Hi guys.

A question for the .223 shooters out there, I'm thinking of getting a heavy but short barrelled .223 as a light (informal) target rifle, walking varminter type rifle.

My question is before I decide on a barrel chop, how much is the .223 compromised by say a 20" barrel?

I will be putting a suppressor on it so short is good.

I'm particularly interested in shooters of heavy for calibre bullets for targets as I'm thinking of specifying a 1-9 twist.

With thanks in advance,

Amir

I have a 20" Savage Police Carbine. Loads I've chronied pretty close to book. The 223 is not burning a lot of powder so it's pretty much a full burn at 20". IMO it's the perfect length for a 223.

My 21" CZ doesn't seem to give up much at all, but thats just my opinion. Mine is a 1 in 12 twist, and mostly I shoot light bullets with faster powders, so that might make a difference too. If it was me I wouldn't worry about it.

As I'm sure you're aware, barrels vary and it is not unusual to find a shorter barrel yielding higher velocities with the same load than a longer barrel. So comparisons of one barrel to another are only rough indicators, not gospel.

That said, I own several .223's with 23-24 inch barrels, one with a 20-incher, and an AR-15 clone with a 16.25" barrel. The 20 inch seems to register about 100 fps less than the longer barrels, while the 16-incher drops another 75 fps or so. Again, these figures would undoubtedly be different if you took a longer barrel and cut it to the specified lengths, but the figures are likely fairly representative.

By the way, I use a 60-grain Nosler Partition in the 20-inch barrel as my grandson's deer rifle and optimal velocity with this bullet tops out around 2950 fps.

There is no compromise in shortening a 223 to 20", you'll loose maybe 100 fps, but the rifle will be so much handier.

Ghubert, I've had good luck with my 1/9 twist 16" 5.56mm chambered clone, with bullets up to 60 grains.

The m193 (55 grain) loads chronograph about 125 fps under milspec, and the M855 loads (62gr bullet) are running 60 fps under spec.

To date, my attempts with the 69gr Nosler custom comp are disappointing. Accuracy was very good, but velocity was anemic. I think part of the problem was related to the Federal brass I was using. It has a low case capacity, is soft and doesn't grip the primers well. If I try them again with a different brass, I'll tell you how it goes.

A good friend has a 20" DPMS 1/9, .223 heavy barrel. It shoots great group, but I have to back off my .556 loads a full grain or his upper will blow primers with them. This upper almost always clocks right at spec.

The 16" bbl makes for a versitle, handy rig, but, at some point, I'd still like to add a 24" heavy bbl upper for dedicated varmit hunting.

I have a 24 inch bolt rifle as well as a AR-15 with a 14 inch and it doesn't loose more than 100 FPS of so,shooting the same loads.

I have some experience with .223 barrel performance but it's more on the upper end of the barrel lengths.

I had Rem 700 .223 with a 24" barrel and compared it to another Rem 700 with a 26" barrel with an 8" suppressor attached. There are differing opinions on whether the suppressor will aid in the velocity of a round. Anyway I was able to achieve almost identical velocities in those two rifles using all the same components with the exception that the long barrel shooter could not handle the load that worked wonderfully in the shorter barrel. I had to back down the load 1.0g to reduce some pressure signs and at the end of the day they were almost the same velocity after their loads were refined.

As you know, some shorter barrels will be faster than longer barrels with the exact same loading. I had a buddy that found this to be true with a 22" vs. a 26" tube.

What this says to me is that the tolerances at the plant will determine more than anything the velocity that you will achieve. I guess that's why some air gauged barrels sell for more, whether they work or not I don't know.

I'm looking at an AR in the future and trying to decide on a 20" vs. 24" for the combo of self defense and also varmint hunting. Don't know which way to go yet, still studying and learning.

I'm also seriously considering getting an " AR Upper "..

This one seems to be the best priced " Quality Upper ".

Varmint Upper: .233 20" , 1/7 Twist: $ 595.00
http://www.whiteoakarmament.co...17831&cat=261&page=1


Photo Example: Not the same twist & Barrel length.

PAPI

White oak makes great stuff, but personally I'd go with an SDM or SPR barrel, and prefer an 18" length. The 20" varmint barrels are IMHO too nose heavy, and you don't give up any accuracy going to a quality lighter barrel. Go with a mid length gas tube, free floated.

Shooting the same loads in an 18 1/2" Remington Model Seven and a 24" Remington M-700 I'm seeing about 175 fps difference on the chronograph.

Ghubert, the 5.56 x 45 was develped to operate in 20" barrels to begin with. It's pretty effective all the way down to 14" 10" is still a good man-killer at reasonable ranges. I got a 16" because 14" requires an NFA $200 stamp here in the States. My reasoning was the same as yours; I wanted a removable supressor mounted and still have a handy rifle.

Papi: Whiteoak has a very good reputation.
I wouldn't go with a 1/7 twist unless you intended to shoot bullets over 69gr in weight.

Thank you chaps.

I can go as low as 12" until the law gets interested but from the replies I think a 20" barrel would be the best length for what I've got planned.

The moderator will be this one, which at 6" isn't too bad at all.

quote:

Papi: Whiteoak has a very good reputation.
I wouldn't go with a 1/7 twist unless you intended to shoot bullets over 69gr in weight.

I have used an " Armalite M15 A2 National Match with 1/8 Twist " for several years (3 position Service Rifle).

I've been wanting to get myself a " Flat Top Upper " to mount a scope.. My eye's aren't much use anymore,... using Iron Sights

PAPI

Just an additional " FYI " for anyone interested ( I've done alot of research )..

Here's another option to consider, for anyone thinking of a " Faster Twist (Heavy/Longer ! Bullets) " for Long Range Shooting.

18464 - 223 REM - 1 in 7" - 26 " Barrel

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12VLP%20DBM

However, the barrel might be a bit tooo long for some... ?

PAPI

I just read the below thread:

quote:

" I shot some 70gr TSX SSA out of my 2 ARs:

20" Colt 1:7 = 2939fps ave
16" Colt 1:7 = 2804fps ave

measured using Prochrono at 15'
It shoots ~2MOA out of both rifles.
Very good load.... SOSNBA "
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3...of_a_16_barrel_.html

PAPI