All,

Do factory chambered 6mm Remington rifles
come on short actions or long actions? I ask
because I am thinking of doing a barrel
replacement on a Savage short action, and
was thinking I would go with the
6mm Remington. I know some Remington 600
series rifles came in 6mm Remington, and I
believe these were short action rifles. Since
I already own a .25-06 Rem., which I would
use for deer, over the 6mm Rem. it is doubtful
that I would be using the 6mm Remington
for anything larger than coyotes, and would
basically build this rifle for long range varmints.
So I will be looking at lighter bullets, in the
55 gr. to 75 gr. range, for load development.

Thanks in advance for any info you may provide.

Squeeze

As far as I know, short action...

My Stevens(Savage) short action has a magazine length just a hair over 3". The 6mm(.244) has an Oal less than that. I guess you are in fat city. roger

Thanks Roger. I like when I am in "Fat City"
Since the longest COL, I have found in my
quick scan of the load data, is 2.95", then
I see no issues with seating even the largest
6mm bullets. As for seating to the lands,
I can always shoot single shot, if I feel the
need to do that. For most rifles, I usually
can find a seating depth, that has a jump, but
still hits a point where the harmonics, have
the barrel at a min or max in the wave, and
have it fit in the magazine.

As a secondary question, at about what point in
bullet weight(actually length), will an 1:10 twist
barrel start to have stabilization issues. I realize
there is more to this than just bullet length, like
velocity, but is there a general(rule of thumb)
point where I can expect instability? If I ever
did use this as a deer rifle, I would be loading
85 gr. Barnes TSX bullets, and without doing the
math, I am going to guess this would stabilze
in a 1:10 twist, given I would load to around 3000
to 3100 fps MV.


Thanks again,
Squeeze

I've been pondering the same things. From what I've gathered, short action will be ok for the small varmit rounds, but need the long action for the longer match type bullets. I have read that the 1 / 10 twist will stabilize under 100 grains and can be iffy with the hornady amax ( I believe it was 105 gr), and the heavy sierras (107gr) probably won't stabilize.

To be honest, I was looking for a long range rig so I was only considering the heavy bullets and can't be much help on the lighter. You might want to take a look at the v-max, I can't remember the exact grain, but think its 87 gr. It has an amazing ballistic coefficient for a varmint bullet.

With the 600 action seating bullets out can be a problem. Sometimes if you seat them long enough (long throat) you may need to take the bolt out to unchamber an unfired round. But with the 700 that isn't a problem with the short action.

Well, having built a couple.. I'd say short action if you are never going to be shooting bullets over 65 or maybe 70 grains with it, go with a short action...

otherwise, just build a 243 AI for that case capacity...

When going to a long action, the cartridge becomes a total different animal... as long as you chamber it to take bullets seated to magazine length.....that alone is the key reason for the long action...

I'd also recommend a one in 8 twist, or even a one in 7 or 7.5.. for some of the long bullets that are available...

With a long action, I can obtain velocities at safe pressures, that I would not obtain safely in a short action...

Case in point....

Berger 115 grain match bullets, 46 grains of Reloader 19, for an MV of 3250 fps...

Long seated 75 grain Hornady HPs for varminting... 47.5 grains of H 414 for an MV of 3700 fps... you can walk that higher if you want to with a long action... but since that load gives me one hole groups.. and is the most accurate of ANY load for ANY rifle I own... I am happy right there.....

If it was a short action, I'd stick with the 243.. as the 6mm will offer you nothing extra, as you have to seat the bullet too deeply in the case to fit the action....

good luck,
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by squeeze:
All,

Do factory chambered 6mm Remington rifles
come on short actions or long actions? I ask
because I am thinking of doing a barrel
replacement on a Savage short action, and
was thinking I would go with the
6mm Remington. I know some Remington 600
series rifles came in 6mm Remington, and I
believe these were short action rifles. Since
I already own a .25-06 Rem., which I would
use for deer, over the 6mm Rem. it is doubtful
that I would be using the 6mm Remington
for anything larger than coyotes, and would
basically build this rifle for long range varmints.
So I will be looking at lighter bullets, in the
55 gr. to 75 gr. range, for load development.

Thanks in advance for any info you may provide.

Squeeze

While you're at it, go with the ACKLEY version!!! The dies aren't that much more expensive, and you'll love the brass life and increase in performance!!! Throat life is "supposed" to be much better as well with the 6mm Ackley Rem.

Your "short" Savage, with a magazine of 3"+, is fully adequate for a 6mm Remington with spitzers as heavy as 100 grains. I can't say about the heavier "specialty" bullets. A 1-10" twist is also fully adequate for spitzers of up to 100 or even 105 grains, but since your interest is in the lighter varmint-weight bullets, I'd just stick with the 1-10.

As woodsracer suggests, the 6mm AI has no downsides other than more expensive reloading dies. It will give you a few extra FPS (which you really don't need), but the case is neat looking, resists stretching (but does nothing, contrary to myth, in regard to throat erosion.)

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

(but does nothing, contrary to myth, in regard to throat erosion.)

I am not one to start an argument (nor am I trying to), but there were several different articles in Precision Shooting in regards to different shoulder angles and neck lengths vs. throat erosion and they tended to disagree with your comment.

No offense intended.

None taken.

The myth about shoulder angle having an effect on throat erosion has been around for decades, and has always proven to be just that, a myth. It is routinely resurected by newbies from time to time based on the theory that a sloped shoulder will "funnel the burning powder down the bore" and a sharp shoulder will "hold it back in the case while it burns". Nonsense. While I haven't read the artical(s) you refer to, I have seen dozens like them that use questionable data and unscientific comparisons to support a pre-concieved conclusion.

Throat erosion is proportional to heat and duration, ie., to the amount of powder in relation to the bore size (which influeces the duration of flame), combined with the type of powder and pressure (which influences the heat). Shoulder angle has no influence on either heat or duration of flame.

My grandfather had a new 1957 Ford that had an overheating problem. The mechanics (shade tree certified), after failing to correct the problem several times, finally installed smaller fittings and a smaller radiator return hose. Their theory was that "the water was circulating too fast to pick up the engine heat". That modification (along with disconnecting the heat gage) solved the problem. Grandfather was soon driving a 1958 Dodge.

These observations and opinions notwithstanding, I still believe that the AI version of the .244/6mm is an excellent cartridge and is worthwhile if chambering a barrel from scratch. I don't think I'd likely go to the trouble to rechamber an existing .244/6mm for the difference, however.

I have two Remington 700 Varmint Specials & they are made on a short action. It is my understanding that you could build one on either a long or short action. Hornady recommends a 1:9" or faster for their 105gr A-max, I think that is right. When Remington changed from the 244 to 6mm designation, they changed the twist rate to 1:9".

the only 6mm rem i have seen in a Rem was the Model 7 or the 700 VLS which both are short action. I own a model 7 6mm and with the 6mm being a little longer than most SA loads, have had no problem with feeding or anything else. more than half of the whitetails i have killed has been with this 6mm, shooting factory hornady 100 BTSPs.