finished a left handed one for my 11 year old in 6.8 spc. makes into a neat gun without much work. opened the bolt face and this one just needed some polishing on the follower and feed ramp to work.
i have two of those fancy bottom metal pieces on the way just haven't quite figured out what to use them for.
max

Thanks, Jeff. I may take you up on that. Max, you know you got a problem when you buy bottom metal just to fit a gun around it, eh?

I think the 6.5 Grendel shoots around 2600 with 120's, why the BR cartridges have not been used more I cannot understand.

A BR has more performance than the Grendel and the 6.8. I know those 2 rounds were designed for military autos, smaller case, more capacity in magazine.

If I can find a Mini in 7.62 x 39 I'd seriously consider the 6 BR. I am wanting to avoid a bunch of action and feeding mods on this one.

I am not sure, but the case head on the 7.62 is PPC size as they are based on that case.....the BR is the .473 or so that 243/308 etc. use, and I am thinking there may not be enough 'beef' in bolt width to open it up for the BR case.

My Model 7 feeds five rounds from the magazine without a hitch.

My 6x45mm is on a Rem 600 action 22" Pac-nor #1 barrel 1 in 10 twist. I'm getting great accuracy from 55gr NBT's and 70gr TNT's. This is mostly a coyote gun. It is troated long as I have plenty of room in the magazine so I can push it a little more. My quess is 3400 for the 55's and 3100 for the 70's next time out I'll run them over the chrony.

375win

My bullberry TC was 21" but 12" twist, handled 85 BTHP, but 70's shot better. If I had another, I might build a fast twist to shoot them all-8 twist like my 6BR.

I believe my 7BR shoots 100's around 3,000, that ought to level coyotes fairly well. Did I say, light recoil?

I've had a 6mm-223 since 1986 in a contender pistol with 14" barrel. I push 85gr. Sierras at 2815 fps, which is plenty of punch to take down whitetails and anything smaller. I taken several out to 225 yards and as close as 40 yards with this cartridge.

60gr Sierra HP's can be pushed out of my 14" barrel at over 3000fps, which has made it a very good jack rabbit and coyote round.

Accuracy with both of these bullets is very good, being 3/4" and under at 100 yards. And recoil is not an issue.

Good shooting and good luck picking your right cartridge,

HL

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
I am not sure, but the case head on the 7.62 is PPC size as they are based on that case.....the BR is the .473 or so that 243/308 etc. use, and I am thinking there may not be enough 'beef' in bolt width to open it up for the BR case.

My Model 7 feeds five rounds from the magazine without a hitch.

You're right. I had a brain fart but I was meaning the 6 PPC. I have a friend with a 22 BR and while a fine round, it looks like a PIA to get it feeding right. His nose-dives in all but the most carefull cycling. His is a 700 SA so maybe that 1/2 inch shorter Mod 7 makes a difference.

The Mini Mk X comes in 22-250 so 6 BR can be done.

Tiggertate: I have a Remington 40X in caliber 6x47!
I HIGHLY recommend this amazing and accurate little cartridge for your consideration.
I have Hunted all manner of Varmints with it but never Big Game.
This all factroy stock Remington 40X of mine is simply outstandingly accurate and brass life is apparently "forever"!
Check the ballistics of the 6x47 in bullet weights you may be interested in.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The magazine may or may not work with PPC size since they are a tad smaller in diameter, don't know, but I do know my 7BR works slick.

The mini-mauser action bolt is small and may not be large enough in diameter to accomadate the BR ctg.

I like the BR as the brass is more affordable. Grendel is nice, but I saw some high dollar brass recently, ouch.

If you only need a small amount of brass it would not be as much an issue.

It all depends on application. The 6x45/6TCU can be versatile rounds and solid deer killers with good bullets and shot placement, and within its limits. The larger cases give more horsepower if/when needed.

Noticable difference in blast going from 223 case size to BR size. Not excessive, but noticably more.

I enjoyed my TCU, but never had the chance to deer, wanted to, and the 85 BTHP was loaded up in case. Brass for 222 rem mag may not be easy to find-don't know, not sure if mfg. any longer, but 223 is and will be for a long time. So will PPC and BR brass.

Oh, the 22BR has a short bullet, unlike my OAL being longer with larger bullet, and I think it helps my 7BR feed well, but 22 the opposite.

I have one, and have used it on springbok, blesbok, mtn reedbuck and impala. It works beutifully on these animals, using 87gr Hornady spritzer bullets. Most shots were between 100 and 200 yards. A few young boys coming on a hunt with their fathers, have also used it to bag their first animals with. I load the 87gr bullet to 2600ft/ sec, and terminal performance is acceptable on the smaller animals, and even on blesbok if the heavy shoulder bone is avoided.

Not sure I would call this a deer rifle although I might do some head-shooting on cull does one day just to try it. Mostly a truck gun in the same sense I carry my 223 now. Coyotes, javelina, occasional fox, crows. The ususal cast of characters one encounters when filling feeders, cleaning blinds, all that stuff.

I have a custom built Rem 700 in 6*47 and I just love it. The rifle is a medium varmint rig. Mostly I shoot 70 gr Sierra BKs at about 3150 fps. I can self spot and it reliably removes rabbit sized targets at 500 yards.

I have an old Kimber of Oregon M84 in 6X47. Bought it as a starter deer rifle for the boys. With 85gr Speer BT's it's a great little deer rifle (carefully controlled conditions) and with 60gr Sierra HP's it's a wonderful walking varminter! for brass availability, I wish it were a 6X45.

I think you'd really like the 6X45, if you tried it!

Fellas: Am I missing something?
222 Remington Magnum brass is available everywhere!
I have plenty in my brass locker and often wonder why I have fallen to these "brass shortage" rumors regarding th 222 Magnum in years (decades!) past!
I just double checked and Midway has it IN STOCK and I was just out on the west coast a month ago and my favorite Gunshop in NW Washington had huge amounts of it in bins for bulk purchase!
I do not think availability of 222 Magnum brass would deter me from considering a firearm in that caliber or one in 6x47 or 204 Ruger for that matter.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yes, you CAN find 222Mag brass, but it's certainly not as available, and cheap as 223 brass. To use your Midway example, you can by 223 brass by Lapua, Norma, Nosler, Rem, and Win...in lots of 100 up to several thousand.

222Mag brass is available on in Rem flavor and in lots of 1000 for $220. While 1000 cases of Rem 223 brass is $132.

Not saying this would deter me from getting a 6x47. But given the similarity of the rounds, I'd prefer the 6x45, if there were an option.

Not trying to argue, just trying to respond to your question.

Did not mean to start an argument over 222 R mag availability.

I do seem to recall a very slight difference in case capacity between the TCU and x47. I DO like the longer neck on the 47, but the 45, TCU, and 47 I believe should all be within a couple of grains of each other. A simple pass in x45 die, ready to go, no forming. I guess the same on the x47, no real difference if you have brass on hand, than the 223 versions.

I know a 70gr will do 3100-3200 in a 6x45 and TCU, perhaps the x47 has a small edge in accuracy, but having owned a TCU, I would build a 6x45 over the other 2 anyday for MY needs, as there is no brass forming, and brass is EVERYWHERE.

I do prefer my BR's in performance, but the smaller cases have a tad less recoil and blast if that matters.

They all offer more punch than 222/223's etc esp. on larger game and longer range. Heavier bullet and impact will let you see hits/misses easier.

I used to have a Model 70 match rifle in 6x45 that was very accurate with the Sierra 85 grain hollow-point bullets. It was very easy to reload for and I had good luck with H335, H322, and IMR 4895 powders. I never shot it on game so can not comment.

All that said, for a similar rifle to use on game up to deer and antelope, I would go with the 6.5 Grendl.

Dave

Have to agree with Varmintguy about the brass.

I purchased a custom 222 Mag AI and acquired all the brass I needed from Midway. It is more expensive than 223 brass but with the AI, case capacity is about 10% greater than the standard 222mag and somewhere around 12-15% greater than the 223.

They all make good 6mm wildcats, it's just a matter of how much trouble you want or enjoy.

I do prefer the 6x45 (6mm-223 since there is no fireforming required.

Good Shooting,

HL

Agreed with HL, having owned a TCU, I mocked up a 223 into a 243 die to size neck, and put in a 6mm bullet.

It seemed to be much less trouble, for 98% of the same performance.

6x45 and 6x47 should be same in easiness in loading

An issue to consider with the 6*47 is OAL. My rifle is a Rem 700, and it needed a fair bit of work to make these rounds feed from the magazine. Unfortunately, the spacer in the Rem 223 mag just doesn't allow for enough length, so we had to make up a new spacer and follower.

Good point about the x47. In a TC, 40x, or Sako single shot action, or custom, non-issue,

interesting as years ago Sam Fadala had one made up by Frank Wells if I remember, in a 6mm-222 rem. That shot 80's right at the same speed that the 6x45/tcu shoot. Used BL-C

It was in a Sako and used to hunt antelope/mule deer within 200 yds, sometimes just over, did well, when mag length limits your oal, then seating bullets deep robs powder capacity potential of larger cases/or should I say longer.

Hence the PPC/BR cases, fatter, more powder, still short.

Olarmy: I don't mind a good argument - what I DO mind is folks distorting things.
I simply won't stand for that anymore!
Your argument then is WHAT?
Are you saying the 222 Remington Magnum brass is hard to find or is it NOT?
I am unclear on where you stand there - point number 1!
If you are saying its hard to come by - I say and have given examples that prove you wrong on that point!
Point # 2 - You mention 223 ammo being available in Norma, Lapua and Nosler brands in the same posting you appear to decry the price difference of 223 Remington brass per thousand vs. Remington 222 Remington Magnum brass per thousand!
Those numbers you correctly quoted at $132.00 per thousand for the Remington 223 brass and $220.00 per thousand for the Remington 222 Magnum brass!
Well you only "tell" (distort!) half the facts there in your posting!
Lets just check the price per thousand of the Lapua, Nosler and Norma brass:

Lapua 223 brass = $371.99!!!

Nosler 223 brass = $499.80!!!

Norma 223 brass = $729.90!!!

Talk about price difference!!!

Each of those comparitive examples makes the Remington 222 Remington Magnum brass look like a REAL bargain (at $220.00 per 1,000!).

Just 2 days ago I went to a TINY sport/pawn shop here in SW Montana and they had Remington 222 Remington Magnum brass in baggies of 20 for sale!

Like I say in the past decades I have fallen sway to the unfounded rumors that Remington will SOON quit making 222 Remington Magnum brass! In the past I have acted upon these rumors with trepidation and gone out and bought more 222 Magnum brass! Well I have LOTS of it AND I never seem to need to dip into my stores of it because it seems to last forever (in my Rifles that use it)!
You are right Olarmy, in this aspect of your posting, there is an option - a clear one!
222 Remington Magnum is readily available AND a person can buy it for a somewhat modest investment and use it for many, many reloadings then if need be go buy some more!
My latest Sierra Manual shows BOTH the 6x45 AND the 6x47 cartridges - and their respective recommended loadings.
This manual shows the 6x47 max loads with their 75 gr. bullet being exactly 200 F.P.S. faster than the maximum loading for the 6x45!
200 F.P.S. is 6.5% better performance with the same bullet according to my crude calculations - a person interested in accuracy AND a better performing (velocity wise) cartridge would do well to choose the 6x47!
Would they not?
And as far as lethality on medium size Big Game that 200 EXTRA feet per second is then a VERY important consideration.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Geez VG, chill out a little. I have no interest in an argument.

I have a 6x47 and love it. Simply meant that if I were buying today and had the option, all other things being equal, I'd probably chose the 6x45.

Reason being: 223 brass is easier to find, more options are available (brand,quality, etc.), and for equal quality (Rem vs Rem) 223 brass is cheaper.

If you think that is distorting things, feel free to feel that way.

I hope you are right(and you probably are) about 222Mag brass being available for a long time. Makes no difference to me, though, I have a lifetime supply.

Olarmy: No chilling necessary.
I take it now you "feel" that 222 Remington Magnum brass IS readily available?
Speaking of brass and its QUALITY - AHEM! - using REMINGTON 222 Magnum brass, on March 20th 1,995 I fired a 5 shot group at 100 yards with my factory stock Remington 40X in 6x47 that measured .151"!
I was using Euber 68 grain match bullets that cool and calm Puget Sound day!
I would like to know if you can quantify how much SMALLER that group would be IF Norma, LaPua or Nosler made 222 Remington Magnum brass!
In other words, I feel the Remington 222 Magnum brass is just fine!
At least!
Lest you be still under the impression that one can not achieve accuracy with Remington brass let me again refer to my loading logbook!
It seems that over the years I have had occassion to do load testing and sight in verification with this same Rifle and brass!
It appears I have fired and recorded the results of 26 five shot groups using this Rifle and Remington brass!
4 of those groups measured in the 2's!
7 of those groups measured in the 3's!
6 of those groups measured in the 4's!
4 of those groups measured in the 5's!
So during my load testing and once load testing was done and I made more groups on occassion to make sure of the Rifles sightin, the handloads (using the Remington brass and Varmint friendly bullets) shot pretty well - wouldn't you agree?
I find the Remington brass to be no hinderance what so ever!
I am anxiously awaiting your quantification of how much better a 222 Magnum would shoot with "better" brass!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Nice to see so much valuable wisdom, knowledge, experience on AR.

I think everyone here enjoys the sport for much the same reasons, regardless of what they choose or like to shoot. We all have more in common than not and I hate to see anyone argue here, but a healthy debate can be ok.

We all have differences of experience, so I take that into account and look at both sides of debates as best I can with an open mind.

Just like a scientific experiment can vary, so does experiences among several people who do virtually the same thing.

I had a friend who had a 7/08 AI built, shot less mv than a standard, heard the same from a gunsmith re: a 338/06 AI that he rechambered back to standard. Many variables, perhaps few absolutes, but there are trends.