Hi Guys...I've been trying to tame this Howa...I have about 200 shots through it so far. Here are some targets from the range today shooting off the bench. I'd like any suggestions for a good deer bullet. I have the coyote bullet at about an inch but can't get there yet with the deer sized bullets.

Here is the best group... Hornady 58gr. VMAX Molly hand loads (There is about twleve in the paper):



Here is a group of Combined Technologies Ballistic Silvertip 95 grain handloads.



The final group is store bought Remington 100 grain Core-Lokt.

Seems like I am clumping the bullets into three disctinct groups on the top target. Any ideas?

At what distance were these groups fired, and what are you expectations for the rife? What type of sights are you using, and lastily from what type of rest are you shooting?


In the Eastern deer woods, the 95's will kill all the deer you aim at even with the groups shown.

1"

Cabelas Alaska Guide 3x9x40 100 yards. Plastic rest with a back and front.

If you are using some sort of hard plastic rest that might be one of your problems. Try a sandbag of some sort at least for the front rest.

Here is my rest (without the strap on the front):

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link....yncharset=ISO-8859-1

Here is the gun (I put a different scope on it after this picture):

S T D, The points are that how the rifle is supported, and how much consistency you are able to provide at the bench has alot to do with the results you get. Shoulder pressure and how you touch the rifle with your cheek, as well as both hands pressure and consistency of that pressure will affect the apparent accuracy you see on paper. Then again, I forgot to ask how is the trigger in the rifle, 2 1/4 lbs and crisp, or 5 lbs and sloppy? You aren't doing to bad for starting out, and you will not miss the deer!

Trigger is a very crisp 2.5 # done by my gunsmith. I'm still learning about consistency....probably will never get there totally. I'd like to shoot chucks and yotes too. I'm not too worried about the accuracy for deer.

quote:

I'd like to shoot chucks and yotes too. I'm not too worried about the accuracy for deer.

All right because group size has little to do with killing deer; the first shot coming close to your point of aim does. roger

accuracy over precision eh?

If you want to see how it shoots, stick it on some sand bags, i cant imagine that rest is going to win you a benchrest comp. also bed it and float the barrel if that isnt already done.

also, the nut behind the butt is a factor

I would suggest that
a: you burn that rest.
b: use it as a target.

Shoot off bags as others have suggested for better accuracy.My Howa sings for me !

O.K. I'll get the 14lb steel rest and a bag for the butt stock . Wierd thing is I shoot my Savage 30.06 and .22 LR well off the rest. I'll give it a try.

Now...let's talk about some recommended deer bullets and powders for the .243 Win. What is accurate and precise

STD

Welcome to AR.
Once Upon a Time I did an extensive load development for a Ruger No1 in 243.

I finally found some loads. Later after I got married I tried the same loads in a Remington Mod 7 and they shot very good in that rifle as well.

I killed several deer with these loads and my wife killed a LOT of deer, whitetail and mule, as well as several antelope.

Try these loads in your rifle and see what happens.

Bullets: the 100gr Sierra or the 95gr Nosler Partition.

Powder IMR 4350:

Both rifles shot great with either bullet and 40gr of powder, AND with either bullet and 42 grains of powder.

We used 40 grains of IMR 4350 for our Texas hunting [where shots were close] and 42gr of IMR 4350 for our Wyoming and Colorado hunting, where shots were longer.

My wife killed several antelope at 325 to 350 yards with these loads.

For a deer hunting load try using a Barnes TSX 85 grain bullet. I really like Varget with that bullet. Try starting at 37 grains of Varget and go up in 1/2 grain steps to 38.5 then move in .3 grain steps if you don't have what you need. I get 1/2 inch groups out of an old Sako with 38.5 at 3100 FPS. The bullet gives you penetration to throw in the toilet.

Whizzbang, I think my physics teacher went over 'accuracy vs. precision'

Anyways, Howas in MY experience had long throats, a 223 and 22/250 did about 5/8" groups, when seating bullets CLOSER to lands, but not sure either ever reached them, my 7/08 carbine did not fare as well, but shot Deer of angle.

I'd play around with bullet seating depth.

Powder, ALWAYS used IMR 4350 in my 243's with very good accuracy from 85-100 grains. Varget w/70s. Check manuals, I'd use Winchester or Federal brass, once fired and partial size to your chamber. That's just me.....typically sporters have shot 5/8-7/8 range, even had groups i.e. #1 Ruger 1A do a 3/8 3shot at 100 yds, and a Low Wall Browning do 1/2" first 2 shots at 200 yds, but all in all, IMR 4350 was my 'GO To powder' for 243 and never disappointed.

H414 can wad up bullets i.e. 60 grain Sierra HPs.

Good advice above. ALL else, maybe try another scope just because. Parallax might be an issue.

Accuracy vs precision

Picture two rulers, one being a digital with a readout to .001" of an inch. They other ruler is a stick ruler that is graduated to 1/16" increments.

The Digital is more precise, but if it isn't calibrated or if it's broken it may be less accurite than the stick rule. Make sense?

My Savage .243 did quite well with Federal Power-Shok soft point 100 gr. This ammo was also the least expensive in the store.

I have the Howa Varminter in .243. It'll do .5 MOA using 87gr HRNDY V-Max and 43.4gr of H4350.

100gr Hornady Interlock BTSP with RL22. I am using a max load in my rifle.

Shot a dozen shots tonight with a cool barrell and it helped shrink group size a bit. Still not there yet but getting closer. Will post pictures of the targets if I get the chance. My hand load .58gr. VMAX shot much better than the Fedral Power Shok 80 grains today. Significantly better.

Glad to see some progress for you, have faith in the rifle. Keep us posted.

Accuracy vs precision, I thought I remembered precision was how tight a group was, and accuracy was how well you hit what you were aiming at, or how close to it.

I recall years back, my then father n law who has passed, shot shotguns all his life till his last few years. I would show him targets how well my guns grouped, and he always commented, 'how well can you hit with it?' which I think he wanted to know, off the bags, when it counts, can I make that first and often one shot.....hit the mark.....ie. on deer.

More hunting under my belt made me appreciate his question more. Many guns are more accurate than needed, or that we might take advantage of in the field, but I'll take all the help I can get. If I miss with a one hole gun, it's my fault and I can do nothing but take full owndership of it!

I do have a question re: that Howa.....you shooting 12 shot groups? I usually do 3, shows me what I am looking for, and under real conditions as 1 shot cold bbl is often what I get on big game, the next 2 confirm sight in, and consistency, and saves components (ie. $$) and wear on my bbl. Those matter to me, some it does not.

As most know 3 shots does not heat up a bbl as fast as 5 or more, and can allow more strings, les time between groups due to less cool down time. And lastly I recall seeing a guy shooting non stop never allowing his bbl to cool, went thru a couple of boxes of 7mag. He never could get tight groups...bbl too hot, and he likely had no idea he was prematurely wearing out the bbl from the soft HOT steel esp. in the throat.

Let us know how it does. The 85 BTHP by Sierra was always very accurate for me in any 243, but the 87 Hornady's are excellent as well.

Re: those Federals, I had a Sako AII once, a sporter, shot a 7 shot group at 200 yds w/red-white box of 100gr Federals give/take 1.5" with a 4x B&L scope so they may be worth a go. Did chrono some Rem's a year back and they were a little slow for 100s.

BTW, those small groups I mentioned above in another post were with 85 Sierras (and they do a number on lung shot deer), but if you want a tad heavier bullet for bad angles and/or longer range, try a 95 ballistic tip. Shoot well, and deadly I am told, on deer.

quote:

Originally posted by whizzbang:
accuracy over precision eh?

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
Accuracy vs precision, I thought I remembered precision was how tight a group was,
and accuracy was how well you hit what you were aiming at, or how close to it.

Yep.

As 6.5BR stated, with a gun used on game in real world situations
(and not BR or some other paper punching), one shot exactly at point of aim is all I need for accurate precision.

How closely the next shot or two groups means little when the game is running!

Try the TSX or TTSX bullets. They have worked well for me.

The longer I am at this sport the more confused I get.

My Ruger .243 will shoot the light bullets really well (55 grains to 75 grains) and shoots the 80 and 85 grains pretty well, too, but it will not group the 90 and 100 grain bullets well. I could hit a deer with the 90 and 100 grains, but my really tight groups come from 80 grains and under. You may not be able to shoot varmint bullets and the 100 grain bullets with the same precision.

I think your rest is fine , Try a Sims Barrel doughnut ........... Cabela,s has them I think ...
Why such an explosive bullet for coyotes ....A good tough deer bullet would kill them dead and not tear up the hide ........