Buddy of mine is trying to tell me the 243 is better than a 6mm, can some of you guys tell me why you think it's better, or maybe not? Jay

In reality the 6MM is better than the .243. The neck is longer, which is better for seating bullets, holds more powder, the .243 is the most popular, more rifles chambered for it and the .243 brass is easier to get.

Not alot of difference, but yes the 6mm has an edge especially if you reload.

In reality the .243 is much easier to find ammo for in stores like Walmart, mom n pop stores in rural towns, etc.

I've had a 6mm Rem for years and it's poison on coyote, etc with 70gr Sierra BTHP

I handload all of my ammo.

I own 6 different 243s, and only one 6mm Remington....

For an handloader, the 6mm Remington can run circles around a 243 in my book... especially if the 6mm Rem is on a LONG action....Mine has a 1 in 7 twist and I shoot anything from 55 grain ballistic tips to 115 grain Berger Match bullets with it and it is a tack driver....

Cheers
seafire

quote:

especially if the 6mm Rem is on a LONG action....

I think this is the critical difference.....the .243 is a true short action cartridge. That and the far greater ammo availibility.....just try finding 6MM ammo most places!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
Buddy of mine is trying to tell me the 243 is better than a 6mm, can some of you guys tell me why you think it's better, or maybe not? Jay

In the simplest of terms: HE'S WRONG.

The .243 is just more popular. Not better. Maybe that is what he meant.

The 6mm Rem and 243 Win were both introduced at around the same time.

At this point in history, many gun writers, but more-so gun magazines, were in Winchester's back pocket.
Therefore, the 6mm has always been looked down upon by the more popular, if inferior 243.

Had this not happened, it is my opinion that the 243 would hardly exist today.

-Spencer

quote:

At this point in history, many gun writers, but more-so gun magazines, were in Winchester's back pocket.
Therefore, the 6mm has always been looked down upon by the more popular, if inferior 243.

Had this not happened, it is my opinion that the 243 would hardly exist today.

-Spencer

I don't agree. The 243 came out with heavier bullets and a faster twist. The 244 came out with a 90 gr bullet as it's heaviest and a slower 1-12" twist. Thus the 243 had the perception of being more suitable for deer hunting.

Most of all the 243 was available in the fine and handy M 70 Featherweight and the 244 came out in a heavy clunker with a 26" barrel.

There was no contest as each will do the same thing. We did not need two cartridges in 6mm. You can only carry one at a time. So the 244 died.

Sure the current 6mm Rem with a 1-9" twist might be a little better cartridge but it's over. The 243 rules.

I have owned and shot both not much differace

But the 6mm is a better designed cartridge!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

especially if the 6mm Rem is on a LONG action....

I think this is the critical difference.....the .243 is a true short action cartridge. That and the far greater ammo availibility.....just try finding 6MM ammo most places!!

VapoDog:

Ever since I started handloading... as long as I can get brass via Midway or Graf's I could care LESS what is available on the shelves at Walmart/Kmart etc....That is why I stared handloading, to get what I want! NOT to save money etc... I have done anything but that!

I think the 6mm Remington is a lot better cartridge than the 243 is, when the Remington is on a long action... However that doesn't mean I think the 243 has any flies on it! That is why I own 6 of them....I just look at the 6mm Rem as a SOUPED up 243....

cheers
seafire

What I have read on this subject is that Winchester & Remington both introduced their cartridges at around the same time. As mentioned by Savage 99 their rifles were released with different twist rates. Remington's 6mm was originally named the 244. It did not have a twist rate that would stabilze the heavier bullets available in this caliber, Winchester's rifle would. The shooting public viewed the 243 as being a more versatile round, as it could be used to hunt varmints with the lighter bullets & bigger game with the heavier ones. Remington corrected this problem & reintroduced the 244 as the 6mm Remington. By this time the 243 had already established it presence & the 6mm has not as of yet been able to catch up with it, but I understand it is gaining.
I own rifles in both calibers & intend to compare on my own. By looking at different reloading manuals & tend to agree that for the hand loader the 6mm may be the better of the two, but the 243 has the popularity contest won hands down.

the 243 is truly a short action cartridge and is more popular. the 6 rem is a bigger case so a reloader in a long or intermediate action should be able to get better performance especially with longer bullets. i also remember reading that the turbulance point for the 243 is in the barrel and causes erosion but in the 6 it is still in the brass case leading to better barrel life. i've had both and the 257 roberts is a better cartridge for my use

As stated by others, the 6mm is better. However, Remington has never been behind their own round. Even today, take a look at the remingtion site you find the following current production guns for 243:
• Model 700™ BDL™
• Model 700™ CDL™
• Model 700™ CDL™ LH
• Model 700™ LSS
• Model 700™ SPS™
• Model 700™ SPS™ DM
• Model 700™ SPS™ Stainless
• Model 700™ SPS™ Youth
• Model 700™ VLS
• Model 7400™
• Model 7400™ Synthetic
• Model 7600™
• Model 7600™ Synthetic
• Model Seven™ LS
• Model Seven™ SS
• Model Seven™ Youth Synthetic

And for the 6mm:
• Model 700™ VLS

Kind of sad....

The 6mm rem has one huge advantage over the 243. It fits and feeds perfectlyfrom a military length mauser.

IMHO it is THE cartridge for roe stalking in the UK.

quote:

As stated by others, the 6mm is better. However, Remington has never been behind their own round. Even today, take a look at the remingtion site you find the following current production guns for 243:
• Model 700™ BDL™
• Model 700™ CDL™
• Model 700™ CDL™ LH
• Model 700™ LSS
• Model 700™ SPS™
• Model 700™ SPS™ DM
• Model 700™ SPS™ Stainless
• Model 700™ SPS™ Youth
• Model 700™ VLS
• Model 7400™
• Model 7400™ Synthetic
• Model 7600™
• Model 7600™ Synthetic
• Model Seven™ LS
• Model Seven™ SS
• Model Seven™ Youth Synthetic

And for the 6mm:
• Model 700™ VLS

It is sad

But is too late for them to correct it now.
It got to much negative publicty it was a better design.Even as a .244 it was to late.
And I am a Winchester man my self.

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:

quote:

As stated by others, the 6mm is better. However, Remington has never been behind their own round. Even today, take a look at the remingtion site you find the following current production guns for 243:
• Model 700™ BDL™
• Model 700™ CDL™
• Model 700™ CDL™ LH
• Model 700™ LSS
• Model 700™ SPS™
• Model 700™ SPS™ DM
• Model 700™ SPS™ Stainless
• Model 700™ SPS™ Youth
• Model 700™ VLS
• Model 7400™
• Model 7400™ Synthetic
• Model 7600™
• Model 7600™ Synthetic
• Model Seven™ LS
• Model Seven™ SS
• Model Seven™ Youth Synthetic

And for the 6mm:
• Model 700™ VLS

It is sad

But is too late for them to correct it now.
It got to much negative publicty it was a better design.Even as a .244 it was to late.
And I am a Winchester man my self.

After I started reloading, I also started getting rifles rebarreled to the cartridges I really wanted......I could almost care less what the factories are chambering.....I wish they would just sell actions for a cheap price!

A 6mm Rem in a long action featherweight with a factory Laminated stock from the 1980s, 24 inch barrel, or in a Model 70 Long Action in the regular full sized Model 70, with a 26 inch barrel......

Or a heavy, heavy barrel on a Mauser action with a 1 in 8 or 7 twist and a 30 inch barrel.....

Those are my plans for rebarreling a couple of other rifles to 6mm Rem!

Cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
Buddy of mine is trying to tell me the 243 is better than a 6mm, can some of you guys tell me why you think it's better, or maybe not? Jay

Aah, the power of the press. This is the only reason the Winchester did, and the Remington didn't. Then there was the name change game and bullet/twist rate change too, remember the 244 Remington?
When all is said and done, the Winchester number was the clear winner, and the Remington was a distant second. IMO there are two things that have kept the Remington with us: those in the know who handload, and the heavy barreled M77 from Ruger. If Remington had put the 6m/m in something other than an ugly fence post of a rifle, I think the 6m/m race would have been much closer. Anyway, it all serves as a textbook case of what not to do.

I don't reload.
More popular = Readily available in in great variety and that's better for me.
What Vapodog said.

At the time of the 25-303 being fazed out as the most popular Pro Roo shooting Cart In AUZ the 243 gained a lot of ground .With both Pros & sporting shooters Mainly due to Every Gun scribe over here boasting the 243's capibilities .I got hold of a 788 rem at the right price in l/h action in 6mm & man I loved that cartridge Problem was it died a untimely death due to the bad publisity given to it ! in favor of the 243

It was all about marketing. Winchester marketed the .243 with a different twist rate from the factory to stabilize a heavier bullet, and marketed it as a light-game to deer round.

Remington originally marketed their .260 as a varmit to light-game round and didn't put the twist in to properly stabilize a heavier bullet, and the rest is history.

Winchester got the upper hand in people's minds and in all the gun magazines, and the .260 Remington was relagated to obsolescence. Remington could have just as easily done the same with their marketing strategy, but they just didn't. Winchester's marketing department is what made their .243 what it is today. Plain and simple.

It's a true tragedy. The .260 Rem is much better overall and ESPECIALLY in a custom gun or barrel, and can be reloaded to shoot much nicer than the .243.

I've been a long time 243 and 6 mm user. I agree that the 6mm Rem is the better one. I disagree that a long action has any merit for the 6mm Rem. or the 257 roberts for that matter. Perhaps if you want to shoot VLD bullets. The nice thing about heavy bullets is that although they take up more powder space they require less of it too.

Ben......"the .260 is relegated to obsolescence".....is that what you're saying? WRONG!!! The .260 is finding more favor everday!! But that wasn't the initial starting point of this thread!! It was .243vs6mm!!
Now back to the original! As has already been posted the .244 Remington had a slow twist(1-12) and was hell on wheels as far as a varmint chambering was concerned with bullets up to 80 grains or so! The .243WIN with it's 1-9 twist could handle the light bullets and the 100's or the 105's ths making it seem acceptable to deer hunters!!....accurracy difference between the two.....non-existant!! Efectiveness on game difference......non-existant!!! Marketing of the two.....immense difference!!!! And as we have all seen before and heard before, "HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF"!!! ie.....SAUM's vs WSM's!!! If Remington had released the SAUM's ahead of the WSM's then the talk of obsolescence would be slanted toward the WSM's instead of the SAUM's!!! They had the R&D done!!! But NO....."we need to release the RUM's first!!!! So they did!!! And now the the SAUM's are withering except for the few folks who have enough reloading savvy and understanding of case design and ballistics to still use them!!! It's all about marketing in this gun production business!!! Y'all mentioned the number of rifles being chambered in 6mmREMINGTON...listed the catalog data and such.......How about the most usable chambering ever from varmints to deer and probably a little bigger......the 25-06 REMINGTON!!!! Look up and see what they offer that one in!!!! GHD

I hope the .260 is making something of a comeback and "finding more favor everyday" ...

It's a good round, and I hope it finds more of a calling. All I was saying was that historically, it was the .243 that went on to fame and glory and the .260 that quietly faded into the back corner somewhere.

If folks are waking up now and seeing what it can do, then that's fabulous.

You can't always compare these two fine cartridges unless all things are made equal. I have a Savage 110 in .243Win. It's a sporter and quite accurate for one, but it has troubles with 100gr. ammo due to the 1 in 10" twist. I also own a newer Remiungton VLS in 6mm Rem. that will shoot circles around the .243Win. but it weighs about 10lbs. and is a much better platform off the bench especially since it has a heavy barrel. From a carry in the field point of view I prefer the .243Win. by far, but for accuracy it's no contest in favor of the 6mm Rem. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

quote:

Originally posted by Ben589:
I hope the .260 is making something of a comeback and "finding more favor everyday" ...

It's a good round, and I hope it finds more of a calling. All I was saying was that historically, it was the .243 that went on to fame and glory and the .260 that quietly faded into the back corner somewhere.

If folks are waking up now and seeing what it can do, then that's fabulous.

Ben. The .260 Remington is not the 6mm Remington. You're a bit confustigated here. The 6mm is a .243 caliber and the 260 is a .264 caliber bullet. Big difference.

I've only been shootin a 6mm Rem. for a little while now, but have had several .243s. Mine is on a Ruger #1B with a 26" barrel and it seems to reach out and touch something. Still in the peliminary load work up but I like it.
Paul B.

Guys ... my brain must have been screwy the last couple posts I made here...

I was talking about (and thinking about in my mind) the 6mm - I have no idea why I kept typing it wrong.

Please pardon my faux pas. If you read my posts and actually replace the 6mm in it's place - then my posts make a lot more sense.

Well I have owned both, 6 mil and 243 win. Around here the 6mil has been very popular for the last 25 or 30 years! So much so that you would be hard pressed to find a 24 cal. that’s not a 6 mil. Rem.

Ammunition is abundant and about as common as any other caliber. This may just be a Southern thing because Big Game Rifle hunting didn’t really start in much of the south till the mid to late 70’s and by that time no one knew what a 244 was or ever heard of one. Seems the name change and twist rate change did the trick in Dixie for Remington.

Back to the merits of the 6mil over the 243.

The 6mil is a much better round to reload because there is a little more case capacity, better shoulder angle, more neck length and longer case life. Accuracy has always been about the same in general except the best shooter I have are in 6mil, probably because the case and seating depth is more versatile.

243 on the other hand doesn’t have a problem fitting into the magazine box on short action guns like a necked out 6 mil. Also the 243 seems to feed better in Semi-Auto Rifles.

Take you pick! Both are fine Rifles and either will do the trick as well as the other on the business end.

quote:

Originally posted by Freebird_AL:

Also the 243 seems to feed better in Semi-Auto Rifles.

Al, My dad and I both had 6mms in 742 and 7400 respectively, never had a jam of any kind with either. So, thats a moot point. Thanks for the reply.

I printed out most of these replies and had my buddy read them, we'll see what he has to say today about it. Jay

quote:

But the 6mm is a better designed cartridge!

That's because it is the 7X57 necked down to 6mm.

Essentialy a 6X57.

The 7X57 and 8X57 are arguably two of the best catridge designs ever, so why not round it out with a 6X57?

quote:

Originally posted by Ben589:
Guys ... my brain must have been screwy the last couple posts I made here...

I was talking about (and thinking about in my mind) the 6mm - I have no idea why I kept typing it wrong.

Please pardon my faux pas. If you read my posts and actually replace the 6mm in it's place - then my posts make a lot more sense.

That's OK Ben. We knew what you meant. We all have brain farts now and then, especially me.

The .244Rem and the Win.243 both came out in 1955. As has been mentioned because the twist was wrong for heavier bullets,so the .243 left the .244 in the starting gate. Remington did not change the twist and the name to 6MM Rem until 1963. Had the .243 not had this 8 year headstart,who knows? The 6MM Rem does have an edge---not earth shattering but an edge.

This kinda says it all, doesn't it?


On balance, the 6mm Remington is a better cartridge than either the .243 Winchester or the .240 Weatherby. It doesn't deserve to die. That's more than my opinion. It's a ballistic fact, and it's buttressed by authority. The godfather of the .243 Winchester and the 6mm Remington told me so. Twenty-five years ago, when I first came down with a yen for a .24-caliber, dual-purpose rifle, I asked Warren Page what I should buy. There was no hesitation. "Buy a 6mm Remington," he said. In his opinion it was a better cartridge. In matters having to do with rifles and cartridges, Warren was never shy and almost never wrong. I still reckon he knew whereof he spoke. G. A. Sitton

I've got a plain-Jane Ruger 77R in 6mm on layaway as we speak. Will install a new trigger and mount a Leupold VariX-II 3x9 that I have lying around when it comes home. It will be my "walking rifle". I used to have a Ruger #1B in 6mm and I foolishly let it go. Had a new Remington 700BDL in .243, never again (sloppy workmanship, wart on bolt, rough barrel....typical new Remington). As stated so many times before, the 6mm is a better cartridge for a variety of reasons. For a "dual-purpose" cartridge, I can think of none better than a 6mm Remington.

Blackhawk1, I just acquired a 700bdl in .243 and just read your comments about the Remington rifles. Is this common? I've been having difficulty getting better than 1.5" groups with 70gr Nosler BalTips. How can I tell if I'm wasting my time with this gun/barrel?

Man, I thought this thread was dead.
Mike, What are you using for powder? The 70grainers like H4895, 40 is the max and probably the most accurate, according to my 243 buddy, work up, of course. I had no problem getting 1/2" groups with 80gr. BTs in my 6mm.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with Remington rifles, once in awhile you'll get a lemon. How many shots does your 243 have through it? Barrel might be shot out, my 6mm has over 1000 shots and still shoots in the 3s. Jay

Comparing the 243 Winchester to the 6mm Rem.is like comparing:

222 Rem to 223 Rem
or
308 Win to 30-06 Sprg.

The larger cartridge has a slight edge, but the smaller one in most cases will do anything that the larger one will!

The general consensus has been stated that neither cartridge is better, just more popular, or more common!

quote:

Originally posted by MikeMichalski:
Blackhawk1, I just acquired a 700bdl in .243 and just read your comments about the Remington rifles. Is this common? I've been having difficulty getting better than 1.5" groups with 70gr Nosler BalTips. How can I tell if I'm wasting my time with this gun/barrel?

The 700 BDL I had only shot well with one load, factory Winchester 80gr Power Points. It would group consistently around 1 MOA, but not with anything else. Barrel was the greatest coppper collector seen to date. I had to send the bolt back to Remington because of a "casting flaw" whereas they did remove the flaw and reblue for free. This one may have been a lemon, but my father's BDL in .308 is a much higher quality rifle, and it's over 20 years old.

Ruger 77s are a hit and miss proposition when it comes to accuracy so I'm told. The one I'm getting in 6mm is a new one (with barrels done in-house vice out-sourced). Hopefully it will be a better rifle and shoot heavy for caliber bullets well.

Jay Gorski: I have several 243's and a couple of 6mm Remingtons AND a 6mm Remington Ackley Improved - none of them compare in any way shape or form performance wise with my 240 Weatherby!
I have a full custom 27 1/2" Hart heavy barrelled 240 Weatherby built on a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 action. It is one of the most accurate and safest Rifles I have ever owned!
I have killed Mule Deer, Antelope, Whitetailed Deer, Coyotes, Badgers, Rock Chucks and Prairie Dogs with it!
For several years it was my main go to Antelope Rifle and its performance in that regards was simply awesome! I killed several Antelope at and just beyond 400 yards range with it and the speedy bullets fly very flat and the wind does not have much time to work on them!
Again after decades of use with the others the 240 Weatherby is number one in my book!
Todays new powders makes the 240 Weatherby just an outstanding long range Deer and Antelope round and/or a sensational long range Varminter!
And, I might add, the 6mm Remington of course does outperform the 243 Winchester - as much as I admire and use my 243's the 6mm Remington is simply a better performer.
Long live the 6's!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Mike, Have you tried VARGET behind the 70 BT's in your rifle? If not then I would give it a try! 40-42 grains is the range most loading manuals suggest and I have seen at least 4 different rifles in the past 18 months chambered in .243Win(all Remingtons by the way!) that thrived on 41 grains of Varget, Federal 210MATCH primer, bullet seated 15/000 of the lands!!! Try it and let us know! GHD

quote:

The 243 is more popular, but, Is the 243 better than the 6mmRem.?

NOPE!! Quite the other way around, actually!!