I'm having a hard time figuring out my 17 Rem and was hoping you guys could add some insight. I have a few ideas, but let me know what you think.

To start, I received the rifle from my uncle and have no idea how many rounds were put through it before I got it. I'm guessing it's about 25 years old. I'm loading 24.2 gr of 4320, a 25 gr hollow point from Hornady and Remington 7 1/2 primers. I cleaned the rifle well before I went to the range today. My first 5 rounds at 100yds were all over the paper with no pattern whatsoever. The next 5 patterned within an area the size of a quarter. Could there be something going on with my barrel?

Some barrels shoot better with a little fouling in the bore. It fills in the little imperfections in the bore surface.

George

What happened with the next group?
Are the projectiles all from the same batch? What age are the projectiles? If the box of projectiles has been dropped on a hard surface, this may impact heavily on accuracy. Have you weighed each powder charge? Remember this is a small capacity case and any minor variance in charges has a major influence.
I have had mediocre performance from 25hr Hornady's, but excellent accuracy from VMax 20 grainers. Some Remington brass is very weak in the neck area - doesn't seem to be properly annealed. Have a good look at your brass for cracks/splits in the necks. This could cause a couple of flyers.
What make & model is your rifle? I currently shoot Sako HB - great triggers!

The first thing I would do is start with the basics. Are the action screws tight, are the scope base screws tight, is the scope defective, try a different scope. Check the barrel crown for damage, In other words look over the entire gun. If all above checks out then I would super clean the barrel. .17 Rems are noted for excessive fouling, especially in factory barrels. Your load sounds good, try some match grade bullets. Let us know the results, I am sure we can walk you through your problem.

you can't believe everything you hear, but I'll tell you I've heard both sides.
The one side says the 17 rem stinks, fouls, and is crap.
The other side says they bought one, shot it 300+ times, no cleaning, and it did fine. They only cleaned it out of obligation.
So if you take half out of the middle, it must not be as bad or as good as people make it out to be.
For groundhogs and other similiar animals, I'd love to have one.
I know a guy who hunts everything but bears and deer with it.
The only reason he doesn't hunt deer with it is because it is illegal here.

Funny you say that Mat77. I have owned a Sako 17 Rem for a couple of yrs now. Most of what I have read suggests it should foul like ther proverbial after 20 or so rounds. This certainly hasn't been the case. I suspect barrel quality has a fair bit to do with fouling propensity. I get similar accuracy after 70 rounds as what I do from the first 5... go figure.

I decided not to clean the barrel and shot it cold the following weekend. Groups were all over again. I thought accuracy is supposed to decrease as the barrel heats up? All charge weights were manually weighed on a scale. No signs of damage to the bullets. No damage to the cases after they have been shot. The scope is a Leupold 24x that I even had sent back to the company to have it checked. No problems there. Scope mounts are fine. Still have to do a thorough check for rifle damage, but don't expect any problems there either.
Anyway, could I be loading them too hot? I may try to work my way up again from about 21 grains with the V-Max. Any other suggestions?

Jethro, sometimes an older rifle will have worked loose a bit in the stock. Might try taking it completely out of the stock, cleaning it up, then snugging it down nice. If it responds well to that, a glass bedding job might be in order. Sounds like you've already made sure the scope mounts are tight.

I had a Rem 700 .308 that wouldn't shoot well in the crummy synthetic stock a previous owner had installed. It placed the first bullet about an inch high, then slowly moved down into a nice group. The second group would usually look pretty good. Replaced that stock with a good HS Precision stock and groups & consistency improved tremendously.

Have also had good success just tightening up everything on older rifles. Good Luck, Guy

Try this load!!!!!!!
25 gr bullet,I use Starke bullets.
26.4 grs of ww760
Rem 7 1/2 primer

My rifle shoots one holers with this load as well as a few other buddys.

One thing you might do is inspect the crown very closely. If there is any doubt have it recrowned.

Jethro,
Have you ever cleaned your barrel using Sweets 7.62 or anything that contains ammonia? If not your barrel is fouled and that is the place to begin. If your barrel is copper fouled all else will be a waste of time until it is removed.

Never used the Sweets. I'll pick up a bottle today and give it a try. Might as well start with the simplest solution.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I'll let you know how it works out.

Recrown it; glass bed it and try another scope.

To Jethro,

Back in 1972 I bought a 17 Remington, and it did exactly what you described. In about every third group there would even be one or two bullets keyholing. I tried everything I knew(but didn't use Sweets) and the problem persisted.

Since 1972, I have heard countless tales from people using the .17 Remington having the same problems.

Remington agents here in Australia replaced the first two rifles, and the problem reoccured again in the third.

I had my gunsmith replace the barrel with a shilen Stainless, and rechambered it to a .17/222 mag improved, which is a larger case and the velocity was about 200 fps higher (4300)and the problems of the previous barrels disappeared.

However, I immediately noticed that when cleaning the Shilen barrel, it felt so smooth compared to the Remington barrel. I believe that this seems to be the core of the problem.

Since then I have found that to drive bullets at about 4000 fps or higher, it is critical to use a good quality stainless steel barrel, and just as importantly to use some Sweets 7.62 (or similar ammonia based solvent) at the first sign of copper fouling.

Check the last inch of the barrel for a brown or copper colour, and if present, then you should immediately use the Sweets to remove the fouling.

In the last 20 years, I have used a string of high velocity rifles, (.22/250 imp, 22/284, 220 Ackley Swift, 224 Clark, and currently my second .17/222 mag imp), and with all of them I would use some Sweets after 20 shots, to remove most of the copper fouling, and prevent it from becoming a problem.

In retrospect, I am convinced that if I had adopted a similar policy back in 1972, then I wouldn't have had to have the first 2 .17 Remington rifles replaced.

Good luck, Brian

I just got my Pac-Nor, 17 Rem. barrel last night for my Savage 11G. I shot 40 rounds today and the biggest group was 1" at 100 yards. I shot 10-4 rd groups. And the last group was all 4 touching. No cleaning between groups. I have heard good and bad about Rem barrels. Mostly that they are rough and foul fast. The Pac-Nor cleaned up real easy.

DLS,
I am thinking about getting a .17 blank from Pac-Nor to build a 17/222. Did you get their top of the line stainless? What is your overall impression of Pac-Nor? I have never heard anything but good written about them but have never talked to anyone who has one of their barrels. How long did it take to get your barrel? Did they chamber and fit or did you purchase a blank?
Jim