Need help.

I have a 700 VLS 22-250 that I am not happy with, thinking real hard on a new barrel.

First is caliber, believe I would like to use a 6mm.
Now which one 6mmPPC, 6mmBR or a 6-284.

Of course I am looking for speed and the Hodgdon manual list for an 80gr. pill around 3650 in the 6-284. But how accurate is it, since this would be new barrel and ream job. I am guessing pretty good.

But with all the reading I have done. All or most of the benchrest records are held by the 6mmPPC it is as they say inherently more accurate??

And the 6mmBR is the American version of the PPC with slightly more boiler room, 80 gr. @ 3150.

So we have the PPC supposedly the most accurate at 2900, and it's twin the BR at 3150. Then we have the 6-284 at 3650, 500 fps faster than the BR per Hodgdon.

500 fps is a lot of difference, but how accurate is it. Please if you have one let me know.

Okay, the 700VLS will get a new barrel of the same weight or slightly less, 26inches, jewel trigger, action bedded, new lug, firing pin and springs.
Can someone recomend a good smith. I live in North Carolina.

Has anyone used the Lost River bullets J36 in any calliber? Yes I know they are expensive and it looks like you have to use special twist rates for most of their bullets. I don't want to have a gun that likes only one bullet and then I don't like the bullet. And I do plan on ordering some bullets and using them in my other guns first.

Last, I think, on lapping the scope mounts. What happens if you don't lap, mount the scope, then un-mount it and re-assemble after lapping, is the tube bent or does it return in the now straight mounts, one would think so but???

I guess what I am looking for is an ultra-accurate, approching benchrest standards, in a light recoiling 10lb hunting rifle.

For the record I currently own a 6-284 in a TC Encore shooting 95 BT's at 2900. So I know all about the forming process for this round, I also have a 280 rem in a 7lb gun that kicks like hell and a 7STW in a Ruger #1K stainless/Laminate that has less felt recoil than the 280.

Also, if the 6-284 is the pick was looking at Lilja 3 groove stainless to slow throat erosion. Of course any input on barrels would be nice.

Thanks

Wayne

I am not sure where McCleansville is but if you are in North Carolina then you are not to far from some of the better smiths. Check out this sight www.tooleyrifles.com Dave Tooley lives in Gastonia, NC. When I was in gunsmithing school in Troy (NC) one of the other students had a 6-284 built by Mr. Tooley. What a Shooter that rifle was. Also, look at this sight www.scopeusout.com Bill Shehane is from my understanding a very fine benchrest shooter. A phone conversation with him will be time well spent. Also, if you are not in too awful much of a hurry for this rifle to be built you could wait and attend the Hickory Groundhog and Egg Shoot. Take your time with this rifle and make sure everything turns out the way you want it. Talk to the competitors at the shoot and see who built who's guns. Sean

Montana:

"I guess what I am looking for is an ultra-accurate, approching benchrest standards, in a light recoiling 10lb hunting rifle."

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What does "ultra accurate" mean to you? If you check out the reloading pages on this site, you'll see data and group sizes for a 6-284 and a 6-BR. They were loaded and shot by the same folks. These were not hunting rifles (10 lb) but probably closer to 12-14 lb.

The majority of groups with the 6-284 are in the 4's to the 6's.

The majority of the groups with the BR are in the 2's to the 4's

Check out the data, and choose what appeals to you. BTW don't just scroll down the data and pick the smallest group and decide that's what the cartridge will do for you. Look at the aggregate.

JimF

Montana, Pick the 6MM PPC it is the most accurate cartridge in the world. Have one on a 700 vls and it was done by a great benchrest smith in AL. It will shoot regularly less than 3/4" group at 200 yards with a 66 grain custom bullet at 3450 fps with a 1-14 twist 20.5" barrel and a 36T weaver scope. Weights 10.5 lbs. Good Luck

I'm not sure what you are looking for. If you want speed, it sounds like you are looking for a super accurate varmit rifle. And you want to reach with it.
The PPC, and BR rounds were designed for bench rest shooters. The 6/284 is intended for hunting.
Accurate ? Big Stick's got a .25/284 that shoots in the .2's and the .3's. Few quality bullets available for that one. Heck, my 7 lb. 2 oz. Mtn. Rifle will throw groups in the .4's.
His "gunsmith" is the same as mine. Pac-Nor Barreling.
More important than the difference between .2's and .4's might be wind drift. The faster it gets there, the less it drifts. And the better it expands. And, of course, you could go with the heavier match bullets to off set the wind problem.
I'd say if you wish to head shoot p-dogs at 200-250 yds, get a small 6 mm. Probably the BR case because they are cheaper. If you want to reach 300 plus yards, go with a 6/284. E

Most of your question really seems to boil down to a lack fo definition on your part.

How far away do you intend to shoot? Be honest. If your normal shooting distance is 300 yards with a small percentage being out past that, don't be thinking of 500 yards+.

How important is barrel life to you? Are you willing to accept a barrel life of less than 1000 rounds after spending all that money and waiting all that time to have your rifle redone?

My feel for your question is from my viewpoint of being a person who target shoots at 600 yards on a weekly basis with a couple of forays to 1000 yards each year. At the intermediate range of 300 to 600 yards the 6mm BR with a 1-8 twist barrel rules. You just can't beat the combination of unbelievable accuracy and excellent wind drift. Beyond 600 yards the 6.5mm round has the edge because of superior BC bullets. Beyond 600 yards, the intristic accuracy of the round becomes less important and the wind drift becomes more important. Even the best bullets are blown 6" for each mph of breeze at 1000 yards, which more than offsets a slightly more accurate round. This is why guys like David Tubb can win long range shooting events with a box stock rifle. They can read the wind enough better than the rest of us to more than compensate for any lack of accuracy in the basic rifle and cartridge.
You were talking about the high dollar Lost River bullets, but might want to look at them from another viewpoint. Instead of looking at going to the specialty bullets to gain a high BC, simply go to a different bullet diameter that gives a gain in BC. Much cheaper and more useful unless you are tied to a particular bullet diameter.

After having a barrel done in a caliber that burned out in about 1000 rounds I will never go that route again. I enjoy shooting too much and just hate to have the rifle down time. The 6mm BR gives real long barrel life, superb accuracy, excellent components, and is reasonably inexpensive to reload. For those reasons it will get the nod for my next barrel.

If you want to punch holes in paper, 6mm ppc. But I get 3680 fps with 70 gr BT's in a 24 in barrel chamebered for 6-284. It is just the ticket for Wiley P. Coyote. It consistently shoots under a half inch and I not a benchrest shooter. Also the load is not max. 3400 fps with 95 gr Partitions comes in handy in November.

Saludos...Frank

If you are just punching paper or small varmints, the bigger 6mms are un-necessary. If you are going to shoot deer or antelope, the range at which you'll shoot is of some importance.

The 243 AI and 6mm AI should also be on your list to consider; the 243 AI will digest factory ammunition and the 6mm AI is almost the equal of a 6mm-284.

Tom

Montana,
You said that the 6 BR is the American version of the PPC. That is incorrect as the 6ppc was created by Ferris Pindell and Dr. Lou Palmisano. Its as American as it gets. Jim

You might take a look at the 6BR Dasher...the 6BR with the shoulder mover forward and sharpened a bit.

Gunsmith:Spencer's Custom Guns, Clay Spencer, Scottsville Va. [804] 293-6836
Barrel: Lilja, Spencer, Shilen, or Krieger
Groove: Take your pick, not much difference in accuracy either way.
Caliber: 6 BR Dasher, or .243 AI, [The 6-284 is overbore, minimal increase in velocity for all the extra powder used, just not very efficient].
Twist: Depends on what bullet you want to use, 1-12 would work good in either caliber for up to 80 gr bullets. 1-8 for bullets heavier than 80 gr. I wouldn't use anything lighter than 70 gr. in either chambering.
Lapp Scope Rings: The only way to do it right, or use Burris Signature Rings, they have the plastic inserts for better alignment without having to Lapp, they also give you the advantage of changing elevation by using different thickness of offsets.
When working with that Rem action don't put more money into it than its worth. Lapp the bolt lugs, face the reciever ,Stop there, full blown blueprinting is going to cost within $150 of custom action. Been ther done that.

Although the 6mm/284 is way over bore capacity it seems you like it. If you believe Ken Howells theory on bore life you would select a cartridge like that and then load it with a very slow burning powder and get a little less than max velocity. You can explore this at www.24hourcampfire.com on Howell's page.

If it were me I would just get a .243 Win, 6mm Rem or the new 6mm WSSM.

Easy choice. The PPC and the BR will have feeding problems,some say that the 6-284 will too.The PPC will need bolt face work too. Someone mentioned the 243AI,I'd go that way or the 6mm AI.

If you are willing to mess with the bolt face, the PPC or the new WSSM in 6mm.

If using the standard bolt face, the 6br or the 6mm International (22-250 necked up, improved or not).

It's just a matter of selecting the case capacity and the bolt face.

My PPC does almost 3500 fps with 55 gr. ballistic tips (and at very sane pressures). Out to 400 yards, the trajectory is indistiguishable from a 75 gr. ballistic tip. HTH, Dutch.

TomP: I don't know where you are getting your information on the 6/284 being almost equal to a 6AI. My 6/284 puts a 68 gr match bullet at 3820fps (I've had it over 4000fps)and my 6AI with a 95 gr bullet does 3391fps. Also my 6ppc get the best groups at about 3300/3400fps and I don't think you can get 3800fps out of a 6ppc. If I was going to built a 6mm I think I would do a 243AI or a 6AI with a 1/12 twist to handle the 80 gr bullets and put a muzzle break on it. I use 6ppc and 6br plus alot of 222,223AI,222AI for pd hunting but find in the wind nothing beats a heavy 6mm bullet. One thing is with these fast cases barrel life is pretty low. With the 6/284 about 1000 rd would be tops with it. Well good luck. Tom
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Rich,
Clay's making his own barrels now?

When I knew him, he swore by Hart.

Leftoverdj, Clay started making his own barrels about 2 or 3 yrs ago. Clay has built 2 guns for me now. A friend of mine has a Spencer built .243 AI on a Stolle action. I was never into custom that much until I saw that .243 AI shoot. Truely amazing. My next custom will be on a BAT action with a Spencer barrel. I haven't decided on the caliber yet.

Montana,

Just curious, why aren't you happy with the VLS?

I am really surprised that no one has said plain old 243win.

Fits in nicely between the ultra accurate and the ultra velocity. It should be possible to get it accurate enough that you and your technique are the limiting factor. 55gr @ 4000fps, 80gr @ 3,300fps 90gr VLD @ 3,200fps. Barrel life in the standard region ie 2.5k or so. Factory ammunition easily available.

Remember it was once a hot wildcat.

I keep reading all these 6mm rounds but noone has mentioned the 240wby mag. It is capable of 70 grain bullets at 3800 fps and above with anough tweaking.

Ah fought the same fight as you are going through just reciently. Even down to the exact same rifle, I'm have a 700VS in .308 torn down and rebuilt. Here are the rifle specs, its being built by Mike Bryant in TX.

Lilja 1.200 HV taper 6mm – 8 twist to finish at 28"
Rem 700 SA LH Action complete truing, Holland pinned lug
Chamber to 6 BR .271 neck for Lapua brass throated for VLD's
Jewell HVR 8oz trigger
H-S Precision stock bedded and floated

I'm also thinking about adding the Holland firing pin and springs to speed lock time.

I also had serious thoughts about almost all 6mm's 6mmAI, 6mm/06, 6mm/284, 6mm/250 6mm Dasher. In the end I could not ignore the reputation of the 6BR and if you comprimise and put a 1/12tw or 1/10tw barrel and stick to 60-80gr bullets you should still be in the mid 3k for velocity.