I just got back from elk hunting here in Co. and I have mixed feelings about my 264 win mag. I had loaded 140 gr. partisions using 73 gr. of H870. I chronoed these loads at 3100 fps. I shot a nice young bull at 40 yds. and my shot was through the lungs. The bull disapeared in the oak brush with no blood trail and it took about 30 min. to find him.
The partision punched right through with not much of an exit wound, causing a dificult tracking job. I'm not sure I want to use that combination again.

I've never seen an animal die of trauma to its offside ribcage, so the exit wound is irrelavent. The operative question is what kind of trauma did the vital organs exhibit?

The Nosler Partition has a rapid-opening front section and a rear section that ultimately acts a bit like an FMJ. The exit wound you describe is typical and expected.

Elk are big, tough animals and are slow (but sure) to succumb to lung shots from any caliber or type of bullet. If it appears that your animal expired within about one minute of being shot, then you can't ask much more from a bullet.

By the way "blood trails" are much more a result of where the animal is hit rather than what it is hit with.

This shot was higher than I like but right behind the shoulder. This is the first elk I've killed and they certainly are lots tougher than I expected. He made it about 150 yds. through some of the nastiest oak brush before he finally gave it up. I was just expecting more blood to follow when trying to find him. The 264 did the job.

With the high shot thru the lungs, I would guess that the majority of the blood stayed inside the elk. Those high lung shots usually don't produce much of a blood spore until they "fill up" the chest cavity, but by then they are typically down.

Once you open them up, you find all your blood.

quote:

Originally posted by mikem0553:
This is the first elk I've killed and they certainly are lots tougher than I expected.

Welcome to elk hunting 101! Good job I wouldnt worry about how your bullet performed, just try to put it in the lower 1/3 next time. Just be careful where you poke them with your knife, just ask graybird!

Many years ago I made the same shot - broadside through the lungs on a nice young Colorado bull elk. This was a quick, offhand shot, picking an opening in the lodgepole pine, at about 40yds. The hit staggered him, and I thought he was going down in his tracks, but he made it about 30 feet, mostly because it was downhill. It's nice when a blood trail wasn't needed, because I could see the fallen elk from where I stood when I shot him. However, there was plenty of blood to follow, if need be.

The 180gr core-lokt was found under the hide on the opposite side, nicely mushroomed. I attribute the difference in results to the 30-06 vs 264M. For such task I trust a 30-06 a lot more than a light fast smaller caliber cartridge, and although my one experience isn't proof of anything really, it's good enough for me.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
Just be careful where you poke them with your knife, just ask graybird!

I know you boys are wishing you had a video of my little episode last year!!!

There's no doubt about it that I could or should have made a better shot on the bull but this was a hurried shot in the brush and I was pretty excited. I'm just thankful I found him and can say I finally got an elk. The 264 may not be the best brush gun but it worked, I like it and I can reach out a ways on antelope. This was a fun trip and hunting oak brush and dark timber is certainly a challenge.

I had a similar experience only on a proportionally smaller scale.

A high lung shot behind the shoulder with a 7x57 and a Red Deer. The projectile used was a Sierra 140 SptBt. Considerably 'softer' than a partition. No exit wound but the projectile 'came apart' inside causing massive internal trauma. The animal went five steps straight down hill and died on its feet.

Like Stonecreek I have never seen an animal die from off side damage. The current need/fad for full penetration and weight retention eludes me.

I own a .264Wm and am huge fan of them. My avatar died from one loaded with 140 Woodleighs.

At a high 3,100 fps and at only 40 yards, it is probable that the Partition front-end fragmented inside the animal, and the small exit wound was caused by the bullet shank at caliber diameter, like a solid. But hey, you got your first Elk! Congrats!

The partition is designed to open quickly, and the front half will fragment with velocity. I load few partitions for that reason. Sure, they will often exit, but that's because what's left will act like a solid. The loads I still have confidence in, for example, are the 250gr .358 bullet in my 35 Whelen. The velocity isn't too great for the bullet design. However, as soon as those I have are used up, I'll switch to another bullet. IMO, the A-frame is a much better choice. Frankly, I don't care what those people say, who advocate bullets that fragment, such as the Berger bullets. I will never be convinced fragmentation of a big game bullet is an advantage or desirable. When the partition was initially offered, it was a unique idea, and better at the time than alternatives. That is no longer the case, especially with magnum velocity.

KB

Congrats! Getting one is an accomplishment in itself most of the time.

Elk are bigger and take more abuse than many would believe. You've experienced first hand why the .338 WM is so popular a choice among elk hunters. Nate

My first bull elk was shot with a 140 grain Nosler Partition out of a .264 at about the same 3100 fps, and was also shot in about the same high lung location. I happened to be able to get off a second shot that caught him about the diaphragm. Had he been so inclined, he could have probably made it 150 yards, but as it was, only went 30 or so.

Fast forward ten years and I shoot a similar bull with a 225 grain Partition from a .338 in the same high lung location. As this one was on the run and immediately disappeared below a rise there was no chance for a follow-up shot. He went about 150 yards before keeling over dead.

Regardless of what the caliber or bullet, when an elk takes a high lung shot they are (1) going to die pretty soon, and (2) going to do it within about 150 yards or so, depending on whether they are inclined to run or not so inclined. Also, the high lung shot is not going to leave a copious blood trail, regardless of bullet or caliber.

Among all of the elk that I've killed, seen killed, or was present to inspect the scene in the immediate aftermath, the only one I've seen hit the ground immediately was one that was hit in the head (and amazingly, it got back to its feet momentarily!) It happens, but as with most large game, only when an element of the central nervous system is hit. Six hundred to eight hundred pounds of mountain-bred animal just doesn't succumb quickly to gunshots to the thorax.

Stonecreek- Completely agree.
I just think that many who don't get the quick "DRT" type kills begin to look for a bigger hole.
I like the .338 though. It's very effective, but like anything placement will still be key to results. It does let a lot of cold air in & warm blood out quickly, and generally exits regaurdless of angle.

BigNate: Last fall a hunting companion put three 180 grainers from a .300 Win Magnum through the forward thorax of a medium-sized bull from about 100 yards. The bull looked like he was going to go down, but recovered enough to stumble down a ravine about 50 yards, which obviously made recovering him some bit more work.

Afterward my companion speculated that maybe he should switch to 200 grain bullets. But I pointed out to him that all three bullets had penetrated and exited, that the lungs and heart were converted to a near liquid state, and asked what more would it be that a bullet could do? He mused on that a bit and eventually allowed as how he'd just better "spine 'em" if they're close to somewhere you don't want them to go.

I think I am a victom of over analizing some situations. This was not a bad shot, but sure could have been better. Now I know why I had a small exit hole and why I had a lack of blood. I'm thankful that I found him and I still have confidence in my 264. These bulls are tougher than I thought and I was suprised at his ability to get that far. I'll know better next year.

If I was to use the 264 on elk I would use the lapua 155 gr mega tip.I use the 338 win mag for all game bigger than deer and I have two 264s .I like them on lang range deer and pronghorns perfict for that.Its small for elk .If you can shoot a 264 a 338 is alot better for the job!!!

It doesn't really matter how big or tough the animal is. Last month I shot a red fox with a .300 WSM, 180 gr. TSX, 30 yards, hit him right behind the diaphragm, (he was trotting away obliquely), it slung him about 10 yards. He scrambled to his 2 remaining feet, drug himself off faster than I could run, and absorbed a .45 ACP through both shoulders without visibly acknowledging the hit. Ran about 20 more yards before I klled him with another .45 via the Mexican heart shot.

Neither the .300 nor the .45 ACP are any slouch when it comes to stopping the poor red fox, but nobody told this little guy. There wasn't enough left to skin. Shot placement in this instance shouldn't have made the difference that it did, since the first shot nearly blew him in two, and both the next two should have been more than enough.

You just can't predict what will happen when you put a bullet into something. Every individual is different. Made me sick to have to keep shooting this 10 lb fox, but I won't go out and get a .338 for the next one. A .17 HMR has worked fine in the past.

Back a number of years ago my best friend and his brother took two bull Elk in Colorado. My friend used a 30-06 with 168 Match King Sierra (yeah I know not recommended for hunting) and his brother used a 264 Win Mag, not sure the ammo, but I could almost bet it was a factory load. They took the two that were together at between 400 to 500 yards, both are exceptional rifle shots and my friend I do know practiced his long range shooting a great deal. Both were heart shots and both Elk dropped just about where they were shot.

I know a writer who was doing some forensic study on why some big game animals DRT while others, that were hit in the same exact spot with the same type bullet, run for many yards. He took an Elk with a 338 through the heart and it DRT. The next one he took he waited until he had the same exact angle at the same distance and shot it through the the heart. It ran quite a distance before piling up. Upon the autopsy the forensic doctor found the same damage in the heart area, but upon examining the brains of both animals he found the one that DRT had hemorrhaging throughout the entire brain, while the one that ran a good ways did not. His explanation was the one with the hemorrhaging heart was in the pumping blood out of the heart cycle and the bullet hitting the heart greatly increased the blood pressure causing the fragile blood vessels in the brain to rupture. The other Elk he believes heart was not in the pumping blood out of the heart cycle. Makes sense maybe for heart shots, but not other parts of the anatomy, unless a larget aorta was hit.

By the way I wonder if the red fox was on drugs or not!!!

Redd Foxx...Maybe he was on drugs. The red fox, no, he was as surprised at being shot as I was that he kept going like the Energizer bunny. I actually thought I kept missing him until I counted the bullet holes.

I've put the 264 to bed for the winter. I'm trying a 6mm X 284 for coyote hunting this winter. I'll start working on loads as soon as the snow melts (maybe tomorrow). This should be a fun project and I hope it works out as well as I think it will. Thanks for all the advice.