I have a Mini Mauser action that I am thinking of barreling to this caliber. My magazine isn't long enough for the 17 Remington, but this caliber should not pose any problem. My magazine and bolt face are .223 size. I'd like to know how finicky it is to load for and what your accuracy experience is like.

I worked on load development for a friends 17 Fireball...

tested 16 different powders with the 20 grain V Max...

not finicky to load for...as long as you get use to handling those little tiny bullets..which I eventually did..

it is a fun little cartridge...

accuracy out of his single shot T/C was excellent...

Been breaking one of the Remington stainless fluted models in over the last week and it seems to like 19.0-19.5 grains of Benchmark pretty well behind the 20 grain VMAXS. Have some 25 grain VMAXS courtesy of a friend from the forums here that will get tested in the near future. No chrono data, just group data. GHD

Contact,
Montdoug,
He knows about all there is to know about small calibers. Send him a PM

Stepcild

Here is a copy of something I posted shortly after I acquired a rem model 7 predator.

........I love small calibers and have been shooting the seventeens for years. Back when virgin valley firearms was in business I had them make barrels for my contenders in 17 ackley hornet, and 17 mach IV. Both had 22� barrels that were light, fast and accurate. Two drawbacks,--single shot and with the original contender you have to open the action if you let the hammer down on an unfired round before you could re-cock the trigger.
For the last couple of years I’ve had the craving for a repeater in 17 mach IV. I have my share of heavy barreled varmint rifles and recently I have been doing much more game calling and “walking varminting�. Most of my shots are 100 yds. and under. I wanted a light rifle that would have a 22 “ barrel and a synthetic stock and a repeater. I would mount a 2 x 7 up to a 3 x 9 scope. . To my mind the mach IV with a 20 gr. bullet at 3800 to 4000 fps is a great varmint round.
Remington must have been reading my mind because they came out with their model 7 predator in 17 fireball. I couldn’t resist.
I have 17 fireball dies and brass on order, but I do not have them in my possession yet. However, I do have 17 mach IV brass, dies and a number of loaded rounds using 25 gr. Hornady hollow points over 15.8 and 15.9 grains of H-4198. Being the impatient type, couldn’t wait to shoot the rifle and do some load testing. I mounted a scope and went to the range. I used some of these loaded rounds to zero the scope and to fireform some brass in the 17 fireballs’ chamber. My first outing was somewhat disappointing. Velocity was sup-par and groups were over an inch.
Needless to say, I was bummed. I went home and took the rifle out of the stock and worked on the stock to free float the barrel. I also dug out some of my old Small Caliber News mags. I had forgotten about using Reloader 10x, so I loaded up some 18 gr. Bergers ,some 20 gr. V-maxes and some 25 gr hornady hollowpoints, all over several different load densities of reloader 10x.
Loads ranged from 17 grains to 18.3 grains. One fellow reported loading 19 grains, but I wanted to be conservative to start with. I fired a total of 37 rounds, 4 shots to zero and then fired 11 three shot groups. I cleaned the barrel before this second outing. I figured the 4 shots I took to zero the scope would sufficiently foul the barrel. I did not clean between the first and eleventh group.

Observations:
Although I am a blue steel and wood guy, I like the camo barrel and synthetic stock on this little rifle. The new x-mark pro trigger breaks crisply at 3.5 lbs. After free floating the barrel, groups were tighter and more consistant.
+/ 3950 fps out of a 22 inch barrel and no pressure signs, and room to spare in the case. A velocity over 4000 fps should be attainable without pressure signs.
These groups were shot in a cross wind 10 mph+ At 100 yds. and under, wind shouldn’t be a factor unless you’re shooting in a hurricane.
The 18 and 20 gr bullets shot the better groups
The bullets were loaded to the same seating depth, and the 18 gr bergers’ at 1.720 oal shot just as good if not better than the 20 gr. V-maxes’ (the longest bullet overall) at 1.800 oal.
The first group (25 gr hdy h.p., 17 gr rl-10x) and last group were both sub inch. Chances are I can get off more rounds in a day than I’ll shoot before accuracy is degraded.

The following pix are of the model 7 predator and the 11 different groups using reloader 10-x.
GWB














and here are results of a short calling session using the 17 fireball

Geedub:

we got a lot better groups out of RL 7 and IMR4895 with the 17Fireball out of that T/C I loaded for, than your results with Rl 10...

my results with Rl 10 were similar to yours...

but on the plus side...

1. no one can argue with your results...

2. that is definitely a nice looking little rig you have there...

I like it much better than that T/C I was loading for...I just can't warm up to a T/C...

Gotta admit tho, I'd go for a camo scope on that sweet looking little rig...

I'd rather shoot a less accurate un-ugly gun than a more accurate ugly one...

Just let me add something, when you are using cases this small it is imperitive to go easy on the increments, like ,1 tenth The smaller the case the more important this becomes.
I had to send a rifle to Remington(221 Fireball) I went over the edge and screwed up the bolt face. It cost me $150 something.
Go easy, but what's not to like about getting close to 500 rounds out of a # of powder.

Stepchild

Again, you ain't loading a 30/06 where 4-5 gr increase doesn't mean the end of the world.

Seafire,
I don't think its the gun, I think its the shooter.
In my old age, and still being excitable, I don't shoot as good as I used to.
Most of the varmints I shoot, I call in within 30 yds. Fifty yds is a long shot. I also use 2.5 x 8 and 3 x 9 scopes. An inch at 100 yds is plenty good for my purposes so I don't get to anal about getting one hole groups on my "calling" and "walking" varminters.
On a similar note, I've often said if accuracy was the totality of what I looked for in a rifle I would own a bunch of Savage rifles. And 10/4 on the TC's. At one time I had two encore frames and three contender frames and about a dozen different barrels from 17 ackley hornet up to 44 mag. I am down to one frame and barrel now.
Best to you and yours.
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:
Contact,
Montdoug,
He knows about all there is to know about small calibers. Send him a PM

stepchild 2

Stepchild that's mighty nice of you to say that but I can assure you I'm learning all the time, that's why I like em so much. I'll also add that there are a couple other fellas I know that post on this site as in-- "Kevin Gullette" and "Dan C" that have forgotten more about .17's and .20 than I know.
Caveats aside I will say that in over 50 years of hunting and 40 years of reloading the sub .22 calibers have had my main focus of attention for a lotta years now and the fact that they are so different from the bigger stuff has created a new excitement and a lotta room to learn in an old hobby. I flat love em !!!
I know Geedubya has a similar fascination and also I think Stepchild made a most valid point in that 1 or 2 tenths in the small cases can make a substantial difference in pressure when getting close to the edge so nowhere in reloading is the old adage "start low and move up slow more appropriate".
I do in fact have a .17 Fire Ball and while it is a dandy round it near duplicates the .17 MachIV many of us have been shooting for years.
My .17 Fire Ball is on a re-worked Remington VSF that has been seriously tweaked and proves to me the round is capable of being as accurate as the rifle you build it on will let it.
Here's a picture of mine. Sorry bout the repost.



Geedubya's posts show some real decent groups for a light weight carry rifle that's a repeater to boot, what a dandy. Love the picture of the fox fur rifle racks .
Here's a picture of a group I shot the first day I had my rifle back from the smith after having the action single pointed the bolt double sleeved and bushed etc. Keep in mind mine is "not" a convenient light carry rifle but a heavy rifle that has been seriously accurized.
At the point I shot this group brass was still tough to get and I'd bought a bunch of Remington taylor-made's to get that needed brass. After break in this was one of my first groups at 100 yards and I started out to shoot a 10 shot group but as I've said before my ego got involved when I pulled the 6th shot off the reservation to the right so I figured I'd stop at 6. Keep in mind that's factory ammo. I post this not to claim I can shoot duplicates of it every time or to fluff my hat size which is already big enough but as a testimonial to how rounds like the .17 Fire Ball can shoot when ya got a good smith and good ammo (Kudo's to Remington on their stuff at least in my rifle). The .17 Fire Ball is capable of as good a accuracy as any varmint round out there. (Personally I'm a big fan of any round made from the .221 parent case). A lotta guys run down the small calibers but then a lotta guys never shot one either , to each his own. Make mine tiny please



As to powders there are a number that work well for this little fella, a couple of my favorites are H4198 (meters terrible, gotta weigh every load in my book) and N133. As GHD posted Benchmark is a good one as is H322. Not real finicky in my experience.
When ya first shoot one at the range the quietness of it and watching every hit or miss gotta make ya giggle.
I guess it's obvious I'm biased huh??

yeah Doug,

those were the kind of groups I was seeing with that T/C...or smaller..

RL 7 and 4895 gave even smaller tighter groups, believe it or not..

Hey guys, a new precinct heard from after testing a bit this past weekend.Accurate 2230!! Figured I'd try it a bit as it works so well in 222Mag and 204 and was pleasantly surprised. Just as in the 222Mag and 204, velocity was up there. 4036fps with the 25VMAX and consistent accuracy over 5 different 5 shot groups with no cleaning over the shooting session. I won't post the load as I checked last night and it's a tad over the loads shown from Accurate. I used MachIV data to start with. GHD

Wow! I'm convinced! I'm gonna send off the action for a 17 Fireball barrel.

Sounds good, you'll love it!
If I may I'd recommend a Pac-Nor 3 groove Super Match stainless with a 1 in 9 twist.
Reasonably priced, great folks and man do they know their way around a small caliber barrel!!! The 1 in 9 will stabilize the 25 grain V-Max which is a fantastic bullet IMO and some 1 in 10's seem to have a problem doing so. It'll still work fine for 20 grainers and do a good job with 30 grain Berger's if ya can find any or Todd Kindler's 30 grain Gold bullet. The 30 grainers'd make it a real decent 250 yard coyote rifle, again IMO.
Seafire I'm glad to see your coming around to the small caliber light . Keep working on him GHD .
I'd hang on to that TC by the way. While the macro on the camera makes that group appear large next to that 20 grain bullet, that 6 shot group is a .237 center to center.

Doug,

Not knocking your groups my friend..

just reporting that RL 7 and IMR 4895 did that good or even better...

both with me shooting it and the guns owner and the gunsmith who put it together...
three different shooters..

with those little V Maxes that round is evidently is capable of turning in some mind boggling groups...

I'd like to be able to load up some of those 20 grain FMJs like they are loading in the 17 HMR and see what they will do at 3800 to 4000 fps..

No problem seafire .
If someones shooting groups in the .1's with a .17 caliber I'm all ears on how their getting er done. Congrats!!
My only beef with IMR4895 would be kernel size and metering issues. Gotta be a major pain with a .17 but for the groups your talking a lotta guys would load their cases up 1 kernel at a time .
Glad your having success with it, as I been telling ya for years these little screamers are a gas in the ground squirrel or p-dog pastures. Spread a ground squirrel over 3 square feet and ya get to see all of it in the scope! Gotta love em.

Doug(and others), After our conversation the other day, I dropped back a bit. 19.3 grains of AA2230 gives 3895fps but the dramatic effect on groups @ 100 yards is amazing! I can live with aggregates of 5 groups measuring .188"!! Solved the problem of the "need to foul bore" also!! Clean, shot 25 times, ........makes no difference! Slowed it down, shoots like a GHD rifle now!! First blood will be drawn on Monday!! It's the "little guy" that gets the short stuff!! Plans are for 3 folks to be in the VARMINT HUNTERS 1000 yard club officially by Monday night. Planned calibers for inclusion are 6mmRem, 260 Rem and 300RUM. ........yea, one of the guys likes really big stuff!! Will post pics and story. Charlie (GHD)

quote:

My only beef with IMR4895 would be kernel size and metering issues.

I was just pouring it in slowly thru the funnel, and it presented no problems..

I also tested 3031 and 4064 in the 17 Fireball...

now THERE are some metering concerns for ya!

Ya ever load 4 or 5 hundred of em at a time? .

What ever works for a guy is is great by me. I guess metering isn't my only "personal" issue with IMR 4895 or 4064 however anyway, the main thing is I like faster burning powders in the .17 Fire Ball to boot. Powders like N133 or Benchmark you can throw from the measure directly into the case and have always worked well for me in the .17 MachIV/Fire Ball etc.
Lotta ways around the barn but they sure are fun little rat smackers however ya get there.

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
Doug(and others), After our conversation the other day, I dropped back a bit. 19.3 grains of AA2230 gives 3895fps but the dramatic effect on groups @ 100 yards is amazing! I can live with aggregates of 5 groups measuring .188"!! Solved the problem of the "need to foul bore" also!! Clean, shot 25 times, ........makes no difference! Slowed it down, shoots like a GHD rifle now!! First blood will be drawn on Monday!! It's the "little guy" that gets the short stuff!! Plans are for 3 folks to be in the VARMINT HUNTERS 1000 yard club officially by Monday night. Planned calibers for inclusion are 6mmRem, 260 Rem and 300RUM. ........yea, one of the guys likes really big stuff!! Will post pics and story. Charlie (GHD)

Knock em silly GHD!!!