Guys,

I am new to small bores. My past preference has been to things at least .308 caliber but realized I need something between .224 and the .308 to complete the battery.

Just acquired a Mark X barreled action in .264 WM with a 1:9 twist but know little save that it is in about the right size to fit in my battery.

Would appreciate any additional background on the caliber, the available bullets, and its good and bad attributes.

Thanks!

Mike, I own one with a 1:9 twist and it will do everything I ask it to do. Some say they will not stabilize the 140 and up bullets, but mine always has. You probably know that you can either buy 264 brass or you can just resize 7mag brass and get the same thing. I shoot mainly 125 Partitions or 129 Hornadys in mine since it is more for longer range whitetail hunting. I shoot more for accuracy, so I don't load it really hot. I shoot either if these bullets with 60 grains of IMR4831 and it has outstanding accuracy.

If I was to go elk hunting with it, I would load 140 partitions and be perfectly happy.

Larry,

Thank you for the comments!

Some reports of limited barrel life in this caliber. Any comments?

Thanks,

mstarling: welcome to the 264 cult...I mean club (grin). I use mine as a long range deer gun also. It likes the 125gr Partition or 130 Accubond at about 3300fps pushed by IMR7828. If you don't heat up the barrel with rapid fire (don't know why anyone would do that with a 264) you should see no problems with barrel life for a hunting rifle. IMO, the barrel life issue is bogus..no worse in a 264 than it is with other cartridges with similar bore-to-capacity ratios.

had one with a cheap barrel on it years ago. used to load these little 77 gr norma bullets behind a casefull of H4831 and then go out and blast pussycrats. Barrel didn't last long - neither did the pussycrat

A .264 Win was my first serious game rifle at age 14. I still have and use the same gun regularly some 33 years later. Of the roughly 3000 rounds it has had down the barrel, only one box of twenty rounds have been factory loads. So I guess you might call me an "experienced" .264 handloader.

A few observations:

1. Factory loads are expensive and hard to find these days. However, this is a good thing as they are woefully underloaded and are worth less than the brass they are packed in.

2. It is hard to find a powder that is too slow for a .264. H870 was always regarded as "about right", and it does okay, but I prefer even slower powders. IMR-7828, RL-22 & 25, Retumbo, and other "pistol" powders should be reserved for lighter bullets of 120 grains and under.

3. For optimum velocities with the very useful 140 grain bullet try surplus powders like WC-860, WC-872, or the new Hodgdon US 869. If it works in a .50 MG, then it will likely do well in a .264.

4. Lots of powder at high pressure will wear out a barrel. Eventually. If you shoot your gun only for reasonable load development, a few shots each year for checking the zero, and all the live, warm game bodies you can line up in its sights, then your grandchildren may have to worry about replacing the barrel -- for the use of their children.

My 1965 vintage Sako shows an inch or so of very rough "alligator skin" in the rifling grooves just in front of the chamber. One result seems to be that it takes about a grain more powder to reach the same velocities as when it was newer. When it starts throwing 140 grain Nosler Partitions into groups of larger than an inch, I'll start looking for a new barrel.

Stonecreek: what are the "optimum velocities" with 140gr bullets that you get with machine gun powders?

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
Stonecreek: what are the "optimum velocities" with 140gr bullets that you get with machine gun powders?

As everybody knows, barrels vary in the velocities that they will yield. However, with 24.4" barrel, I get 3150 fps out of the 140 Nosler (this is with a load of WC-872). In the "old days" I used to use H-570 (almost identical in speed to H-870 and H5010) under a 140 Speer for around 3130 fps.

I would be happy with anything in the 3100 fps area, but if you happen to have a 26" barrel, you can probably safely reach the original published velocity of 3200 fps with a 140 grain bullet.

I know some shooters that do reach 3100+ fps with H4831, but not at pressures that allow multiple reloadings of the brass. H-4831 and powders of similar buring rate do pretty well with 120's or lighter, and would be optimum with 100 grain bullets (if you had a use for them in this caliber).

Note: Some .264 chambers were made with essentially NO leade; that is, the rifling started immediately at the mouth of the case. I can't even start to explain to you why someone at Winchester thought this was a good design. At any rate, if you have such a chamber, take it to a dependable gunsmith who is capable of extending the leade to a more normal length. Guns with the "zero freebore" chambers will run somewhat higher pressures and require much deeper seating of the bullet.

I also load for a Win M70 264 mag with 24 inch barrel with slow surplus powders and you can achieve 3200 fps safely with a 140 gr bullet and the right LOT of WC872. Here are some chrono results from factory and reloads-


Remington Express 140 CL-3018fps 36ES
Winchester Superx 140PP-3014fps 32 ES

rp brass, fc 215 pr, 140 hornady,wc872-3196fps
ditto , 160 hornady, wc872-3016fps
ditto , 160 hornady,Imr5010-3025fps

In a recent article by John Barsness, he was able to top 3200 with 140gr bullets with both MagPro and Magnum (26" bbl).

All personal preference, I guess, but for deer, I prefer a well-built 125 or 130gr bullet. All you need for any deer, a little higher velocity and slightly less recoil.

If I were taking the 264 after elk, I'd prefer the 140gr Partition. But then again, if I were after elk, I'd probably take something other than a 264.

Mike, I agree with the others regarding barrel life. If I was shooting 85 grain Sierras at PDs, I would worry, but not with reasonable prudent care and cleaning.

The other thing I would say is to forget about that stupid belt on the case. I "fireform" my brass by shooting a load in it and then neck sizing from there on. If you compare the two cases, new and once fired, you will see quite a difference in there the shoulder sits. At least I did in mine. Mine also likes the bullets just touching the lands, 3.29" OAL with the 125 Partition and 129 Hornady, if I recall correctly.

Reloading: My .264 is a factory Model 70 26" with a little massaging by my gunsmith. I found mine to be very selective about what I feed it and how they are loaded. It prefers 140 grain Hornady SP's and 140 grain Barnes XLC's with max loads of slower powders. Extensive experimentation gives me consistent sub-MOA groups with velocities that run 3100 to 3175fps.


Hunting: In my experience, the .264 kills far better that it probably ought to. I have taken numerous species of big game from deer and pronghorn up to elk, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok, and a 600 pound boar. The Hornady works well on the lighter game, but is to soft for the bigger stuff. The Barnes almost always shot completely through bigger game like zebra and elk when shot broadside. The only animal that had no exit wound was the shoulder shot on the pig.

My buddy has a pre-64 in .264. He shoots only factory loads. They chronograph a little slow, but they are accurate in his gun. He regularly uses it for everything from deer up to moose.

I have been shooting the 264 since the late 60s. Try and find yourself some Hodgins 8-870 powder. Gun shows has it around. Then use about 73.5 grs and a Sierra 140 Gameking [CCI 250 primer] and you are good to go. [This load is safe in my 264 but WORK UP to it in your rifle] If the barrel is anywhere near good accuracy and barrel life will be great and this cartridge will do just about anything you will need in the lower 48 and even more if you plan your shots! Good luck with a GREAT cartridge.
Aloha, Mark