..Everything on the rifle is tight .. A friend shot the rifle and he got a 1" round group . 5 shots . My groups are running less then an inch high x 1.5" - 3" wide .. . I just don,t know what I,m doing wrong ...
And can anyone tellmy why I generally shoot 338s and 375 as well as if not better than I do the 223 and 243 ....

Usually when I start to string shots horizontally, I am not pulling the gun into my shoulder constentially the same everytime, along with not gripping the stock the same as well.

You are probably doing this the same way each time with your 338, knowing if you don't it may hurt a bit.

This is often what happens when you miss read the wind.

muck

+ 1 mgoodrich.
Do you concentrate more w/ the bigger guns?
Last range session all I shot were 2 different 22LRs. I found myself NOT focusing and it certainly affected my groups. When I got my mind right, my groups tightened up nicely.

It sounds as if these are sporting weight rifles, in which case almost everything can effect the group size and location. From the position on the bags to the way your trigger hand grips the wrist, from the strength of your cheek weld to the way you re-align the rifle for easch shot. In effect consistency in all areas. If you have an area at home where you can set up your rifle and think through every aspect of firing a shot from how you are sitting, even to feet placement, and practice placeing the rifle on the bags, getting into the same position and feel every point of contact for consistency. Being aware of all these areas should help in having a light rifle shoot as well as it will. The heavier caliber as in the 338 is also probably a heavier rifle and is not quite as suceptable to slight changes in hold pressure as are the lighter rifles.

Von Gruff.

You're squeezing the rifle too tight. And you're not centering your grasp and trigger pull.

I'm not sure if anyone here has heard or dealt with cross-X scope position? But in any event, it's where you hold the rifle cross reticle off plane. In a perfect world we think that zero is just that zero. But when sighting in to shoot "DNC", we are pulling the natural (off the scopes optical center most point) zero to align with how the bbl delivers the bullet "POI". In doing so we have created a "false zero" in that we simply adjusted the reticle (not the actual optics) to align with our "POI". So in other words, we are not aligned with the absolute optical center. When this happens all it takes is the same counter [degree] in error to create a vertical or horizontal image that appears to be zero. But that's it, "appears to be". This is why it is so important to make sure your N/S/E/W reticles are properly aligned with the target.

. That day , day fore y day . was calm at the time , so it wasn,t the wind . I did alter my grip some . and one group I have NO IDEA what happened as that group ended up HUGE and scattered ... But the rest of them wern,t very tall , just wide . Beeman . I was not squeezing the rifle too tight as sometimes I had my left hand on the rest . .. The benches at this range here are very uncomfortable ... And my rest is one of those red plastic ones from M T M ...Rifle is a CZ 527 223 Varmint. 7-8 lbs ..Thank you for the replies all .... What The . could u explain that again , I was wondering about that as sometimes the target looks different ....Thot it was just my eyes..

I was talking about squeezing with the right hand. A tense grip can cause the rifle to pull to the side as you pull the trigger. What part of your finger are you using to pull the trigger? It should be just the tip (first joint) and the pull should be straight back.
If you get excited or frustrated, you can unconsiously pull the rifle.

quote:

+ 1 mgoodrich.
Do you concentrate more w/ the bigger guns?

I find that I do off the start. The worst recoil I have right now is my Ruger #1 in 7mm remington magnum. I have larger calibers, but those weigh quite a bit more so they are not bad to shoot.

When I shoot my .223 and my others 22's (swifts,22-250) I find that the first group tend to be larger, until I begin to concentrate more on every shot. It helps me to shoot at least once a week, but I am not able to do that all the time.

Follow thru! Try to see the puff of smoke at the end of the barrel before you blink. Takes a lot of concentration.
In benchrest if we get verticle stringing we add a little more powder. Most of the time.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I was talking about squeezing with the right hand. A tense grip can cause the rifle to pull to the side as you pull the trigger. What part of your finger are you using to pull the trigger? It should be just the tip (first joint) and the pull should be straight back.
If you get excited or frustrated, you can unconsiously pull the rifle.

.

. Most of the time I set the trigger which puts the pull at around 1 lb . and I use the tip ... I see what u mean about the grip . I may well have been gripping too hard ... I am suprised that the rifle moves a fair amount in recoil ... The smallest group was with 52gr Speer HP bullets which surprised me , the 53 gr TSX was close but the 52 gr was the best . As the rifle has a 1 in 9 twist I was scratching my head over that . but it.s nice to know it likes the lighter bullets also ... I'm going to try some actual Sand bags , see if they help .., and change my grip to the same as I do with my medium bores.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
..Everything on the rifle is tight .. A friend shot the rifle and he got a 1" round group . 5 shots . My groups are running less then an inch high x 1.5" - 3" wide .. . I just don,t know what I,m doing wrong ...
And can anyone tellmy why I generally shoot 338s and 375 as well as if not better than I do the 223 and 243 ....

I just went through this with a friend and his rifle. We were at the range shooting groups at 200 yards with our individual rifles. His rifle had been previously reworked and tested to hold under one MOA. We were shooting in little to no wind yet he was stringing badly. His groups were consistently spreading no more than about one inch vertical, yet were consistently spread out several inches horizontal.

I checked the scope mount and found nothing loose so I took the rifle and shot a group myself. The rifle shot a very small and uniform group under 3/4 MOA. Trying to figure out what he was doing wrong to induce the stringing, I found that it was his grip around the wrist of the stock. He was shooting free recoil off a sandbag and using his off hand to clutch a small sandbag at the toe of the stock. The problem was that the stock of his rifle did not fit his long reach which caused him to apply torque on the rifle without him realizing he was doing so. Even when he dry fired the rifle and he thought everything was lined up and he was applying a proper grip, proper cheek weld, and was applying proper pressure on the stock butt; when he relaxed, the rifle moved half the target width off to the side. To fit the stock, he was torquing his wrist almost like Popeye The Sailor twists up his forearm before throwing a punch. This alone acounted for approximately 3 inches of horizontal stringing at 200 yards on a rifle that easily shoots under 3/4 MOA.

He can now alter his hold on the rifle to eliminate the stringing, but the bottom line for him is that the particular stock is a bad fit and needs to be altered. This may or may not apply to you. You may be doing something as simple as canting the rifle to different degrees each shot, you may be dragging wood, or you may be changing the balance and pressure point on the rifle each shot. But clearly it is something you are adding to the equation if someone else can shoot your rifle well.

Good Luck

I have found that trigger control is the main cause of horizontal grouping.A trick I was taught 60 years ago was that when shooting from the bench do not put your thumb over the stock, keep it along the side that your trigger finger is on...jack

The only reason that any of us would be able to shoot a light caliber rifle any better than a big bore is because of how we react to the recoil of the large rifle( flinch).

If your not sinsetive to recoil ( and clearly your not based on your postings over the years)

Then a longer heavier rifle will indeed be more accurate.

The weight of the bigger rifle and the length of the rifle will help resist non uniform stress that you may be applying to the stock.

These two issues may well be related. You might want to take some time next time your at the bench and try to analize what might be going on and what you can do to fix it. I'll bet you will figure it out once you just sit back and take a deep breath and ponder for awhile.