Do you think the .264 Winchester Magnum would be a good choice to bulid a 1000 yard rifle around?

Thank you.

Generally speaking you build a 1000 yd. rifle, bench or prone rifle more around available bullets than cartridges. I have used the .264 alot in a hunting rifle. It has great bullets available for long-range. Honestly the 6.5/284 is a much better choice. The .264 is just too much overbore for volume shooting. I have a 6.5/284, prone rifle on an RPA action with a 30" Krieger that has right at 3000 rounds through it and no need to set it back yet. gduffey

I think it would actually be a better 1000 yd cartridge with the possible caveat being the belt complicates reloading, although screwing out your sizing die a few turns should move the head spacing to the shoulder as for the round being overbore etc, if you every worry about that just put less powder in the case! down load to 6.5/284 levels or run full throttle its your choice is the 264 mag

the USMC rifle team has been kicking much boody for the past several years at Camp Perry with the 6.5x284 at 1000 yards. Black Hills loads ammunition for it. Next Question?

Rich

Do you think backing the .264 Winchester Magnum down to 6.5x284 velocities would hurt accuracy in the .264?

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Do you think the .264 Winchester Magnum would be a good choice to bulid a 1000 yard rifle around?

Thank you.

In that caliber it depends a lot on what you want the bullet to do at 1000 yards. Are you punching paper or do you want to kill something?

Are you thinking of competition or just some fun shooting at longer distances?

Jim

With the right scope.. and barrel, and rings.. any 6.5 would be a good 1000 yd rifle....

I don't think one needs a magnum either...

I've used 243s, 6mm Rem and 6.5 x 57, 6.5 x 55, and 260 at 800 yds and they all dropped them right in there....

another 200 yds, would have been some more clicks on the scope...

Those bases with the increased degrees on the rear mount are pretty handy I understand...

Course I have never had the opportunity to be part of a 1000 yd club....

But in the military, we got to engage targets once in a while out to 1200 meters.. and I was one of the better ones in my unit for hitting them at that distance...and that was with a 308...

Informal paper punching and fun shooting at longer distances are the goals.

243 and 6mmBR do great at 1000y when there is not wind.

They have so little recoil, that they are more accurate for their weight class.

But there is wind, so the 6.5-284 is the current 1000 yard favorite.

/

No, don't build a 264. Way overbore, shoot out the barrel quickly.
currently 6.5-284 rules 1K competition, barrels last 1000-1500 rounds for match accuracy. Many now trying the 284 or 7 WSM with advent of SMK 175 gr bullet. Supposed to give 2000 rd barrel life with superior BC.
Many records are held with 6BR or derivations thereof, also plain vanilla 243 with 115 DTAC bullets. Barrel life 2-3000 rounds.
Before building, peruse 6mmBr website and long-range.com for info.

Building a rifle is a lot of fun. JMHO you may want to research other calibers.
Larry

I will try to add anothe point or two: At 1000 yds. you are trying to build the combinationt to HOLD ELEVATION. Many important factors. Primers can and do make a big difference. You are trying to put something together so that all you have to focus on is the wind, and believe me that is enough to think about. You will not believe how many people chase a vertical zero around and is due to some factor such as: primers, STD. DEV. of their load, etc. I love the .264 WM, it is not what you are looking for, for 1000 yd. shooting. gduffey

I've referenced the Barnes Reloading Manual Number 3 to compare the 6.5-284 Norma and the .264 Winchester. Both with 26" barrels and I selected a 140 grain bullet:

6.5-284: 2888 fps max
.264: 2978 fps max

That seems close to me in terms of barrel life. Is there a difference in the pressure curve and/or does case design make a difference?

Thanks.

quote:

6.5-284: 2888 fps max
.264: 2978 fps max

That seems close to me in terms of barrel life. Is there a difference in the pressure curve and/or does case design make a difference?

No

Barrel wear is caused by the amount of powder burnt in a given volume. In this case the volume will be the same but the 264 win mag can burn 70 odd grains of powder while the 6.5-284 would be struggling to burn 60 grains.

Another disadvantage with the 264 win mag, in long range precision shooting, over a bench would be the recoil and muzzel blast.I think it would upset my concentration and tire me out pretty quickly.

Finally, I will add: At Camp Perry in the Leach Cup(Any rifle to caliber .33/Iron sights)and the Wibeldon(Any rifle to caliber .33/Any sight), prone at 1000 for 20 shots you will see exactly zero .264 WM. You will see many 6.5/284's. gduffey

Buliwyf: I think I understand what you're wanting to do. Unlike the guys here who shoot formal match 1000 yards, you are interested in doing it on an informal basis and to suit yourself. If I read that right, then there's no reason that you wouldn't be happy with a .264 for 1000 yard shooting.

Now, as to velocities: With appropriate powders the 6.5-284 will max out (assumes pressures of approximately 54,000 cup or 65,000 psi) at just under 3000 fps with a 140 grain match-type bullet (Sierra, Nosler, Norma). If you use the proper very slow powders, a .264 will add 200 fps to that velocity. Powders generally used for the 50 BMG are appropriate to the .264/140 grain bullet. Try the new Hodgdon US 869, surplus WC 872, or AA 8700. "Slow" powders like RL 22, IMR 7828, and H1000 are somewhat too fast for the .264/140gr.

Recoil from a .264 is negligible for a 1000 yard rifle (nothing like the recoil of the big 7mm and .30 magnums that the PA boys use). Muzzle blast, though marginally greater than a 6.5-284, is immaterial since you're going to always be wearing ear protection at the bench, anyway. The final factor in favor of the .264 is that it also makes a very effective hunting rifle (if reasonably configured) when you get up from the bench with it.

So, if you're wanting a .264, want to do some informal long range paper punching with it, and want to do some very serious far-off game shooting with it, go for it. If you want to lay on your belly and play the official game, then the 6.5-284 is useful at this game and is currently "all the rage" among such game players. It's probably better suited to the official game than the .264 Win, but then nearly any medium-capacity cartridge is better suited to this game.

Buliwyf,
I understand you are wanting to build a rifle. However, you may not be aware that Remington currently has the Sendero SF II available in .264. You might find that to be a viable alternative to building a 1000 yd. rifle for "informal paper punching and fun shooting at longer distances". Exactly why I bought my .264 Sendero! Just a thought.

Thank you Stonecreek. I may have miss-asked my question. Your post is helpful. I was thinking the negative part to the .264 was the belt, but as cummins cowboy posted die set-up would move headspace to shoulder. I have wanted a .264 but never had the opportubity to own one and thought it might be the ticket for what I am wanting to do.

Thanks mudstud, I will look into the Sendero - that sounds like what I want.

I appreciate everyones comments.

quote:

Your post is helpful. I was thinking the negative part to the .264 was the belt, but as cummins cowboy posted die set-up would move headspace to shoulder.

Always treat a bottlenecked belted cartridge just as you would a bottleneck rimless. Both should headspace snugly on the shoulder.

Actually, the belt provides a "fail safe" method of headspacing that rimless cartridges don't. If, for some reason (long chamber or short cases) you have excessive headspace, the belt will allow you to fireform the first loading without excessive stretching.

I'll admit that it is superfluous on a bottleneck round, if all of the belted detractors will admit that it is at worst irrelevant and harmless.

If you have the action already, don't spend the $1000 for a Sendaro just to have to do all the tweaking to it, if it needs it. For the same $1K, again, if you have the action, you can send it to someone reputable and have it trued and re-barrelled the way you like it. I did.

I just shot regular 264 brass in mine the first time, and then neck sized from then on and have .3-.4" groups, if I can settle down and do my part, and that is with a sporter weight barrel and standard stock. While I don't shoot more than 500 yards with it, I am sure it would be my problem, not the rifle's if it was off at 1000.

I wouldn't disagree with what has been said here at all. The loading tips included. Like I said I love the .264, I may have misunderstood your intended use. I will say the the early death of .264 barrels is much exagerrated, especially with the heavier bullets. Also, top velocities are sometimes specific to just one or two powders. The chronograph is very important to the .264. Good Luck, gduffey

Thanks for your comments gduffey. They were helpful. I am looking into the 6.5-284 Norma. I do realize now that I don't need a "magnum" cartridge to shoot "longer" range.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the 6.5-06. This another great round that clips on the 264 Win Mag's tail. Yes I know it's in a longer action then a 6.5-284, but the bullets don't have to be loaded as deep as with a 6.5-284. This has been an issue with the 260 Rem, short action coupled with an extremely short throat limits use of light weight bullets unless you load the heavies deep into the powder capacity. I built a 260 Rem on a long action and throated it out further then SAAMI specs and now I can use the full potential of the 308 size case.

Joe

Joe,

Is factory brass available for the 6.5-06 or do you make it from .25-06, .270 Win, etc.?

I in the last year have become a fan of the 6.5 ( 260 rem) and have been toying with the idea of having something built that would allow me to shoot way out there. I found this article and it does get me all warm and fuzzy. It might not be what you are looking for for a cartridge then again it might.

In any event it is a pretty good read


http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek046.html