Yesterday I took the day off and to avoid the weekend rush went out to our hunting area and was rewarded with a nice mule deer buck.

The area we hunt in has a lot of alfalfa fields right up to the sage brush and is great habitat for deer and other critters. Also this area is covered with bitterbrush. Saw 4 coyotes out mousing and wished that they had been on BLM land instead of in the fields.

We hunt in a large bowl which is about 800 yards across and as usual there were the groups of does in their accustomed areas. Surprisingly there were a couple of other hunters in the area and they were moving some of the deer around with their walking. Normally this area will have 10-20 deer in it at first light and yesterday saw 14 in the bowl. As one hunter moved across the rim he spooked up a group of six deer that bailed out below him and hooked back towards me. I don't think he saw them.

When they were about 275 yards away, they stopped to look back at the hunter on the ridge and the last one in the group was a buck.

I had ranged that open area when the sun came up and knew the distance. I shot him when he was looking back over his shoulder. The 40 grain nosler did it's duty and he went straight down kicked a few times, and then was still. No rapid head movements were noticed. I shot him with a suppressed rifle and the other deer were stumped for a while deciding on which directions to run.

The best news was that the truck was only about 350 yards DOWNHILL!!!

Pictures, pics, pixs!!!!!! Let's see that guy!

quote:

Took a mule deer buck with .223 and 40g Nosler BT's.

and the point is?................

why, of course, vapo, to let the rest of us know that calibers > 223 are simply overkill.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
why, of course, vapo, to let the rest of us know that calibers > 223 are simply overkill.

If you can actually hit what you are aiming for they are. Larger bores don't overcome lack of skill.

Outstanding! And your truck was close and downhill.

quote:

Took a mule deer buck with .223 and 40g Nosler BT's.


and the point is?................

Teancum needs to grow out of it. the fact that a 22 can kill a deer is getting a little old. Stop acting like you're 14 years old.

Go to the bedroom with a few tissues and unload some testosterone.

quote:

Go to the bedroom with a few tissues and unload some testosterone.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:

quote:

Took a mule deer buck with .223 and 40g Nosler BT's.


and the point is?................

Teancum needs to grow out of it. the fact that a 22 can kill a deer is getting a little old. Stop acting like you're 14 years old.

Go to the bedroom with a few tissues and unload some testosterone.

Hey Mick

Time to climb out of the sewer.

I don't care if he took it with a sling-shot, I want pictures and a slab of meat!

Suppressed rifle? Man around here they'd throw you under the jail for that. They call that poaching in NC.

quote:

Hey Mick

Time to climb out of the sewer.

You’re right, it was uncalled for but you do have a relentless obsession with 22s. I know you own more guns then that and it would be refreshing to hear you talk about them once in a while.

I am wondering why the yotes had to be on BLM land all the ranch's I hunt on want them shot on sight.

I really like shooting yotes.

The deer probably was scared to death, not killed by the puny projectile.

Black plastic stocked rifles with shiny stainless barrels sometimes do that.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:

quote:

Hey Mick

Time to climb out of the sewer.

You’re right, it was uncalled for but you do have a relentless obsession with 22s. I know you own more guns then that and it would be refreshing to hear you talk about them once in a while.

Well, we are in a small bore forum. The subject and content of his post carry more merit than most of the reples so far.

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
Suppressed rifle? Man around here they'd throw you under the jail for that. They call that poaching in NC.

But he's not from around here. In NC you can use 209 primers and pelletized powders in ML season. They call that poaching in ID.

quote:

Well, we are in a small bore forum. The subject and content of his post carry more merit than most of the reples so far.

Well.....that's one way of saying it.....it seemed to me that the quality of the replys were a reflection of the OP!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Well, we are in a small bore forum. The subject and content of his post carry more merit than most of the reples so far.

Well.....that's one way of saying it.....it seemed to me that the quality of the replys were a reflection of the OP!

So, it's ok to troll the thread if you don't like the poster?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Took a mule deer buck with .223 and 40g Nosler BT's.

and the point is?................

I have been wondering the same thing. Haven't read anything that explains it either.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:

So, it's ok to troll the post if you don't like the poster?

Trolling? I think not! A semblance of honesty may ,however, be in order.
The initial posting smacks of throwing down the gauntlet again in a melodrama that has been boringly going on for a number of years. The story from some groups is always the same; Bang flop with my 22. It may have a little merit if we hear about the bang ** screwwwwwd ups every so often.Just one guys take on the continuing story. roger

I didn't see anything that resembles "throwing down the gauntlet." Sounded more like he reported his results. Some people here just can't stand the idea that he would use this combination and yes, troll these posts.

Terry

What's the beef here? Someone just wanted to share their experience and the poor ba$tard gets ridiculed for it in return. What's wrong with a little congrats or well done or perhaps nice job? All this negativity reminds me of a bunch of old bitter farts with nothing nice to say! Perhaps it's scrooge practice?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I am wondering why the yotes had to be on BLM land all the ranch's I hunt on want them shot on sight.

I really like shooting yotes.

The concern was that I didn't have permission to hunt on the hay field where the coyotes were running, most likely mousing. The farm houses here are a long way from the hay fields and in the time to knock on the door and get permission most likely the coyotes would be far gone. I've hunted these areas before specifically for coyotes and had great luck.

I agree with you on shooting the yodel dogs. That morning that I shot the deer, at sunup it sounded like there were around 4-5 yotes in/around that bowl calling out. Yet as often happens when you move into their area.....nothing.

I’ve been reading Teancum’s posts for a long time. I don’t dislike Teancum or anyone else on this forum but he does have an “in your face” attitude from time to time.

If someone can’t see that attitude, maybe it’s because that person shares that attitude. I think your non-ending feud with Hot Core is effecting your sense of humor and it’s become an all 22, all the time “thing” now. Your feud with Hot Core (and a few others) is really starting to mess you guys up. You boys need to lighten up, you’re too young to have strokes over the opinions of a few old farts.

I’m having fun.

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
Suppressed rifle? Man around here they'd throw you under the jail for that. They call that poaching in NC.

I'm glad I don't live in NC.

Suppressors are legal in Idaho; they are a lot more common in Europe and in New Zealand and Australia.

The restriction for rifles in Idaho are basically:

No rifles over 16 pounds, that includes scope and slings and other stuff.

No fully automatic firearms.

Only shotguns using shot #00 and larger,

No rimfire rifle and pistol or muzzleloader pistol except for mountain lion.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I’ve been reading Teancum’s posts for a long time. I don’t dislike Teancum or anyone else on this forum but he does have an “in your face” attitude from time to time.

If someone can’t see that attitude, maybe it’s because that person shares that attitude. I think your non-ending feud with Hot Core is effecting your sense of humor and it’s become an all 22, all the time “thing” now. Your feud with Hot Core (and a few others) is really starting to mess you guys up. You boys need to lighten up, you’re too young to have strokes over the opinions of a few old farts.

I’m having fun.

I'm having fun. Your opinions don't offend me everyone has one. Although you can get stuck in the sewer now and then.

Ah......this is the small caliber forum.

quote:

Ah......this is the small caliber forum.

Which covers a lot of calibers.

quote:

Although you can get stuck in the sewer now and then.

It’s a personal flaw. I'll work on that.

There used to be a "this thread is worthless without pics" emoticon here.

I'd like to see pics of the deer, and then after skinning, showing the entrance hole and then inside the body cavity.

I'd like to see what the BT did. I may have missed it, but where did the bullet impact....surely if there's time for this spirited debate, there's time for photos.

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R:

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
why, of course, vapo, to let the rest of us know that calibers > 223 are simply overkill.

If you can actually hit what you are aiming for they are. Larger bores don't overcome lack of skill.

Yes, larger bores can overcome lack of skill. I know from experience that if you hit a groundhog about anywhere with a 44 Magnum it will die. Similarly, if you hit a Klipspringer about anywhere it will die if your gun is a 460 S&W Magnum. A deer hit in the rear with a 115 grain VLD out of a 25/06 will die.

I could go on. My only deer with .224 caliber stories are two with a 22-250 and one with a 222 and those bullets were really placed right.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Yesterday I took the day off and to avoid the weekend rush went out to our hunting area and was rewarded with a nice mule deer buck.

The area we hunt in has a lot of alfalfa fields right up to the sage brush and is great habitat for deer and other critters. Also this area is covered with bitterbrush. Saw 4 coyotes out mousing and wished that they had been on BLM land instead of in the fields.

We hunt in a large bowl which is about 800 yards across and as usual there were the groups of does in their accustomed areas. Surprisingly there were a couple of other hunters in the area and they were moving some of the deer around with their walking. Normally this area will have 10-20 deer in it at first light and yesterday saw 14 in the bowl. As one hunter moved across the rim he spooked up a group of six deer that bailed out below him and hooked back towards me. I don't think he saw them.

When they were about 275 yards away, they stopped to look back at the hunter on the ridge and the last one in the group was a buck.

I had ranged that open area when the sun came up and knew the distance. I shot him when he was looking back over his shoulder. The 40 grain nosler did it's duty and he went straight down kicked a few times, and then was still. No rapid head movements were noticed. I shot him with a suppressed rifle and the other deer were stumped for a while deciding on which directions to run.

The best news was that the truck was only about 350 yards DOWNHILL!!!

Nice Job, but Hot Core takes them all the time with his 22 HornetWinMag.. with a 30 grain HP, and 6.5 grains of Blue Dot... and when he takes them, they are standing in the neighbor's back yard, climbing INTO his pickup when taken!!!

I have a couple 22-250s and have shot alot of varmints with them and have a heathy respect for what they can do but do not consider any 22 centerfire adaqate for Mule deer, I have never shot a deer with a 22 but have witnessed 4 deer shot by 22-250s, one ran 50 yards then droped dead, one was shot 4 times before it died and one appeared to be a decent hit behind the shoulder and was never recovered even after hours of searching with a dog, and the fourth one was an attempted head shot and I watched through binoculars as the deers lower jaw droped, he went down for a couple seconds and then got up and ran off and was never recovered.

I have fired at 12 deer over the years with my 30-30 all at less than 100 yards and had 12 recoveries, only one I had to shoot twice due to poor shot placement the first shot.

From my own experience on the subject of deer with 22s I would not be able in good consience hunt mule deer with a 22 centerfire.

I have no doubt that they can cleanly kill deer with perfect shot placement, but in the event the shot placement for whatever reason is not perfect there is too much room for error, and if the shot placement is good there is still the problem of tracking the deer with little or no blood trail.

Congrats on the deer and would love to see pics.

quote:

...but Hot Core takes them all the time with his 22 HornetWinMag.. with a 30 grain HP, and 6.5 grains of Blue Dot... and when he takes them, they are standing in the neighbor's back yard, climbing INTO his pickup when taken!!!

.

Seems as if "stopping" power is in question here, so I may as well stir the brew a bit more and add my opinion on what I call an injustice to a fast and clean kill which is bow hunting. I have seen hundreds if not thousands of outdoor t.v. shows where a "perfectly" placed arrow only sent the animal running off bleeding to death. Most animals are recoved within 100 to 300 yards but some are recovered within 100 feet, than many are never recovered at all! So what happens when the animal isn't recovered, "shoot another". How many deer have been shot with arrows to recover just one of them. I can tell you with personal experience that I have run into dozens of deer during the general hunt and later in the elk hunt with an arrow still in place or bearing an arrow wound in it's half rotted and scavenged carcass! Of course bow hunters defend their hunting saying "I've never had a deer run more than 50 or 100 feet or I've never lost my game". BS! Watch any show on t.v. where they are bow hunting and tell me they all drop in that range. Do you ever notice on these shows that there are two segments of the shot? 1: where the animal is shot, then after it's shot they talk into the camera for a moment or cut to a commercial this is to buy time for the animal to "bleed-out". Then the second part is showing the approach to the animal which is usually within yards but the truth is they searched some time before going back on video. Then there are times when they don't go after the animal at all but rather talk about the shot and say "let's go get it" then go to another segment. Answer: lost animal, let's get another!
now that I have stirred the blood of our string bending dart throwers, I'm ready for the wonderful replies. Be gentle...

why is there always an --except for-- in hunting regulations. It should be cut and dried, period.

What the

As a bow hunter myself, I can see that you haven't done much bow hunting. I have taken around 30 animals with a bow here in Idaho and Utah and found the effectiveness of an arrow in front of the diaphragm to be amazingly destructive and quick. In Idaho we are limited to one deer per year. I have missed some shots but have recovered all animals that I drew blood on.

I have found dozens of animals in the late archery hunts here that were left for dead without any meat or antler harvesting. Lots of stories about how the bow hunter wounds and does not find his critters, just from the numbers alone the magnum toters will wound and lose many more. Probably from some magnum toter who was concerned with stopping power and not accuracy.

It would be informative for you to go with a bow hunter that is good and witness what really happens.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
What the

It would be informative for you to go with a bow hunter that is good and witness what really happens.

That's fair, I won't lie and say I have been on a bow hunt nor have I actually seen "in real life" any animal shot with an arrow. And it would indeed be informative as well as fun to go with a bow hunter. I am simply putting my "post" experience of finding dead animals, arrows, etc., in the bag and putting 2 & 2 together as well as T.V. docs to substantiate my opinion. And please remember that all important admission "opinion" as I am far from an expert on this topic. With that, I must also add that; for all the deer I have seen shot (with a rifle), even shots that could have been better placed, the deer go into "shock" and if they don't drop dead before hitting the ground, it's not long there-after. The amount of tissue, organ, muscle and bone damage a bullet does is simply incredible. The animal on almost every occasion goes out like a dog being euthanized. Of course there are some goofs that a$$ shoot or blow off a leg, but for most of us we have an 8" to 12" vital area that all but guarantees putting the animal down right now without bleeding to death. So with that, would you say that; a top quality arrow/head combination perfectly placed by an expert archer would kill just as fast as a perfectly placed bullet/caliber by an expert shooter?

And BTW, I still want a slab of that meat!

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R:

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
Suppressed rifle? Man around here they'd throw you under the jail for that. They call that poaching in NC.

But he's not from around here. In NC you can use 209 primers and pelletized powders in ML season. They call that poaching in ID.

Bruce,
Don't have a problem with suppressors if they're legal in Idaho. We sell a bunch of them in the shop, just not supposed to use them for hunting in NC. On the other hand I am a purist when it comes to hunting with black powder and I don't care for the shotgun primers, pellitized powders, saboted bullets, and bolt action muzzleloaders they are allowed to use here. It's a good case of a primative weapons season that got out of hand.

quote:

So with that, would you say that; a top quality arrow/head combination perfectly placed by an expert archer would kill just as fast as a perfectly placed bullet/caliber by an expert shooter?

I don't know for sure which would be faster in the killing of the critter. This I have experienced and seen while bow hunting with buddies; an arrow placed in front of the diaphragm will kill the animal usually in less than 20 seconds. Now the animal may stay in the area or bolt off on a mad rush. In either case the critter will die in about the 20 second time period. Bears seem to be the exception to this in that they will survive for a longer time period and usually go farther than the deer and elk. I shot a bull elk once at about 35 yards and it ran about 20 yards and stopped when I bungled at him and he tried to respond to the bugle. I've shot critters with a rifle that went down immediately and most likely were dead very quickly. So the answer would be......depends.

The cutting edge on these broadheads is so very sharp that the biggest danger in bowhunting, other than falling out of a treestand, is cutting yourself on them. Those clean cuts will bleed forever and don't seem to clot up very fast which is part of their killing power.

A sharp broadhead has very little energy but will penetrate like crazy and most of the time, with the heavier bow weights available today, will pass completely through the animal, elk included. You ought to see if you can go along with one of your bow hunting buddies the next time out and see what really happens.

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R:

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
Suppressed rifle? Man around here they'd throw you under the jail for that. They call that poaching in NC.

But he's not from around here. In NC you can use 209 primers and pelletized powders in ML season. They call that poaching in ID.

Bruce,
Don't have a problem with suppressors if they're legal in Idaho. We sell a bunch of them in the shop, just not supposed to use them for hunting in NC. On the other hand I am a purist when it comes to hunting with black powder and I don't care for the shotgun primers, pellitized powders, saboted bullets, and bolt action muzzleloaders they are allowed to use here. It's a good case of a primative weapons season that got out of hand.

**************************************************************
Clowdis

You would like hunting in Idaho with a muzzle loader. Here is a dirty summary of some of the rules:

Has to be loaded from the muzzle

Loose powder only

No scopes

No sabots

No 209 primers, only flint or percussion cap

Percussion cap must be exposed when the rifle is cocked


These guidelines are really going back to the primitive side which is great. These muzzle loaders get special and extended seasons as a result of these limitations.