Well guys, I've decided to add a new rifle to collection. The basics are that the rifle will be in .257 Roberts (my name is Robert...so the cartridge is a must) and will have a full Mannlicher stock (which I just want). What I don't know is which to get. Your input would be much appreciated:

1. Ruger 77 mkII RSI in Stainless, .257 Roberts. Mauser action - which just makes sense to me from a classic perspective. Normal walnut stock, but stainless steel construction. 18" barrel makes it nice and handy, but gives up a bit of velocity. Expected to have traditionally lousy Ruger trigger, but can be replaced and upgraded for $80.

2. Remington Mdl 7 Custom: blued rifle with laminated stock. Like the looks of this rifle better. Comes from the Rem custom shop - but I don't really know what that's worth, if anything. The claim is that the Rem custom shop uses specially bedded custom barrels and has a hand assembled trigger assembly. I have no idea if it's worth it - there's not a single shop around me that has one to play with. Pro: 20" barrel and 6.5# weight. I also like the protected front sight.


(3. CZ 550 - yeah, they make one. But CZ's leave me a bit cold.)

Now here's the kicker: action length. The Remington 7 uses the short action, limiting the cartridge to a max OAL of 2.800.

The Ruger has a shorter bbl at 18", however what I can't determine is what the action length of the ruger M77 mkII is. Is it a 2.800" max COL or a 3.xx" max COL?

If the Ruger offers a longer max COL, that pretty much would offset the velocity loss of having a shorter barrel by allowing a bit more case capacity.

Accuracy: is there any truth the the Remington custom shop using better materials/barrels? Or is it just a bunch of marketing whooo-haaa to drive pricing up?

Aesthetics: The Remington wins. Hands down. Much prettier, blued gun is nicer.

Laminated stock won't warp in crap weather (which this gun will see). Stainless won't rust but the common walnut stock will likely warp.

Final thought: if the Ruger has the same COL max length, I'd likely choose to go with the Remington and get the extra 2" of bbl. (I already have an 18" brush buster in .35 Rem in the safe - so I'm good for short range handy rifles...)

And finally, the kicker. Cost: Ruger = $750 (retail $850). Remington = $1400 (retail $2665!).

I can afford either one - the Remington will sting more in the short term. In either case, I'd likely top it with a Leupold VXII or III scope, 2-7, 2.5-8, and 3-9 come to mind...

Remington vs. Ruger. What say you and WHY?

Remington, because I'm not much of a Ruger fan.

Up front. I think the #7 is too short of action for the 257 Roberts, which is a very fine cartridge IMO. I love the looks of the #7 though. I believe that the custom shop uses different barrels, but I have lost touch with those guys over the years.
20" barrels seem short to me also, especially in a cartridge like a 257. But then I suspect that might be a prejduice on my part as 22" would be acceptable and that is only 2" difference.
Which one would I take??? Between those choices that would have to be your decision.
I would probably go with a different option (longer action than the #7) perhaps still with the Remington Custom shop. If they would make a long action 257 model 700 then that would be my #1 choice period.

no fan of Ruger here and I believe the M7 action is too short.
Neither wins IMO

I strongly suggest you build one on a Mauser '98

I would suggest the older Ruger tang-safety model. Find one in 30-06, have it rebarreled with a 24" barrel and you'll have a nice looking and nice handling rifle that can handle longer ammunition. That Ruger has an adjustable trigger but it isn't a crf, though. They made that rifle in Roberts, with a 22" barrel, but they're hard to find and I have heard complaining about the barrel quality of the older rifles. With a Douglas, or Pac-Nor barrel, you wouldn't have to worry about barrel quality.
My Roberts is a Mexican Mauser, model of 1946, with a 24" Douglas barrel and custom trigger and it shoots a lot better than I can. But if somebody offered a trade for the one I described above ...

Magizine length of the #7 and a 700SA are the same, the action is just a bit shorter in length. Lots has been said about long and short for the Roberts. IMHO if you want a long action go with the 25-06. You should get over 3000fps with a 100gr bullet and a 20"barrel. i had a MDL 7 MS and it was a great little rifle (forced to sell), and would not hesitate to buy one again. They don't use special material, just pick the best components from the lot. Mine was a 6mm rem and with 90gr Barnes I could get .80"groups with no problem. I'm starting a 257bob project on a 700SA and don't feel I'm going to be handicapped.

I have a m7ms in 308 & it is a handy very accurate rifle, everyone should own atleast 1. I have 4 257 Roberts & have had 10 at 1 time or another. There is nothing wrong with using a short action with a 257 but the remington mountain rifle that I had the magazine was fully 2/10" too short for the chamber.If you want a m7ms, I'd call the custom shop & be sure the magazine matches the chamber. I have never owned a Ruger 257 but the tang safety 257's had a horrable repuration for accuracy. My favorite 257 was built by John Lewis on a long action m700 action, Brown precision pounder, 24" #2 Lilja 3 grove barrel, & German Zeiss 3x9. Actually it's my favorite rifle period.

Mine is going to be rem SA, Pacnor #1, 10tw, McM Mountain Rifle w/ Edge teck, and willams bottom metal.

I have (2) M700 Classics in 257 that are great. One of them is the limited run stainless that I have heard the stainless barrel is one of the best .25 out there. Both rifles shoot everything I have put through them under 1 moa and my hand loads shoot one hole.
My understanding of the Model 7 is the barrel is not threaded on but "pushed" in and as a result they are unchangeable should the need arise,???.
It seems the general concensous on this forumn is a Win M70 short action is the way to go for a "perfect" action length for a 257 Roberts. If you could find one with crf and have it rebarrelled that would be a pretty neat rifle.
As far as barrel length and velocity just load up a faster burning powder, easy day.
You will be so pleased with the 257R. They are a dream to shoot and kill medium size game easliy with all the good bullets available. It'll become your go to and not just because you share name sake.

Perry

I bought two tang saftey Ruger .257 varmint rifles in 1972. They both are well under MOA. The one has some where between 6,000 to 8,000 rounds through it and is shot almost every week. The other is under a bed in Grand Junction Colorado and has had less than 200 rounds through it. By today's standards these would be considered light Varmint rifles. A number of varmints killed by this rifle were Mule deer. The point is ; Ruger isn't all bad. roger

The model 7 is threaded, you're thinking of the 710. The 7 came after the 600, but they are basically the same, with minor improvements.

You are talking my favorite deer round here.
But I would have one built. If you want to take a short cut get yourself a Ruger 77MK2RL.
Its a 20 inch barrel Mine shoots real good, and if you want to restock to a manlicher you can do it.
I would not go shorter than 20 inch
The CZ would be good too, you could just buy a CZ full stock and rebarell...tj3006

I agree with building one on a 98 action. That is what I plan to do.

I have a 1910 Mex Mauser at Stu Satterlees right now and was thinking of using it, but I wanted something light, therfore the Rem 700SA and EDGE Tech stock. The Mex will be a 358 Win or 9,3x57.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
The point is ; Ruger isn't all bad. roger

I agree Roger.....they make some very good revolvers!

Remington's custom shop makes a model 7 mannlicher stock rifle but it isnt cataloged in the .257 Bob, give em a call and maybe they can make one just for you, especially at the price you quoted!!!!

Spend $600 for a CZ FS and just have the stock slimmed down to fit and bedded.

Rich
DRSS

Don't be afraid of the Ruger in .257, I bought one for my girlfreind and it is an absolute tack driver. Hers is a Ruger Ultra Light (20" barrel) and shoots 100 grain Sierra bullets with IMR-4064 powder sometimes all three shots touching at 100 yards. I've seen the Ruger Mannlichers and they are a sweet little rifle and I believe an 18.5" barrel.
I vote for the Ruger!

Well, it would appear that the general consensus is to buy a used Mauser action and have a gun custom built. Having never done so, I honestly have no idea where to even start. Less than than, I have no idea who would build such an animal.

The Ruger appears to be the odds on favorite here for a factory built gun: easy to change the barrel as needed.

So, can anyone tell me what the max OAL would be on a Ruger Mauser action?

I just bought a Ruger 77 in 257 last November.
First load out of the barrel shot 9/16" at 100 yards. I like it very much.
Also had built a 257 on a Rem 700 SA that works well too. I prefer a short action over a long one for the 257. YMMV

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Well, it would appear that the general consensus is to buy a used Mauser action and have a gun custom built. Having never done so, I honestly have no idea where to even start. Less than than, I have no idea who would build such an animal.

Building a sporter rifle on a military Mauser, which from the length of the action would be be just about ideal, can be a pretty expensive venture. I'm not saying this is not a good way to go, but you should take a hard look at your budget and potential costs before you start down this route. Even starting with a good, cheap military Mauser action (increasingly rare these days), you'd be surprised how expensive such a project can become, unless you can do some of the work yourself.

If I was to build a .257 Roberts from scratch these days, and I did not mind a few ounces extra weight, I'd probably start out with a M1999 SA (intermediate in length, really) if you can get one out of the factory. In the end, that will come cheaper than going the military Mauser route.

- mike

If you want a stainless laminated mannlicher in 257 Roberts, the easiest way would be to buy a stainless Remington 7, a stainless custom barrel, and a Remington 7 laminated mannlicher stock, if Remington will sell you 1.

I wanted a Remington 7 stainless mannlicher in 260, but the Custom Shop wouldn't go for it. So, I waited patiently until someone had a Remington 7 laminated mannlicher stock for sale, bought it, and mated it with a stainless Remington 7 in 260.

The Ruger 77 RSI in 257 Roberts is a limited, non-cataloged run, so if you want 1, you'd probably better buy it sooner than latter. The Ruger is a long action, so you can set a longer OAL, and despite the shorter 18.5" barrel, I think that the long action 77 RSIs balance better than the short action 77 RSIs.

I have a blued Ruger 77 RSI. It was made by mating a Ruger 77 RL barreled action, with the barrel shortened from 20" to 18.5", and Ruger 77 RSI stock bought for $150+/- on Ebay. It looks and shoots great. Actually, I have the parts to do another, but may opt for 6.5x55 or 7x57 for this 1.

Jeff

Hi Guys,

I appreciate all the help here. Still, I can't quite figure out something:

Are ALL the Rugers in .257 long actions? I've checked Ruger and they don't say anywhere in their literature... Or does Ruger make short-actioned Bobs?

Can someone confirm this?

(I get that Remington only builds on the Short Action - which means limited oal length. On the other hand, I'm not too sure how much of a detriment the short action really is. It sounds like the long action is worth around another 100fps, not much more. The Long Action gets closer to the lands - which might allow for better accuracy...)

remington classics both blued & ss are on long actions. mountain rifles & m7's are on short actions. rugers are on long actions. In a custom there is little no no difference in a long vs short.. The only problem with factory short actions is the possibility of too much free bore.. I'd try a Ruger & see how it does,, Your down side is a few hundred dollars if you decide you don't like a 257.

After having owned several dozen rifles chambered in 257 and 257AI over the years, I can report that my favorite factory configuration is the Remington 700 MR. I would love for Remington to offer a 700 LSS MR in 257!

Jeff

Rifle design is a very personal thing....my 257 Roberts is a spanish mauser action cheaply barreled and imported years ago by Century arms. From my own experience I think you will be happiest in a standard-length action, regardless of the type or make. The flexibility in seating depth and bullet shape will pay off. A blueprint/rebarrel job by a smith you trust dropped into an Accurate Innovations stock might be just the ticket.

I'd make very sure it was what I wanted before going thru the custom shop expense to potentially end up with a too-short action and factory barrel (if factory select...) instead of Lilja, Pac-nor, or whatever you prefer.

In any event, I think you will not regret your choice of caliber. It is a great all-around choice with a surprising following up here as well....

sorry I'm into Remingtons, but in the Mark I Ruger, as far as I have been able to find, all were long action. I was told that it was Bill Ruger's idea. I have looked at a bunch of mark II's and all have been LA, but that is a small sample. The new Hawkeye is to be available in 257 as well. The trigger is supposed to be better; we will see on that. The other thing to look at is throating. Having a long magazine and action is of no value if the throat is short. Rugers generally have long throats. I don't know about the Remingtons.
Good Luck, Great choice of calibers. give the 75 grain Vmax a try too. You will be amazed at what it will do.
Bfly

sorry, poor connection, need correction.
I'm not into Remingtons. They are nice guns, well made and accurate, just not my thing.
Bfly

Well, in the end I decided to go Remington on this. It may or may not be the "perfect decision", but it certainly is the decision that tickles my fancy.

I made a visit to my local super-overpriced gunshop that has everything and checked out a few firearms. I took a look at the CZ, the Ruger, and a Rem.

The CZ: Nice wood, seems to handle well. But the trigger - I just don't like them. The moment I pulled the trigger I knew I wasn't going to be happy. I can't explain it - they just plain feel sloppy to me. And yes, that's the "set-trigger" - even "set" at 1#, the trigger has a left-right motion to it. I like solid, and the CZ just doesn't have that feel to me. The bolt's action was also kinda sloppy, but as I understand it the Mausers all largely feel a bit loose.

The Ruger RSI - hey, they had one in stock. The guns lines turned me off - WAY too linear in the forearm of the stock. The trigger was actually very good - around 4# but absolutely no creep. Very crisp. The wood was bland and the action felt gritty and sloppy.

The Remington: Well, they had an M7MS in .308. The moment I held it, well, it just felt right in my hands. Trigger was decent (heavier than I like, but clean and crisp), the action felt tight and solid, and the stock was proportioned right for my eyes and hands. Thin where it needed to be, thicker where it needed to be.

I really don't know if the Rem is worth the extra money, but it sent the right message to me.

So since my local "has everything" shop won't special order or allow for out of state transfers, I went to my favorite local little guy and plopped my money down for the transfer on the spot.

Gee, it sure is handy when the Little Guy competes right across the street from the big guy! And my little guy's tiny little store was packed.

Yeah, the .257 is going to underperform a bit in the Rem M7MS. So I won't be able to screem a 100gr bullet at 3300fps. I bought this to be a 300 yard deer gun - and it's more than enough gun for that.

For anything bigger I've got a .350mag in safe...

I think I'll top it with a 2.5-8 Leupold VXIII scope on quick detach mounts. One thing I liked about the rifle are the iron sights. I can't see for crap even at 100 yards with 'Irons, but it's nice to have a backup should the scope fail for any odd reason.

Life's good. This present is to ME, from ME. For being the top guy in my company this year.

I deserve good things. My wife tells me so. Damn I married a good one!

Pix in two weeks when I can pick this thing up!

You made an excellent choice, won't be sorry. It will make a fine 300 yrd rifle. Take a look at the 1.75x6. It fits the rifle well. Good luck.

Here's 1 on gunbroker, I have 1 in 308 & love it..

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=66095529

I think you will be suprised at the velocity you can get with a 20 inch barrel.
You mentioned 3300 with 100 grain bullets.
Well that would be awfully fast for a Roberts at any barrel length.
I have used a 100 grain barnes tripple shock over 46 grains of H-414 from my 20 inch ruger and it chronied at 3140 and was a little better than MOA.
For whatever reason the load won't group as well any more so I played around with some other stuff, and I can get about .75 inch with a 120 grain partition over IMR-4350 at 2700.
And I just tried a 110 grain acubond over IMR-4060. 37 grains and 3 went into .30.
I am gonna chroney this weekend.
The Roberts is great !
I am curions about how well it works with the little model 7 action.
...tj3006

every "Custom Shop" Remington I have ever seen was far worse than the average WalMart ADL. That may or may not bother you, but did not want you to think they did anything special to them. A friend o fmine who has had more of them apart and measured them in the process of rebuilding them says the same thing.

Personally, I think SS metal on a Mannlicher stock is an unuslay combination and not to my tastes,. If you are pretty avant guarde, then maybe it would be OK with you. But the 77 is not a Mauser.

The real world difference between short and long magazine Roberts loads is too small to be seen in the field. It looks like a good theory on paper, but falls flat in reality.

How abot this one? .257 Roberts
VZ-24 action. Richard's Microfit laminated stock. Gentry safety. Douglas barrel.



The Mauser actions are natural because of size, feed ramp, mag box are all designed specifically for that size cartridge.

Fast Ed

In actuality the distance to the lands in my M77mk2 is between 2.89 and 2.93" depending on the bullet and being on a long action I could use 3.25 or so. So the perfect fit is an M1999 action with a SA mag box of 3" or an original Mauser for x57's.

Mine has a 22" barrel and shoots just fine.

Fast Ed,
Nice job on the rifle.