What is the smallest bullet you can effectively use in a 222 for coyotes? I am currently using 50gr Berger MEFs but am concidering loading up some 40-45gr bullets for fun. I have some 53gr TSX loads on order from Conley but that is more for culling and shooting hogs.

Perry

Perry,

I have a Rem 40XBR w/ 20" barrel in a 222 rem amd shoot Nosler 40 grain BT's. Can't remember the exact load off the top of my head, but it will do 3700 fps. The powder used is H4198SC. It will do in a coyote but if it hits shoulder it can blow up and make a mess. A 52 grain Berger hp does some good work also....it a lights out load.

Mike

I must agree with our new arrival (Welcome MSwickard) that the Nosler 40 grain BT with 4198 , or V V 130 would be an awesome combination.

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Nosler 40 grain BT

Does anyone want to share their powder weight and oal numbers for a 40gr BT in .222rem?

I have a Steyr which is very accurate (.3-.4 easily) with various 50gr bullets. I can't seem to do better than 1" with 40gr BT handloads.

Winchester factory 40gr CT BT's will do as well as the 50's but I have been unable to replicate this with 40gr hand loads.

I have been using RL7 and Rem 7 1/2 BR primers.

Thanks

Is a 50gr Ballistic Tip/Vmax going to be any "tougher" than a 40gr BT/Vmax? Will a 50 penetrate a shoulder that a 40 would not?

Perry

Ok, here is my favorite load for the Nosler 40 BT. My loads are well over Hodgdoen's book max of 21.4 grains of H4198sc. The biggest differece between my load and Hodgdons is their OAL is 2.125" and my load is 2.237". I am seating the bullet out further. One other aspect to consider is the chamber on my rifle is a min spec chamber with a 0.250" neck. My brass does not expand as much as the SAAMI chambers, therefore better case life.

So this load is only safe in my rifle and you will need to work up slowly for your rifle.

My rifle is a Rem 40XBR which is a single shot.

222 Rem
Case: Winchester
Primer: Rem 7-1/2 BR
Bullet: Nosler 40 gr BT
Powder: H4198sc
OAL: 2.237 (loaded round)

Max charge is 24 grains but this load will loosen primer pockets after two firings. This load had excellent accuracy @ 3800+, but is to hot.

Pet load: 23.2 grains 3700 FPS Excellent accuracy! Good case life.

I started my work up loads @ 22.5 grains.

Anyone using this data should start 10% below Hodgdons max of 21.4 gr.

Be safe!

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I started my work up loads @ 22.5 grians.

Are you sure about this? Most of my manuals show a MAX charge of 21.4-21.5 grains of H4198 for a 40 gr bullet. Not to mention 3700-3800 fps from a .222 Rem sounds optimistic. 24.5 grains of Benchmark gives me and average velocity of 3261 fps from my Deuce.

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Originally posted by Juggernaut76:

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I started my work up loads @ 22.5 grians.

Are you sure about this? Most of my manuals show a MAX charge of 21.4-21.5 grains of H4198 for a 40 gr bullet. Not to mention 3700-3800 fps from a .222 Rem sounds optimistic. 24.5 grains of Benchmark gives me and average velocity of 3261 fps from my Deuce.

For reasons unknown to me, many manuals list 222 Rem "max" loads at pressures well below what you will see for 221 Fireball or 223 Rem.
Not sure why??

When my 221 Fireball hovers around 3500fps w/40gr pills, using either AA1680 or LilGun, I certainly felt there should be a safe load in the 222 Rem for the 3600-3700 fps range.

Both my Nosler and Speer manuals do infact list 3550-3600 fps loadings with 40 grain pills using max charges of AA 2015BR. The only manuals I have that even list H4198 (most list the IMR variant) give between 3400-3500fps as thier top velocities. As is usually the norm, I've found that even these numbers are a bit optmistic in the real world. In my experience, chronograph velocities are about 75-100 fps lower than those listed in the books. For the record, I'm shooting a relatively new Cooper M21 with a 24" bbl so my results should be a good representation of real-world velocities. Now, I'm not saying Swick isn't getting the speed he says he is, but he's way past pushing the envelope and recommending a starting load that's 1.1 grains above listed max loads is just dumb. He covered his ass by saying it was safe in HIS rifle, but again, we're starting well above maximum. As for the .221 Fireball, a max charge of 17.9 grains of AA1680 should net you 3000 fps (20" bbl), at least according to Sierra's 5th edition.

quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76: As for the .221 Fireball, a max charge of 17.9 grains of AA1680 should net you 3000 fps (20" bbl), at least according to Sierra's 5th edition.

Jug: gotta love the discrepancies among reloading manuals AA's data on the 221 Rem w/40BT starts at 18.4gr, with max listed at 20.4gr. I use 19.5gr under a 40Vmax in two different 221 rifles, w/o issue. Sure is hard to know what to recommend with those kind of variables among manuals.

Re the 222 Rem: AA lists four different loads for the 40BT with speeds above 3500fps, all with very modest pressures. I cannot stress enough the benefit of a chrony, to help correlate what is happening in safe load workup.
So many variables!

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rif...all%20page%20180.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
What is the smallest bullet you can effectively use in a 222 for coyotes? I am currently using 50gr Berger MEFs but am concidering loading up some 40-45gr bullets for fun. I have some 53gr TSX loads on order from Conley but that is more for culling and shooting hogs.

Perry

Since I was sorta hijacking your thread, I went back to your original question...
Another light, but tough, bullet is the Sierra 40gr hp. Used by Federal in their 22-250 load, I have used it in Hornets, 221's and 222's. With Hornet velocities, at modest distances, it was performing more like a FMJ on `coons. It punches thru coyotes even out of my 221 Fireball's, but certainly shows signs of modest expansion.
Might give it a try.

Greg

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Is a 50gr Ballistic Tip/Vmax going to be any "tougher" than a 40gr BT/Vmax? Will a 50 penetrate a shoulder that a 40 would not?

Perry

Perry, my experience on foxes (ours run 10-20lb weight) is that the 50gr V-Max will usually exit on any sort of broadside or shallow quatering shot. Generally don't exit on head on shots. Seem to behave like a decent bullet on deer showing a modest exit wound. I have never skinned one to look at internal damage.

40gr BT rarely if ever exit on foxes. I put that down to a softer bullet and higher velocity.

I have killed about 20 foxes over the past three months. 8 with the 40gr BT's and the rest with the 50gr V-max's.

Scottish guys will tell you the 50gr V-max is a good bullet on Roe deer up to 50lb's.

Those Rem BenchRest primers are equivalent to magnum primers. Try using regular primers when you work up a load to see if they are more accurate.

Hey guys I see someone finally raised an eyebrow. I do know that my loads are way above book. As i pointed out, my seating depth on this load is way long also. I'm seating the bullet out 0.110" more than the book.

I'm also shooting this in a Rem40BR which has a min spec'd chamber and a 0.249-0.250" neck. The cases come out of the chamber after firing to these loads with no resistance. The bolt can be lifted with one finger thru primary and secondary extraction. Case measurements at the web show a sized case @ 0.3745" and a fired case @ 0.3750". So I'm only expanding the case 0.0005". And measurements at the shoulder there is no change.

Now I do realize that if I seated these bullets to what the manual says it wouldn't happen. Too much powder in the case.

One thing to note is if you compare the pressure (CUP) of a 222 Rem and a 223 Rem there is quite a bit of difference. The 222 Rem is typical loaded to lower pressures because it is an older cartridge which has been over time chambered in rifles that can not handle higher pressures. Not so with the 223 Rem. And remember, a 223 is only a longer 222 Rem. Same Case. On average, a 223 Rems max CUP is around 50,000 CUP. Comparing the same bullet weight in a 222 Rem it is barely over 45,500 CUP or lower.

This same senario also holds true for the 6 PPC. Manuals make the 6 PPC look like a horse going to the glue factory. Since I shoot competitive Benchrest and shoot a 6 PPC I know differently. I would say, that BR shooters are getting 300 fps more than what is listed in a book. But a lot has to do with tight neck chambers and quality actions.

I'll have more to post later, but have to run for now.

Swick

quote:

Now, I'm not saying Swick isn't getting the speed he says he is, but he's way past pushing the envelope and recommending a starting load that's 1.1 grains above listed max loads is just dumb. He covered his ass by saying it was safe in HIS rifle, but again, we're starting well above maximum

I started at 22.5 for various reasons. First being that I had shot 21.5 grains of 4198sc w/ 52 grain BR bullets i my rifle. So I adjusted my load accordingly. My mistake, I should have left that info out and I have added to my original post of proper starting loads/per the manual.

Can we also assume that you have a long barreled 40X?

No, my 40XBR has a 20" heavy barrel..It is completely stock from the Custom shop circa 1974.

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Can we also assume that you have a long barreled 40X?

Actually, A buddy of mine in ND told me about this load back in 1994 if memory is correct. He was shooting it in his 40X that has a 27" bbl. He was getting 3900+ fps and brass life was excellent.

However, I really think the ideal barrel length for this combo would be around 23-24".