There is a new kid on the block. M.L. McPherson and Byrom Smalley have patented he SMc case design concept. Using identical bullets, the 5/35 SMc cartridge gains 300 fps over the 204 Ruger using less powder. The rifle is currently being chambered by the Savage custom shop and others. Brass is supposed to be available too. Lee makes dies. I intend to get a rifle when I save up some dough.

Anyone interested in this cartridge can find info here

I just thought anyone wanting to buy a 204 ruger might want to know ahead of time that there is now a more powerful, more efficient 20 caliber cartridge.

I don't think lack of efficiency has ever been a complaint with the 204.

Gaud, not another one better than the Swift.

When the ammo is as cheap as .223 I might buy one-Ben

When I see someone shooting one besides the guys selling them get the results that these guys advertise, I'd look at it.

Yep, another over-thought out solution to a non-existant problem.
When will we ever learn?

Hugh,

Yes.....I'd heard of Mc's new cartridge case design some time ago. This should prove very interesting!!

When we stop looking, and wondering.....we stop learning.

Friend Of The 17.....and 20
Kevin Gullette

McPherson is an interesting character, and has some interesting ballistics experience under his belt. Good shooter and a clear thinker, always enjoy his thoughts in VH mag.

Dan, VH magazine is where I learned of his work too. I wanted a 204 when they came out, decided not to because reload data was not as good as factory. I want a 5/35 SMc, or a 22/40 SMc but I will have to wait a while for the funds.

I partly put this up to mess with the Two Oh Four True Beliivers, just to show them that there is something better out there.

quote:

Originally posted by hughjass:
.....I partly put this up to mess with the Two Oh Four True Beliivers, just to show them that there is something better out there.

And once you buy the 5/35 there will most likey be "something better out there" shortly thereafter.

quote:

Originally posted by akpls:

And once you buy the 5/35 there will most likey be "something better out there" shortly thereafter.

Probably. The 204 is a nice round, but the wheel was not reinvented. It may be difficult to come up with something substantially better than the 5/35 if the case is truly optimized.

hughjass, I've got data, witnessed and dcumented on the .204 to 4655fps!!! Do I publish it??? NO!!! The Sierras and Hornadys made the trip though!!! .6-.7" and no "vapor trails"!!
Go back to the VARMINT forums and look for my reply about the WSSM's!! Should give you some insight!! GHD

quote:

Originally posted by .223 VARMINT-VENTALATOR:
When the ammo is as cheap as .223 I might buy one-Ben

Exactly...had it been developed on the .223 case it'd been a done deal.....

Which is what the 20 Tactical is.

Groundhog devastation:

What bullet weight are you guys using to get the 4600fps +? We were having a big discussion about the 204 and the 220 Swift, the other day, and guys didn't want to hear we were pushing 50 grainers up to 4300fps with the swift.

Thanks

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
hughjass, I've got data, witnessed and dcumented on the .204 to 4655fps!!! Do I publish it??? NO!!!

The difference is the 5/35 will do this safely. 4655 fps in a 204 has got to be really redlining it. After all, if it was safe, the factories would publish it.

That is another thing about the 5/35. I want to see recomended reloading data and velocities to see if it is for real. Is 4650 fps realistic, or is it just dangerous.

AGNTSA

Tactical .20 is what Hornady/Ruger should have done but they didn't listen.....

IV

When I can go into my local mom and pop gun store and pick one up for under $400. I'll be there. Or...if this thing pans out accuracy wise and big green makes one in their new single shot I'd have to think about it. BTW..I didn't have to think about it long and just got my 3rd 204. May put one up for sale if the new one shoots.

The March April 2006 issue of, Rifle Shooter page 22 -Handloading- Cartridge Efficiency shows the 5MM-35SMc round with a 22-250 and 204 Ruger rounds. Per the artical Savage`s Custom Shop will make a 5mm-35 SMc rifle.

cool tuck. Now I will have to buy that issue.

More information is better.

Cool Tuck nothing. I spent all night looking for that article, in the March April 2005 edition, seeing as March April 2006 (or that edition) isn't HERE yet.

Remember that part of the deal w/ the .204 was to use much lower preasures than have been seen lately (WSM/WSSM - 65,000) and thereby ensure that the barrel life of the .204 was as good as the .222/.223 rounds. I suppose if you stoked it up 65,000 it would have significant improvement in velocity, but who needs more than 4000 fps. 40 gr. boatails have a BC higher than any of the 55 gr. .224 rounds, it shoots as flat & far as any prarie-dog could find useful.

According to an article in Precision Shooting the 204 Ruger's SAAMI pressure is only 57,000 psi. I guess I don't understand the attraction of trying to jack up pressures, going faster and faster, using more powder, burning up barrels at an increased rate, and just generally making excess noise just for the sake of making noise.

Why not just take an '06 case neck it to .20 cal and work with powders that will fill the case, give 5000 fps, and do so at a really mild pressure. Granted you may need a 30" or better barrel but on a varmint gun so what. Sean

P.S. if the '06 doesn't get you there use a .300 Weatherby. Sean

quote:

Originally posted by Beartrack:
Remember that part of the deal w/ the .204 was to use much lower preasures than have been seen lately (WSM/WSSM - 65,000) and thereby ensure that the barrel life of the .204 was as good as the .222/.223 rounds. I suppose if you stoked it up 65,000 it would have significant improvement in velocity, but who needs more than 4000 fps. 40 gr. boatails have a BC higher than any of the 55 gr. .224 rounds, it shoots as flat & far as any prarie-dog could find useful.

The point is, and McPherson demonstrated this in Varminthunter mag, is the 5/35 has a decent performance advantage without the extra barrel heating. He feels that the heating is what causes the damage to the bore, so it should last just as long and have a performance advantage. Barrel heating was the same as with a .223 or .204.

Sean, the 5/35 uses about the same amount of powder as a .204. (I wrote above, that it used less, but after reviewing the articles I see that it uses about the same.) Go ahead with your .20-300 weatherby wildcat if you want.

I have no desire for a 20-300 wildcat. My point was that you could accomplish the same speeds with less pressure if you tried hard enough.

Anyway, I wasn't poking fun at anybodies cartridge choice it was just a thought. And not even mine originally. Though I do agree with it. If using a larger case and keeping the pressures low worked for the British and German cartridges intended for the tropic heat why not use it for your varmint rifle.
Maybe a 22-300 Weatherby loaded to run a 40 gr bullet at 4000 fps or a 55 at 3600-3700 would keep pressures low enough that barrel throats would last longer than 220 Swift and 22-250s are purported to. Who knows, I most definitely don't have the money to do all the experimenting and trying that I'd like to in this life time so I'll just say "what if..." and maybe try a couple that sound reasonable. Sean

I have already talked to a few wildcatters that are pushing a 20 at 5000fps using a 223WSSM case. Problem is, the bullets don't hold together. And, I am not sure 5000fps will do, that 4000 won't do, or 3500 won't do for that matter. When you are covering almost a mile a second, that bullet is really moving!

With apologies to Tuck 2 as he was right after all, I have in my hand the March/April 2006 Rifleshooter magazine that does indeed have an article from M.L. McPherson on cartridge efficiency.