Remington claims unrivled out of the box accuracy on it's model 700 BDLs. What do they call accurate? I inherited a 700 BDL in .17 rem. that is over thirty years old and it is pin- point. I would like to get one in the more economical .223 rem., but it is quite the investment for me. I like the open sights and don't intend to use a scope, is the gun as accurate as it sounds? "Out of the box"?

I haven't bought one in years.....at one time it was a superb "out-of-box" accurate firearm.....and likely still is.

Today, however if I wanted unrivaled "out-of-box" accuracy it goes to Savage.

quote:

Originally posted by Arctic Gun:
Remington claims unrivled out of the box accuracy on it's model 700 BDLs. What do they call accurate? I inherited a 700 BDL in .17 rem. that is over thirty years old and it is pin- point. I would like to get one in the more economical .223 rem., but it is quite the investment for me. I like the open sights and don't intend to use a scope, is the gun as accurate as it sounds? "Out of the box"?

According to Remington any of their rifles made since the mid 1980’s any rifle that shoots groups of 4†or better is within company standards. If Remington considers 4†groups as being accurate out of the box then what do they consider questionable accuracy? Any bullet that stays on a 36†paper target @ 100 yards. Lawdog

I wouldn't worry about it. I've had good results with both of my Rem 700s out of the box. The 22-250 VLS can do .5 groups all day with an occasional one holer and the 300 win mag BDL can do .5 -.75 groups with the right load. All I did was lighten the trigger, nothing else. Both rifles are post-2002 rifles and wouldn't heistate to buy another.

never met a rem700 I couldn't get to 3/4moa or better out of the box. My heavy barreled rigs are 1/2moa with the preferred factory ammo.

I have heard the 4" thing too,..but for some reason I have not any of those rifles personaly.

I don't know about the current Remingtons. I've had some great ones in the past. My VLS in 6mm Rem. will easily shoot .4" (5 at 100yds.) however my last one, a Remington BDL in .25-06Rem. will not do better that 1 1/3" which I consider ridiculous considering it's been glass bedded, the barrel floated and trigger adjustments made, $250. of post purchase costs. To Remington that's acceptable accuracy, to me it isn't even close. I'm laying off of Remington for a while. There's simply too many stinkers coming out of that plant lately. Just one guys opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I can say I have never owned one that WOULD NOT shoot under an inch at 100 yards.

I have found most of them dont fit me to well and I feel more recoil with them.

When you adjust the triggers they shoot very well.

quote:

Originally posted by Arctic Gun:
I like the open sights and don't intend to use a scope, is the gun as accurate as it sounds? "Out of the box"?

If you are shooting strictly irons, you will never maximize your rifle's accuracy potential. Nor will you likely ever notice a meaningful difference in rifles for practical field use.

Ruger people told me directly over the phone that their stand ard of accuracy was 1.5" at 50 yards.....and that's with their #1 rifle in varmint barrel.

This is not to be confused with saying that's what they shoot.....we all know they shoot better than that....it's what they adjust to when you return it to them for repair. If they test it and it shoots 1.5" at 50 yards, they return it to you.

Remington too has their standards.....

It's maybe unfortunate but most of us have resigned ourselves to the fact that when we buy a production rifle it needs to be tweaked more or less.....that what we bought was accuracy potential and it's up to us to bring it out. It might be there out of the box but if it's not we need to know how to do it.

quote:

It's maybe unfortunate but most of us have resigned ourselves to the fact that when we buy a production rifle it needs to be tweaked more or less.....that what we bought was accuracy potential and it's up to us to bring it out. It might be there out of the box but if it's not we need to know how to do it.

Vapodog, that was deep man. Well put. Seriously, well put.

quote:

Originally posted by Cal Sibley:
I don't know about the current Remingtons. I've had some great ones in the past. My VLS in 6mm Rem. will easily shoot .4" (5 at 100yds.) however my last one, a Remington BDL in .25-06Rem. will not do better that 1 1/3" which I consider ridiculous considering it's been glass bedded, the barrel floated and trigger adjustments made, $250. of post purchase costs. To Remington that's acceptable accuracy, to me it isn't even close. I'm laying off of Remington for a while. There's simply too many stinkers coming out of that plant lately. Just one guys opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Just out of curiosity, Cal, what are you going to attempt with a .25/06 for which that kind of accuracy is not acceptable? That's "minute of deer" to at least 350 yards. Although with the work that you've had done it would seem that there should be more accuracy available.

Hello Dougw,

I do most of my shootig nowadays at the range and on woodchuck. I had wanted a .25-06 most of my life and finally got around to using it. I do a lot of load testing and can usually get my groups down to some really good sizes, but this rifle seems to defy that. Oh, it's good enough for deer, but I might fire 5 shots a year at deer and 300 at the range. It's a sore spot with me as most of my rifles are Remington, and they've always responded well. I've heard a lot of simiar complaints recently about Remington, but had never experienced it first hand. I'll be more careful from here on out. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

quote:

.25-06Rem. will not do better that 1 1/3"

I'd add that is unacceptable for varmint shooting, particularly at ranges where the .25-06 is likely to be employed.

I sold a rem vssf 22/250 which would shoot factory win 50 gr supreme ammo in the .2's

I then bought two more heavy rem's,

a .243 which shoots 1/2 moa and a pss .300 RUM which for some reason likes hot loads and shhots them under 1/2 moa and safer loads (which I use at the 1/2 moa mark)

I say for heavy barrelled varmint guns you would be hard pressed to beat them.

I here heaps of American shooting prasing savages, but in Australia not many people own them, and I have never seen one on the shelf at my local gun store.

quote:

Originally posted by DigitalDan:

quote:

.25-06Rem. will not do better that 1 1/3"

I'd add that is unacceptable for varmint shooting, particularly at ranges where the .25-06 is likely to be employed.

I adopted a policy of 1 1/4" as a standard many years ago for a hunting rifle and 7/8" as a varmint rifle.

I glass bed the action and free float the barrel. I buy three brands of bullets known to be good for the task and use three different powders with each of the bullets.

FWIW the three bullets for hunting rifles are Hornady interlocks, swift A-Frames and Northforks and the three bullets for varminting I use are Hornady's V-Max, Nosler's BTs and Speer's TNTs.

I load one 5-shot group with each bullet and one powder and go to the range to test them.

Of the best grouping bullet with that powder I then use that bullet with three powders and again go to the range. Of the best group I then adjust seating depth and amount of powder until the standard is reached.

Normally the standard is reached fairly quickly and when I don't get there I trade the gun off. One can screw around for ever if he don't set a standard and live with it.

Using this procedure I've only had one gun in many years not make the grade......a M-70 .300 H&H that I just couldn't get to shoot.

I've traded far more rifles for poor feeding and other atrocities than accuracy.

This .25-06 might just be one of those problem guns that will be well received by someone else.

Ya just got to take a stand, do the basics and make up your mind.

I just bought a 300 RUM and the first three rounds I fired grouped into 3/4" at 200 yds. Can't ask for more than that with a new rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
never met a rem700 I couldn't get to 3/4moa or better out of the box. My heavy barreled rigs are 1/2moa with the preferred factory ammo.

Well I have! After getting 1/2" groups @ 100yds from a M700 Mountain Rifle DM in 7mm08, (out of the box w/Federal Premium 140gr BTs) I purchased the simlar rifle in .280 Rem.

The .280 was very consistant. No matter what the load, it would shoot 2 1/2" to 3" groups @ 100yds. I did some trigger adjustment, glass bedded the action with the first 3" of barrel ahead of the chamber and free floated the barrel. Even "load work" did not improved things significantly.

I finally made some chamber casts and was amazed to see the rifling on one side of the throat come all the way back to the case potion of the chamber! Further investigation revealed that the chamber was .004" off center.

When I called a factory authorized gunsmith I was told that "it wouldn't affect accuracy.

I traded it for a M700CDL in 280 Rem and it would shoot just over 1" out of the box.

Aluminum pillar bedding, a Timney trigger, a glass bedding/free floating job similar to what I had tried on the Mountain rifle brought groups under 1/2".

The point is, M700s can be very accurate "out of the box", but it is "luck of the draw" anymore.

The quality of fit and finish goes down with every one I buy. If the things that one can see are going "downhill", what about the things one can't see?

Cal
Out of curiousity, what weight bullets are you
shooting? I have one 25-06 that likes the heavier bullets, bur alot of them prefer 100Gr.
& down. I know one gunsmith that will test the
100 Bal. Tip first, because most 25's will shoot it.

Hello Rod,

So far I've tried Sierra 75gr. HP, Nosler 85gr. Bal.Tip, Speer 87gr. SP (moly), Sierra 90gr. HPBT, Nosler 100gr. Bal.Tip, Nosler 115gr. Bal Tip, Speer 120gr. SP and Sierra 120gr. HPBT, plus Remington factory loads in 100 and 120gr. There's not a lot I haven't tried. I'm rather experienced with load development but am stumped with this one. Possibly I just have a bum barrel. Usually it's not too difficult to make Remingtons shoot well. I'll keep trying but suspect it's on the way out the door. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I sure see what you mean! Usually the 100 BT will shoot & you tried alot of good bullets. It
looks like a barrel problem is likely & you
could have a off-centered chamber as my brother's Sendero had. The gunsmith took this out when he chambered this rifle & mine to 25-06AI.