I'm looking for the best bang for my buck in a .22 cal. I do not reload and I love shooting. I'm going to use it for yotes, prairie dogs and crows on the open prairies. Shoots 250+. I'm thinking 223 because the ammunition is reasonable but I know very little about this kind of shooting. Your thoughts please. Oh any suggestions on rifles great too. I'm thinking of another browning but this too is open to your thoughts.

Don't know what your costing guide is, but the .223 rem is a cracking round for your requirements, I use it regularly out to 300 metres for fox, 40 grain nosler ballistic tip over 24.8 grains Vit 133.

You gotta look real hard to find a rifle, for your requirements, that beats the 223, all things considered.

Good luck,

Don

I recommend a 223 also.

Since you do not reload take a look at Black Hills 223 ammo.

I agree with the above posters. As far as rifles go, not knowing what your budget will allow, it would be hard to give a strong recommendation.
The Tikka rifles are excellent. Browning rifles are well appointed. Remington rifles are very popular, Savage rifles are not pretty but have a great trigger and shoot well. Ruger Hawkeye rifles are very well balanced and strikingly good looking. And they come with their own rings and bases. And I'm sure I've left someone's favorite out.
The bottom line here is that every manufacturer makes a .223 and they are all really good. It's a great round and fun to shoot. And it works.

CZ 527 Varminter in .223 or .204

.223

yet another lover of the .223.....look to the Howa for thrifty and accurate shooting!

It is hard to wring out all the accuracy your rifle is capable of without handloading. So, don't expect inexpensive ammo to give you accuracy. Plan on buying best qualty target loads that you rifle likes. If .223 decide on barrel twist if you want to shoot heavy bullets at distance. I recommend a best grade .22-250 for your application. I think you will be happier in the long run.

Anyone who suggests anything other than a 223 as their first recommendation should be put on your ignore list.

if you THINK you need more than a 223, you probably need a 243win/6mmRem.

If you THINK you need bullets heavier than 55gr in a 22bore you definatly need a 6mm of some sort.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
yet another lover of the .223.....look to the Howa for thrifty and accurate shooting!

Stevens 200 if you are just plain cheap, but an excellent shooting rifle esp. for the money. FS

Any person ignorant enough to make an Allan DeGroot comment has no experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Anyone who suggests anything other than a 223 as their first recommendation should be put on your ignore list.

if you THINK you need more than a 223, you probably need a 243win/6mmRem.

If you THINK you need bullets heavier than 55gr in a 22bore you definatly need a 6mm of some sort.

+1, and I don't even own a .223!

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Any person ignorant enough to make an Allan DeGroot comment has no experience.

So tell us , hotshot, what qualifies as an "Allan DeGroot comment"?

That is an intelligent post........Buy a .223 then comment.

I hate to say it because I love my 223, but not for 300 yard shots.
250 and in it is the berries, after that and yes I would also opt for my 22-250.
It is a LOT more of what you need and want for 250 yards plus.

The .223 Remington is the way to go for what you are doing! It will amaze you at what it will do in a varmint field. But it would relegated to a backseat position if the 222MAG had functioned as well in the AR platforms way back when! Then we would all be shooting 222Mags instead of 223. I shoot both so I am well aware of the positives and negatives of either! I also shoot a 6x47 and 204 so I know of the inherrent capabilities of the 222Mag case design. Now someone is going to comment on the 6x45 I am sure!! GHD

Thanks for the facts bucko. Yes, God has no use for a fool!

Hello again GHD. I have come to use a .222 AI quite a bit and love it. For a person that does not handload he will not find accuracy in cheap .223 ammo. And, if he wants more distance as his experiece increases the .223 we leave him hanging especially on coyotes. The .22-250 was at one tme a benchrest competitior, I don't have to tell you that. The .22-250 is bc300winguy's best bet.

craigster:

An Allan DeGroot comment is exaclty like a craigster comment. Webster dictionary defines them both as unfounded uninformed statements made by BMSMF's.

Buliwyf

UMMMM, have had a 223 for many years......
Now I have a 22br......
Degroot that, anyone..........

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
craigster:

An Allan DeGroot comment is exaclty like a craigster comment. Webster dictionary defines them both as unfounded uninformed statements made by BMSMF's.

Buliwyf

I almost took Allan's advise and put you on ignore, but your pompous drivel is quite entertaining. Keep up the good work. Allen Day, Scott S, and Axel would be proud. BTW, IJLYSMSAA. PCFAM.

Bulywif, Your thoughts on the 22-250 are not falling on deaf eyesight(play on 'falling on deaf ears' since we are reading these posts! ) The 22-250 is without a doubt, one of ballisticdoms finest creations. It accomplished with less powder what the 220 Swift had been capable of with more inherrent accuracy!(bet I'll generate some 220 Swift lovers' hatemail with that comment!!) Then ther was the R&D of Remington Company trying to find a small arms chambering to function in the then new AR type stuff..........hence the 222Mag and 223. We all know how that ended up..............enough of history! If someone is shooting a 223 or 22-250 and THEY ARE NOT RELOADERS, they would be well advised to go to their local gunshop, Wal-Mart or whatever and purchase (if available, .223 probably won't be) some of the white box Winchester USA 40 rounds to a box loadings of the 45 grain HP ammo. I have yet to encounter a 223 or 22-250 that doesn't shoot this stuff reasonbly well. I once had a .223 XP that I refused to reloadfor because I could buy this stuff for 12.95/40 and was so pleased withthe accurracy! 22-250 used to cost me 14.95/40 and I used it to season barrels and have some brass. GHD

bc300winguy wants the best bang for his buck. in the 22 cal. and does not reload. There is only 2 choices First...find cheap 22-250 loaded ammo. or use the 223 and keep the shots to 250 or less, crows are small at 250 yards! and cheap ammo is great at 100 yards but crows will laugh at you.

Wow looks like 223 is the winner. Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by bc300winguy:
Wow looks like 223 is the winner. Thanks

bc300winguy,
If your not going to reload and your shooting will be strictly 200-250 yard varmint/crow and no benchrest/target shooting I have a couple of thoughts.
IF you go the .223 route read up on barrel twists. At 100 to 150 yards my Savage VLP .223 single shot Benchrest dedicated use 13 lb. gun with very stout rests will consistantly give under 1" groups with a 1" in 9" twist barrel using factory New Black Hills 52gr. Match HPs @ $37.99 per 50 rounds @ 3320 fps.At grester distances the effects of light bullet and any wind make accuracy less. You can shoot up to 69 gr. with the 1 in 9 but at greater distances you may want to consider a 1" in 8" so you can use 73 to 77 gn. bullets. Above that consider a 1" in 7.5" for up to 105VLDs. The heavier the bullet the slower it's speed but the wind bucking advantage is greater. Ie. you need to dial in a .223 to appraoch the .22-250 past 250 yards. The .204 and .22-250 are tougher on barrel life and will burn out a barrel quicker.
I suggest you go on "U-Tube" and search for Long distance .223 or 22-250 videos. I have seen fairly consistant .223 hits on steel 11" X 13" targets at 850 yards!! That is the exception though with very good equiptment, proper twist barrel and handloads with a learned shooter that worked up to that distance and accuracy.
For nothing but small size game targets I would suggest the 22-250 for its flat trajectory, speed, Foot lbs. at distance, light recoil etc. For lesser distances you can't beat the .223 if ordered properly for your intended shooting requirements. The .223 in 40gr. is a very fast round, not at fast as the 22-250 though. The .223 offers far more bullets weights but you need the correct twist rate to make the rounds perform as intended.
If you live near the wide open spaces and have dog towns nearby and you know that that is your main desire you can go farther out with the .243. There is no substitute for power for really long range and you could use it for white tail as well. For target shooting on the cheap you can't beat the venerable .22lr of 22 mag. which is also a good 200-250 yard round and very inexpensive to shoot.
Just some more thoughts for you.....

Pete K.

bc

Best bang for the buck, here are my SPECIFIC recommendations.

Buy the Remington ARMS model 700 223 that you like the best.

Mount a Leupold 4.5-14 scope with Target Knobs.
The 4.5 power is good for coyotes, etc up close and from there to 14X is good for the small stuff.

Get a Harris Bipod.

Test Black Hills ammo starting with 55 gr up through 69 gr [I think most if not all Remington bbls are 1 in 12 twist].

ick the load that shoots the best and buy several thousand of them.

Then go hunt.

After 7 to 10,000 rounds your barrel will be worn out. Rebarrel with a 1 in 9 or 1 in 8 twist and retest for the best ammo up to 75gr bullet.

The 223 is a 250 yard varmint gun all the time, 300 pretty regular, and I have hit a "few" of them to @450 yards.

I said varmint, not target, as I have shot an AR15 in NRA 600 yard matches quite a bit.

With the above equiment you cannot go wrong.

It's not that I have anything against the 22-250, IN ADDITION TO a 223, but "Instead of"?

I was recently asked (in person) by a friend who's a long time 22-250 shooter why I prefered the 223.

I told him, your own words in the field, he said "what?"

Seriously Steve, you don't recall bitching about barrel mirage
after your second shot?

The look of dawning realization overcomming personal stupidity was priceless....

As for the various "Fast twist" 22's?
When I actually meet someone in person willing to admit that they have one without them acting like they are admiting to having an STD....

Heavy bullets won't turn a 223 or a 22-250 into a 243Win
any more than heavier bullets in faster twists have turned the 5.56x45NATO into an anti-personel round.



AD

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
yet another lover of the .223.....look to the Howa for thrifty and accurate shooting!

Yep, based on some positive comments by guys who own and shoot Vanguards, I found one in 223 with a short barrel, for easy lugging around. It came glass bedded at the factory, barrel free floating, and best of all it shoots, like three shots at 100 yards in a 3/8" group for the load it likes.
The price is right too.
Vanguards and Howas are the same rifle.

Don

Hmmmmmmmmm

I've got two fast twist 22's and they are the best thing since sliced bread.......kill 'roos way better and further out than the slow twist things.

One is a 22-243 and the other is a 22-06......

I shoot 69 Nosler CC out of the 22-243 and 80's out of the 22-06.......but it in particular will shoot anything, the most unfussy round I've ever tried

.223 Stevens 200. Start reloading .223, it's fun and will save you some $$$$$$$$

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
.223 Stevens 200. Start reloading .223, it's fun and will save you some $$$$$$$$

I have, shoot and love both, but for your needs I would definitely go with the 223. Lou

The 223 would work fine for what you described. I shoot a remington xr-100 223 with hdy 40gr vmaxs. I have taken groundhogs at well over 400 yds. my best at 494. Not much in the wind though.

223 is the last cartridge I would reload for. I get one hole groups out of my $300 Stevens with several brands of inexpensive factory loads. At 200 yards I'm close to 100% on groundhogs using a bipod. Past 250 wind gets me some though. I'd recommend a 223 as well.

.223

but I would go with a 20" bull barrel AR such as a Rock River varmint.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
bc

Best bang for the buck, here are my SPECIFIC recommendations.

Buy the Remington ARMS model 700 223 that you like the best.

Mount a Leupold 4.5-14 scope with Target Knobs.
The 4.5 power is good for coyotes, etc up close and from there to 14X is good for the small stuff.

Get a Harris Bipod.

Test Black Hills ammo starting with 55 gr up through 69 gr [I think most if not all Remington bbls are 1 in 12 twist].

ick the load that shoots the best and buy several thousand of them.

Then go hunt.

After 7 to 10,000 rounds your barrel will be worn out. Rebarrel with a 1 in 9 or 1 in 8 twist and retest for the best ammo up to 75gr bullet.

The 223 is a 250 yard varmint gun all the time, 300 pretty regular, and I have hit a "few" of them to @450 yards.

I said varmint, not target, as I have shot an AR15 in NRA 600 yard matches quite a bit.

With the above equiment you cannot go wrong.

Best Advice I've heard in a LOOOOONG time!!!!

Tikka T3's and CZ 527's are great values. Spend any extra money on good optics and ammunition. Consider handloading; it increases the amount of shooting you can do and adds to the enjoyment.