If you could have only one for deer and varmint huntin which would YOU choose? and why?

.250 because you can get more better bullets for deer in it. That, and it just a cool old caliber. Now if Remington would just bring a production version on the 7 action.

The 6MM Rem for sure.....because it's a longer range varminter and a spectacular deer cartridge as well as pronghorns.

While I've always wanted a 250 Savage, if I could only have one, it would be the 6mm Remington.

You say deer and varmints...

While both are adequate for deer, the 6mm is definitely better at longer ranges for the varmints. And to me, varmints are all about shooting long range. I actually had a 6mm Rem built just for long range groundhogs, based on the performance of one I owned earlier.

Tough choice, but I'm going with the 6mm.

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Originally posted by RonsGuns:
If you could have only one for deer and varmint huntin which would YOU choose? and why?

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A 9 twist 6mm rem. My all time favourite rifle!

250-3000. While I've owned nearly every factory 6mm and some wildcats, I will never again hunt big game with them. I've seen well hit deer size game go hundreds of yards before expiring - the farthest I've ever had a deer or black bear go after being hit with a 250-300 or 257 Roberts is a whopping 10 yds! As far as I am concerned, big game calibers begin at the 257 bore, everything less is a varmint rifle...

Had both and the .250-3000 stayed. Bullet selection, mainly. Like a couple of previous posters, I have seen too many failures of 6mm bullets to keep one around.

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Originally posted by Leftoverdj:
Had both and the .250-3000 stayed. Bullet selection, mainly. Like a couple of previous posters, I have seen too many failures of 6mm bullets to keep one around.

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Sounds like too much speed, the wrong bullet or both. Barnes makes an 6mm 85 gr. Triple Shock X-Bullet BT (Part #24341) that should eliviate either problem.

While Barnes used to have somewhat of a reputation for petal breakage, they have since corrected this problem. I have yet to hear of a failure in any of their new bullets. Barnes X-bullets usually perform better than bullets of HIGHER weight.

Go with the 6mm. Anything bigger is JUST a deer cartridge.

9.3x62...

I'm interested in your comments.

The 243 and the 257 Roberts are practically identical, ballistically.

I bought a 243, with the intention of using it for pronghorn (generally agreed as adequate), and perhaps for some deer hunting. Out here in Utah, a big mulie can run 300 pounds, and a lot of people seem to think the 243 is really too light for them.

My latest is a 6.5x55, which, with modern loads, everyone pretty well agrees is adequate for big mulies.

Anyway, I'm interested in your comments, if you care to expand on what you've said. Just trying to make sure I carry the right gun for the job.

Ron - I've owned several Savage 99's in the 250/3000 that I really enjoyed and all would kill deer neatly, but only one would shoot into an inch on a regular basis. I've had a couple of .243's (no 6mm) that kill just as well, if I do my part, and have been superbly accurate. I currently own an Encore with a Fox Ridge barrel in the .250 that my wife has now taken over. To date it has taken 3 deer, but nothing over 200 yards and none of the deer went over 20 yards. The Encore, for several reasons, shoots a 120gr.HPBT at just over 2700fps and is a deadly combination on deer (to date, two of the three deer with this heavier bullet). You can't get a bullet that heavy in a .243 diameter bullet (Barnes does list a 115gr. "original" RN). The 100gr. bullet in a .243 has a SD of .242 verses a 100gr. .257 bullet has a SD of .216, plus the BC is better for the .243. Now the difference of .014 in the diameter may "turn on" some "balisticians" into concluding a vast difference in killing power, but it isn't very impressive in the "real" world with like bullets. I would suggest that most people that shoot the 250 at deer don't stretch their shots beyond 200 yards, for most of the first 250's that came on the market (1915) was during an era when scopes were not in wide use. Given that the Savage 99 was and is still one of the most popular rifles in this caliber, I'd dare say the standard rifle was usually a 2 M.O.A. gun (which is more than adequate for hunting deer). Not so with the 6mm or the .243; if the rifles that were chambered in these calibers would not shoot less than one inch at 100 yards, no varmint hunter would be caught dead with one. Conversely, I think one M.O.A. is applied for the same rifle out to ranges (too long on deer) where the bullet does not have the velocity, SD, BC, energy, or bullet construction to effect enough tissue damage to kill animals, the size of deer, cleanly everytime. I don't think the .250 is any better with 100 gr. bullets used in the same game "senarios" as with the 6mm's. The heavier bullets in the 250 may be an entirely different story, but the range will not differ because of the heavier bullet's trajectory at a slower velocity. I would choose bewteen the 2 cartidges based on which type, model, and brand of rifle I liked the best and worry less about the caliber. Use a good bullet for either one and limit your long range shots to varmints and I think you will have your solution. My 2 cents; for there are many on this post who would not have a 6mm or shooting anything bigger than a coyote, I just don't happen to be one of them. I certainly respect the opinions of the others whether I agree or not, for personal experience usually dictates our choices. Mags

I have a Remington VLS in 6mm Rem., and it's one of the sweetest shooting rifles I've ever owned. True you can shoot a heavier bullet from the 250-3000, but usually the 6mm is more accurate plus you can use it for the smaller criters. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

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Originally posted by denton:
9.3x62...

I'm interested in your comments.

The 243 and the 257 Roberts are practically identical, ballistically.

I bought a 243, with the intention of using it for pronghorn (generally agreed as adequate), and perhaps for some deer hunting. Out here in Utah, a big mulie can run 300 pounds, and a lot of people seem to think the 243 is really too light for them.

My latest is a 6.5x55, which, with modern loads, everyone pretty well agrees is adequate for big mulies.

Anyway, I'm interested in your comments, if you care to expand on what you've said. Just trying to make sure I carry the right gun for the job.

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Denton:

Much is said of "enough" gun. While I am generally not one to quibble with small ballistic differences, it has been my experience that there are certain thresholds that seem to make a meaningful difference, conditional on a given game animal. One such example is the jump in frontal area and bullet weight (though more the former) from 243 to 257.

Now, I have shot a number of deer with a 243 or 6mm or 6mm-3000 or 6mm BR that went only a short distance, but, as I mentioned, I trailed a couple (well-hit) way too far with little to no blood tail (snow made tracking easy though) to put me at complete ease with using 243 bores. I've also spent a bit too much time trailing 6mm-shot deer with friends.

I actually read a very interesting article once that had large data sets on deer shot with 243, 257, 277, 284, and 308 bores (IIRC) - anyway, the 257 bore came out on top (as measured in distance of tracking, again IIRC) even with sample sizes in excess of 250! (Thus respectably precise estimates). I'll try to find it, as I am sure you would be interested in it, given your stats bent.

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Go with the 6mm. Anything bigger is JUST a deer cartridge.

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On the contrary, 250-3000 with a varmint length barrel will shoot 75s at 3500 fps or so and do so with less powder, noise, and barrel wear than the 6mm. I think it would make a fine varmint round.

Every 250-3000 I have owned has been superbly accurate, as good as any 6mm I've owned.

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Originally posted by 9.3x62:

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Go with the 6mm. Anything bigger is JUST a deer cartridge.

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On the contrary, 250-3000 with a varmint length barrel will shoot 75s at 3500 fps or so and do so with less powder, noise, and barrel wear than the 6mm. I think it would make a fine varmint round.

Every 250-3000 I have owned has been superbly accurate, as good as any 6mm I've owned.

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I agree completely. I have owned a number of 6mm's and settled on the .240 Weatherby for Mule Deer here out west. The .25 Savage is just a better choice when including both deer and varmints in one mix. Lawdog

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Originally posted by mags:
My 2 cents; for there are many on this post who would not have a 6mm or shooting anything bigger than a coyote, I just don't happen to be one of them. I certainly respect the opinions of the others whether I agree or not, for personal experience usually dictates our choices. Mags

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I agree. It also depends on if you are PRIMARILY hunting varmints with an occasional deer or a deer hunter who occasionally hunts varmints.

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Originally posted by 9.3x62:

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Go with the 6mm. Anything bigger is JUST a deer cartridge.

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On the contrary, 250-3000 with a varmint length barrel will shoot 75s at 3500 fps or so and do so with less powder, noise, and barrel wear than the 6mm. I think it would make a fine varmint round.

Every 250-3000 I have owned has been superbly accurate, as good as any 6mm I've owned.

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Actually, that was MY quote. Either will make a decent varmint round, so will a 30-06 with 110 grainers. I if I was going to use a 25 cal for multipurpose hunting, it would be a 25-06. A 25-06 will do EVERYTHING the 250-3000 will do, better.

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I actually read a very interesting article once that had large data sets on deer shot with 243, 257, 277, 284, and 308 bores (IIRC) - anyway, the 257 bore came out on top (as measured in distance of tracking, again IIRC) even with sample sizes in excess of 250! (Thus respectably precise estimates). I'll try to find it, as I am sure you would be interested in it, given your stats bent.

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That would be a great help, if it's not a lot of trouble. If you just have a reference on the article, I can buy a copy from the publisher. Thanks.

At my age, I want them dead, and near the truck, preferably uphill from the truck.

Flippy:

Yes, we know it was your quote...

A 257 roberts will get you within 100 fps of a 25-06 with less barrel wear, less powder, less recoil, a shorter barrel, a shorter action, a lighter rifle, all with less noise. No game animal that would be sensibly hunted with either will be able to tell the difference...

http://www.hunt101.com/img/229187.jpg
Well theres your deer on top and varmint on bottom. That's out of an old Tang Safety Ruger 250-3000. While not what I would take to the dog towns, I wouldn't take a heavy barreled 6 on a long hike after deer either. Not sure there is a real good dual purpose rig if we really want to get serious on either end of the spectrum.

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Originally posted by Flippy:
if I was going to use a 25 cal for multipurpose hunting, it would be a 25-06. A 25-06 will do EVERYTHING the 250-3000 will do, better.

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Really?

Like to see you fit a .25-06 into a Mini Mauser action. Even into a Savage 99.

Or get the barrel life of a .250-3000.

Or get better cast bullet accuracy with a .25-06.

I've never understood why, but the 257 Roberts is typically loaded to no more than about 48 K CUP, while the 25-06 is loaded to about 51.5.

There is about 250 fps difference between the Roberts, at that pressure, and the 25-06, with equal barrels and 100 grain bullets. (Hodgdon manual uses 26" Bob, 24" 25-06).

Makes me wonder if there is some good reason to keep the 257 at lower pressures? And what would happen if the 257 were loaded to 25-06 pressures?

Some rough figures indicate that the pressure difference is enough to account for about 150 fps. So, at equal pressure, there should be somewhere around 100 fps difference, as someone already stated... not enough to get very excited about.

At the same time, a 6.5x55 will throw 100 grains within 50 fps of the 25-06, using light charges, suitable for the milsurps. At full modern loads, the 6.5x55 is actually faster than the 25-06, at 100 grains.

My solution is simple: I need them all!!

I've had both and I still have the .250 Savage.

I have a limited run LH Savage 111 in .250 Savage that I wouldn't part with. I put it in a Boyd's laminated stock and replaced all the plastic parts with metal. That's my "poor man's custom" job. I get right at 3000 fps using the 100g Barnes TSX and a little under 3300 fps with the 85g Nosler BT. Both loads use H414 and show no signs of pressure in my rifle.

I killed 2 deer with the TSX loading this year and got a double shoulder complete penetration on one deer. Neither bullet was recovered at both deer dropped in their tracks.

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Originally posted by denton:
At the same time, a 6.5x55 will throw 100 grains within 50 fps of the 25-06, using light charges, suitable for the milsurps. At full modern loads, the 6.5x55 is actually faster than the 25-06, at 100 grains.

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As a great fan of 6.5s I nearly completely agree but have a significant caveat.

No 6.5x55 or 6.5x57 is going to get within 100fps of a similar barrel length 25-06 loaded within the pressure range of the 25-06.

I have obtained 3,300fps from my 26" barrelled 6.5x57R loaded to max pressure in a very strong action capable of taking weatherby pressures. This with a short bearing surface hornady 100gr sp and a hugely compressed load of 54gr VVN160. A 24" 25-06 would do 3,400fps.

6.5x55s will max out slightly lower. 3,400fps out of a 6.5x55 is way out there pressure wise -certainly over the saami 25-06 levels.

I get 3000 fps with 120s out of my 22.5" barreled 6.5x57. That's close enough to 25-06 for me. Then the 130-160s come into play, tipping the comparison to the 6.5s IMO...

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Originally posted by Leftoverdj:

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Originally posted by Flippy:
if I was going to use a 25 cal for multipurpose hunting, it would be a 25-06. A 25-06 will do EVERYTHING the 250-3000 will do, better.

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Really?

Like to see you fit a .25-06 into a Mini Mauser action. Even into a Savage 99.

Or get the barrel life of a .250-3000.

Or get better cast bullet accuracy with a .25-06.

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First off, if I wanted a 400 yard varmint gun it would NOT be a Savage 99. I have several and none of them are accurate enough for that no matter who is behind the trigger. It's not the right gun for the purpose.

You are correct the mini-mauser action is too small for a 25-06. I never said it would fit in a 99 or a mini-mauser. I said the CARTRIDGE will do everything the 250-3000 will do. I should have said "out perform the 250-3000." I would only put a 25-06 into a large ring anyway. If you can't carry 10 oz. more rifle, you probably need more cardio.

Cast bullets? Why would you want to shoot cast bullets? Not for the cost savings I hope. When quality bullets are as relativley inexpensive as they are, for the amount of accuracy they impart. Maybe when I have lots of "spare" time.

If you were actually able to load a 250-3000 to get NEAR the velocity of the 25-06 (look in the reloading pages found on this website), I can't see much barrel life. Powder burning is powder burning.

As per the numbers in the reloading pages, the 25-06 has between 400-500 fps advantage over the 250-3000. Some can be attributed to the difference in barrel length, 22" vs. 26". However, sometimes this difference is only 100 or so fps depending on cartridge.

If you can show me a comparison between guns with these cartridges with the same barrel length, with even CLOSE to the same numbers. I will retract everything I said.

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Originally posted by 9.3x62:
Flippy:

Yes, we know it was your quote...

A 257 roberts will get you within 100 fps of a 25-06 with less barrel wear, less powder, less recoil, a shorter barrel, a shorter action, a lighter rifle, all with less noise. No game animal that would be sensibly hunted with either will be able to tell the difference...

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I said, 25-06 not 257. A 6mm Rem and a 257 share the same parent, 7x57. Maybe this was the confusion. Also look at the availability of commercial ammo for these.

I was reacting to your statement that a 25-06 would be the best choice for a 25 caliber. I disagree, and would instead favor the 257 or 257 AI, both on a SA, if I really felt that 25-06ish velocities were necessary.

As for the extra weight of a 25-06... Why carry an extra 10 oz. if it's not necessary? Why put up with extra recoil, barrel wear, weight, powder consumption, and decibels if is not necessary? Why pay MSRP when you get it for invoice?

Yes, we all know the lineage of the 7x57 family. Also, loaded ammo is sort of a moot point to most everyone on this board, as we all handload - some of us are, ahem, you might say, addicted to it.

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Originally posted by 9.3x62:
I was reacting to your statement that a 25-06 would be the best choice for a 25 caliber. I disagree, and would instead favor the 257 or 257 AI, both on a SA, if I really felt that 25-06ish velocities were necessary.

As for the extra weight of a 25-06... Why carry an extra 10 oz. if it's not necessary? Why put up with extra recoil, barrel wear, weight, powder consumption, and decibels if is not necessary? Why pay MSRP when you get it for invoice?

Yes, we all know the lineage of the 7x57 family. Also, loaded ammo is sort of a moot point to most everyone on this board, as we all handload - some of us are, ahem, you might say, addicted to it.

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OK, OK, OK. The 257 IS a great cartridge. BUT the original topic was "6mm or 250-3000?" I would STILL pick the 6mm over the 250-3000 if the object was varmints with the occasional deer

Loaded ammo is somewhat of a concern. When loaded ammo becomes hard to find, as is the case with both the 6mm Rem and the 250-3000, when you need to grab a quick box for whatever reason, you can't. That's all I was trying to say.

.250-3000 over the 6mm Rem on the average day for me. I have killed deer with the 6's and 1/4 bores, bigger is better. When I look at the different load manuals I see the typical variations from one to the other regarding BC and velocity. After purusing the Nosler 4th and given their bullet choices It seems that velocities are comparable between the two given like weights. BC's are similar...until you go up above the 100 grain threshold. Then they are REALLY different! Yep, go with the .250-3000, great cartridge.

More bullet choices for varmints in 6mm than in 25 cal.

AGAIN my choice for deer sized game with a few varmints would be 25 cal.

Varmints with a few deer, 6mm.

Flippy:

BTW, welcome to the forum...

6mm is a great varmint round but I'll go w/ 9.3 on this, big game rounds start @ .25cal & go up. So, I would pick the .250. Another option would be a .260. I have been working w/ a .260ai lately & really like this little round; 85grs @ 3300fps & 120gr @ 3000fps.

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Originally posted by RonsGuns:
If you could have only one for deer and varmint huntin which would YOU choose? and why?

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This was the original question.

My question is again: are you leaning more towards varmints or deer?

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Originally posted by 9.3x62:
Flippy:

BTW, welcome to the forum...

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Thanks.

This is fun.

Hello,
Well, you might want to take a look at the 6.5/308 or more commonly known as the 260 Remington. It will displace a lot of cartridges mentioned above. Check out the ballistics and range of bullet weights out there for the cartridge. Just a suggestion.
Favor Center!!
dsiteman

My choice would be for the .250, but I want the Ackley Improved version or a .257 Roberts. I like the 6mm Remington, but consider the .25 cal. as slightly more versatile. I think the extra diameter is an asset on larger game.

The 6mm is the 257 Roberts necked down.

As for a comparison, ballistically the 250 will deliver more power and shoot flatter than the 6mm with any meaningful bullet weight. In .257 caliber you can get a decent deer bullet that goes up to 120 grains.

Many years ago I had a custom Mauser built up on the 6mm. It is one of my favorite guns. However, if I had to do it over again, I would not choose the 6mm. I find it almost impossible to find a stocking dealer, so for me at least it is a handloading proposition only. That is not something I want in a hunting rifle that I may choose to travel with. I want something that I can buy ammo for in most any sporting goods store.

Pete

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Originally posted by vapodog:
The 6MM Rem for sure.....because it's a longer range varminter and a spectacular deer cartridge as well as pronghorns.

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You seem to be one of the few intelligent people in this discussion. Sorry I missed that initially.

My apologies.

6mm or 250-3000? Well, I've always wanted am 250 but it just never happened. I have hunted both varmint and deer (NE whitetails) with a 6mm. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, I took 4 whitetails with the 6mm. Not one of them moved out of his tracks after the shot It just makes an hell of an difference where you hit the animal. Only one of the shots was more than 100 yds. I favor a spine shot abut 6 inches or so behind the ear. They not only go down like they were poleaxed, they were! If I can't get a shot where I am sure of making a kill, I don't shoot ... ever. The bullet used was a Nozler Partition.
I used that same gun to shoot eastern chucks. Loaded for all they were worth with a light varmint bullet, they left a head, a tail and a red mist.
Out west, where shots are usually longer, and the animals bigger and heavier, I chose a 280 Remington.
The killing power of a cartridge is 25% bullet performance and 75% shooter performance. I have helped a fellow hunter track a whitetail a half mile that was paunched by a 30-06.

jlongo, you can't say it any better...