Got a new Howa 1500 in .243 Win. with the Hogue stock and a nighteater 3-10x-42 scope. Got the trigger done at my gunsmith and set at a crisp 2 lbs. I've shot seven different cartridges out of it and cannot get it to shoot less than 1.5" groups at 100 yards. Handloads and after market ranging from 58 gr. to 95 grains. What do I need to do to get this thing to shoot under an inch?

Don"t panic yet, you have a good rifle chambered in the best cartridge ever made!
You say the gun is new, how many rounds have you put through it? (there is a "running in process" as a barrel settles in)
Are you cleaning it with a bore solvent? Point of impact changes with most rfiles for a few shots after cleaning until the barrel is "conditioned" again.
What is the twist rate? It might like bullets at the heavier end (95-100 grain) depending on the twist rate.
If it"s shooting a measured 1 1/2" at 100yds, that"s not bad enough to lose sleep over yet.
Try it at 200 and see if your group is twice the size. I find that if I use a heavy reticle it obscures too much of the bullseye to shoot the tiny groups we read about in the magazines(often BS I suspect!) You might find that your group does"nt open up much more at longer ranges, and unless you"re shooting at something smaller than 1 1/2" it won"t be a problem!
Are you shooting prone, off a good rest in calm weather?
My favourite loads are:
100 grain Speer Grand Slam over 35 grains Varget and CCI large rifle primer,
100 Grain Grand Slam over 44 grains Reloader 19 and CCI large rifle primer,
100 grain Hornady Interloc over 35 grains Varget(or 37 Grains BLC2) and CCI larger rifle primer.
My rifle loves the interlocs for some reason(sub 1" at 100 mtrs), but I prefer the Grand Slam for our big red deer(yes, Red deer easily past 300 mtrs with the mighty 243!)
Keep trying, it takes a while to get comfortable with any new rifle,
good shooting

I've got about 100 rounds trough it now. I am using this rifle rest: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link....yncharset=ISO-8859-1

Clean with Wipe out.

STD,

I'm apologizing up front for the tone of this response. Just take it for what it's worth.



You may just have one of those rifles that simply won't do any better than that. 1.5 MOA will certainly suffice for a hunting rifle - a Varmint/Target rig is another chapter.

Do you have or have you shot rifles that will deliver sub-MOA results?

Try the easy stuff first.

Are you using a good, solid bench, with sandbags, benchrest, etc. Correct bench technique to achieve "Small" groups? Position, breathing, trigger control, correct eye relief for scope, have you focussed recticle/scope, etc.? Are groups round clusters? Although larger than you desire do the groups depict stringing vertically or horizontally - indicating bad "technique" or action/stock/barrel issue? Are you flinching and/or do you have the ability to shoot "Itty-Bitty" groups?

Other potential iffy thingies include:

Clean barrel, O.K., you said rifle was new.....does barrel appear to have streaks of copper fouling in it?

Stock screws, tight(er) loose(er), check beddiing (inside the action area & barrel channel & trigger inlet) look for lumps, bumps and areas gouged or marred. Are stock screws "Bottomed Out" meaning the action is not secure in the stock due to "too long" action screws. Are action screws too tight, either front or rear; binding action? Does action/barrel wobble/move when screws are tightened or loosened?

Scope & Scope Mounts - tight and are a system; not stuff thrown together that doesn't match and are on correctly? (seen that one before, too!). Could be the scope is, well, broken; can you try another? Are scope rings too tight? Or too far back up against the variable power ring? Does it adjust easily?

Check barrel crown - does it appear smooth, edges sharp, or is there a dent or scar?

There's a bunch more but that ought to get you started to see if you really have a "Tack Driver".

Wow...Gerry...there is some good advice in there. Thanks for the tips...I'll check out the screws and maybe slide a matchbook under the stock and see if a wedge helps any bedding issues. Right now the gun is with my father. He shot on the United States Army rifle team and I asked him to see how it does for him just to check and make sure it is not me. I do have a sub moa Savage in a 30.06. I want this gun tighter so I can feel at ease using it for coyote and groundhog, etc. I'll probably shoot some deer with it too but I don't worry much about accuracy for targets the size of deer.

50 Yards




100 Yards

OK.

First, Your Zeiss is way too far back and parallax might be enough to account for half of your problem. Slide that bugger an inch and a half or two inches forward.

Second, you have pronounced vertical stringing. It might be the gun, it might be the scope. I will bet scope being moved ahead fixes that.

Assuming that moving the scope fixes the vertical stringing you are left with groups just under an inch from the looks of it. This is where you begin the real work of making a load. Work up the powder and charge weight. Try Varget and 4350. when you get everything you can out of working up charge weights with a powder the gun likes start working the seating depth. Vary from just off the lands to maybe as much as .070 off.

If you don't come down to less than an inch consistently come back and tell us what you've done. and what it bought you.

The scope was actually the Howa package scope and mounts already set up on the rifle. It is called a nighteater scope. I didn't order it but they sent it with the scope and I have the option to return it and get the money for the scope portion back. Actually, the scope isn't bad at all for the money but I'm not a fan of the tactical rail they use as it puts up the scope higher than it needs to be.

Any other input out there? I appreciate everyone's ideas and perspectives. I really like this caliber and I'd like to get this down to a half inch at 100 yards.

How many rounds are in your groups ?
If you are shooting game, as oposed to varmints, I would shoot 3 shot groups.
Lots of people dissagree, But a sporter weight barrel will heat up quite a-bit in 5 shots.
Most all my modern rifles, including my 45/70 marlin will shoot at or very near MOA for 3 shots , and That should be more tahn enogh for deer hunting...tj3006

Congrats on a nice rifle. My brother is a Howa/Vanguard nut and will outshoot me most days with his factory Howa's.

I highly suspect that a hot barrel is your first problem. Stainless Sporter barrels need time to cool between shots. Also, leave the barrel fouled unless you are changing ammunition. If you change ammo then run a bore snake through it and fire 1 fouling shot.

Hope you get it worked out.

Robert

If you are not jerking the trigger, doing the 06 flinch on the 243...

secondly I'd take a look at my handloads... slow them down just a little and see if that tightens them up...

had a Howa 1500 in 223 and it shot groups like that... after 1000 rounds thru the barrel then they tightened up dramatically

I'd work with it at 50 yds first to see if I can improve its groupings..

someone already said make sure the screws are all tight..pull it out of the stock and then put it back in.. something could be binding up somewhat..

STD,

Everyone's on your side and making solid suggestions to help.

Wow! Howa's have come a long way, Baby! We don't see many of them (none at all for that matter) in The Fatherland - a VERY nice looking rig IMO! Thanks for the useful Photos; as usual pics are better than a 1,000 words.....

All's not lost, you're telling on yourself; other shooters in the family and appears other potential pitfalls are bering taken into consideration, so the initial steps are already accomplished and the solid photos indicate a systematic approach.

BINGO! I agree with miles58 100%

quote:

First, Your Zeiss is way too far back and parallax might be enough to account for half of your problem. Slide that bugger an inch and a half or two inches forward.

Gotta love those pics! Unless you're an anatomical wonder and have virtually no neck at all (I've made the aquaintance of other Anatomical Wonders that aparently have no head at all!) or that scope has about 3/4" of eye relief - it is way too far back. I also consider this accuracy issue to be that you're self-inflicting parallax due to:

#1 less than a full field of view in the scope,

#2 inconsistant head postion behind the scope because what you're looking through/at isn't what you should be seeing.

#3 I cannot determine due to the rear ocular lens cover whether you have a fast focus eyepiece or you'll have to loosen the ocular lens and adjsut the focus either. Remember; the recticle should be crystal clear & sharp and the object you're attmepting to see through the scope; say a target at 100 yards - both in focus.

#4 you've mentioned the Picatinny Rail is too high. Indicates another potential pitfall; Head Position & Cheek Weld? O.K. the market bears what is vogue and everyone's a Special Forces wannabe (I can say that - I was in SF). Normally they are solid mounting systems but if you'll look at the photos (or the rifle) you can easily see where the scope is in relation to the action, too far back IMO. You'll get just as much perfomance out of Leupold Silver Bases & Matte Rings; (two-piece Base & Ring Set) that (if you purchase the correct height rings) wil lower the scope & you'll have better access to the action/chamber area too (but that's carrying my personal preferences a little too far - sorry).

The rings on the scope appear evenly spaced so I wouldn't dick with them at the moment; simply take the scope & rings off the Picatinny Rail and move the entire scope 3 or 4 (the furthest) notches forward. It could also be that you have to loosen the rings when you chage the scope's position to ensure all's Hoyle, too. If required you can evenly space the scope/rings/rail at the same time.

The other indication from the photos is that I hope you're not attempting to use the Bipod to shoot good groups from a solid wooden or concrete bench. It will "bounce" the forearm/rifle off such a hard surface causing the vertical group stringing depicted in your photos. Save the Bipod for the field shooting positions, read: soft(er) Mother Earth and use sandbags or a Bechrest up front a sandbag for the buttstock.

I also agree with Thomas Jones - shoot three shot groups initially - you don't have a barrel that will absorb alot of heat. Evenly space the shots to avoid over heating the barrel.

Those targets depict a rifle that begs to shoot - if the vertical stringing is eliminated those groups will start shrinking to where you want them to be. Net, from my way of analyzing this "accuracy" issue:

#1 Adjust the Scope to the Mounts

#2 fine-tune the scope,

#3 don't use the Bipod on the Bench,

#4 affix a pad, use a cloth on the stock to raise your eye to the correct level (or replace the mounts).

Ought to equal magic - you should be shooting Itty-Bitty groups next trip to the range!

As an aside I noticed on your target the IMR-4064 load. I ginned up a load with 39.0 grs. of IMR-4064 & a Speer 85 grain SPBT that would sink 3 shots into one ragged hole out my Remington 788 but every rifle is a Law unto Itself. Don't forget those Sierra 60 gr. HP's either if you want a screamer Varmint load.

Have fun and let us know how you come out.....

Frequently vertical grouping can be eliminated by juggling powder weights and/or seating depth.if you could gain access to a chronograph it would be advantageous to check the velocity of your loads.try backing off 2 1/2grs. from listed max. and load 5 shells, increasing 1/2 gr. with each one. if two of these group together then load 5 with a charge somewhere in the middle of the two that grouped together only vary seating depth by .010. then see if two or more of these group together. then shoot 5-shot groups with the best of these. there are other ways to accurize a factory rifle but it would require an entire book to explain them.Craig Boddington wrote one titled "Make It Accurate" which might still be available from his web-site.

Looks like you have a bit of a vertical stringing problem. See this website: http://www.6mmbr.com/verticaltips.html

Decent scope, would be one of those things that might help.

get of the bipod, pre loading the bipod can cause upward pressure on barrel.

other than that, sound advice has been given above.

Best regards Chris

Sand bags are hard to beat, I use a Roe sack with my cold weather gear inside as a "sand bag" so I"m always resting on the same surface.(I"m not a fan of bipods)
good shooting

I'd suggest shooting from sandbags both front and rear. Them plastic rests is nothin' but junk. Work on your trigger technique. I find most of my grouping problems start right there...

Mmmmm ...... I am taking this all in!
If I may I add a question, what happens if there is stress in any of the components? - Say the scope mount bases are not in line (two piece type). This will put a stress on the scope tube. The other stress is a twisting one caused by the scope rings being tightened down on opposite directions. Even a one-piece mounting rail could be stressed when bolting down, with or without twisting it a little. That twist should not stress the scope itself but might.
The other stress that may cause vertical stringing would be from an aluminium one-piece rail that has a different expansion rate to the receiver it is mounted on. And then the scope itself has a different expansion rate.
Does any of that have any effect?