I've noticed a phenomenon recently when firing some old 70 grain Speer .228's out of a .22 High Power. Radiating out from some of the bullet holes is a dark streak that looks like the tail of a comet, about 3/8" long. Never in 40 years of shooting have I seen anything like it. The holes on which it appears are within the group so it's not flying weird. Velocities are pretty tame, 2600 fps, so I'm sure the lead core isn't melting in flight. Happens on about 25% of the bullet holes. Strange. Any insight?

check your bore's diameter then check your grooves diameter.
you might not have a 228 bbl.
and you are cutting through the jacket.
the first thing you check before shooting cast boolits is the groove diameter by slugging the bbl, then the throat shape [wear] and matching those measurements with your boolits size and shape.
when the oft given advice of shooting a larger than groove diameter boolit is given it is meant to cover over sized nominal diameter bbls.
your bbl might be 224 [re-bbl] or an undersized 226 [factory] it's not uncommon for bbl's to not all be the size they are s'posed to be.
in fact most 9mm [355] bbl's are truly 357 or 358.
and many older colt target 38 bbls are 355 or 356.

Nope, barrel is a true .228" I slugged it back when I started shooting cast bullets in it. Plus, I thoroughly cleaned it before going back to jacketed. The bore is pristine with no roughness whatsoever.

If you did not fire all the rounds may think about pulling a bullet. I had some 351 wsl ammo that were barely making it out the barrel. When pulling bullets found they were glued in with some kind of black adhesive. Just wondering whether your ammo had similar thus causing the marks.

The bullet cores are melting and what is on the target is actually a molten spray of lead. I have observed this in my own 22 Hi-Power in the heat of July, and could actually duplicate it at will. I loaded some old thin jacketed 32-40 bullets in an 8mm once. Same thing. When Chas. Newton produced his heat insulated bullets with the wire point in 1914, he used a thin layer of paper to insulate the core from the jacket to avoid this problem.

I see comet tails quite often with 22 caliber bullets of certain makes and types.It is gray and looks like lead, and probably is.The only exposed lead is the tip. One guess is it's disintergration when tip contacts target and centrifugal force spins it off.
This is difference then the comet tails that are the jackets flying apart. Those bullets don't go much farther and the afore mentioned go out hundreds of yards. roger

Hmmm. Interesting that a core could melt at such sedate levels of performance. After all they're only going at .22 Hornet velocities, and were loaded a week ago. But what y'all are saying makes sense. I think I'll sectiona sample of this bullet and see just how thick the jacket is. Krag1902, what bullet was giving you the same effect?

There is a relatively "easy" way to verify, or disprove, the melting Lead Theory.

Load 5 with the Lead Tips removed. Just grasp the Lead with a pair of Pliers and give it a small Twist. Shoot them and see if you still have the streaks.

I got the same thing on MAS 7.5x54 at 50yrds useing 168gr Sierra HPBT and RL 15. With this bullet it could not have been lead. I think that it is caused by the BT of the bullet pulling burnt powder gas with it. The trail was 2" long.

quote:

Originally posted by Fat_Albert:
I got the same thing on MAS 7.5x54 at 50yrds useing 168gr Sierra HPBT and RL 15. With this bullet it could not have been lead. I think that it is caused by the BT of the bullet pulling burnt powder gas with it. The trail was 2" long.

Interesting to be sure. The boat tail on a bullet,However, is intended to eradicate the vacuum to the rear of the bullet.
If it is the powder, and it well may be, why the spiral effect?
I'm not putting a whole lot of stock in my lead yip idea either but now after seeing this all these years I'd like to know the cause. Where is No Ricochet when you need him? roger

How far north Fat Albert?

gnoahhh,
In my 22 Hi-Power, I think I was using the older Speer 70 grain round nose.

Those "comet tails" on the target paper have been documented in shooting literature for over 70 years; in fact the phrase "comet tail" is often the exact description used. These are indeed caused by lead spray emanating from cuts in the jacket make by the rifling (not out of the nose of the bullet). Friction in the bore (not in flight) heats the lead to melting, and a weak jacket is cut by sharp rifling letting the lead leak out.

It does seem odd that the core gets hot enough to melt in the mundane .22 HP, but if alloyed with enough tin etc. the core's melting temperature is a lot lower than pure lead, making melting easier. This effect usually happens in higher intensity cartridges like the .22-250 and light, thinly jacketed bullets.


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aww , maybe that is where the term "shooting the sh*t" came from...

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
Those "comet tails" on the target paper have been documented in shooting literature for over 70 years; in fact the phrase "comet tail" is often the exact description used. These are indeed caused by lead spray emanating from cuts in the jacket make by the rifling (not out of the nose of the bullet). Friction in the bore (not in flight) heats the lead to melting, and a weak jacket is cut by sharp rifling letting the lead leak out.

It does seem odd that the core gets hot enough to melt in the mundane .22 HP, but if alloyed with enough tin etc. the core's melting temperature is a lot lower than pure lead, making melting easier. This effect usually happens in higher intensity cartridges like the .22-250 and light, thinly jacketed bullets.


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Thank you, Nimrod. That bit of information had escaped me all my life. Sincerely appreciate it. roger

"Comet tails", "Bluestreakers", funny grey-blue tags on targets, bullets not reaching the targets are all well documented as TX Nimrod stated...but usually from very high velocity calibers using light weight bullets meant for blowing up varmints.

I've run into this phenomenon many times over the years always with 22 cals like my 22-250, 220 Swifts and 22-243's, always with 50 gr and lighter bullets and well over standard velocities...not even in my 17 Rem at even higher velos than I could get in the 22-243.

I even made a few bucks at the range betting...I would bet a shooter couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and totally miss the target. I would shot one round to show the rifle was sighted in properly then substitute a "hotrock", and the shooter get a bluestreak to about halfway to the taget and a puff of grey smoke.

The old discontinued Nosler 50 gr Solid Base bullets were the only ones that would survive the velocities I was loading to in the first 22-243 I built...no other brand would stay together...I used 50 gr Speer TNT's and Sierra's to get the blowups.

Once in a while the bullet would make it almost to the targer, maybe a few ft or inches in front, before blowing up and would leave a grey puff mark on the target of various sizes or a shotgun pattern of tiny holes and rips from the guilding metal cup.

It always caused a stir.

Have only seen the "scuff" marks on targets from the smeared lead tips for a long time. Bullets are constructed much better now, or maybe I got over the magnumitis...I don't push those insane velo's anymore.

I think it is a combination of the core melting and bullet spin, but there probably is much more to it than a simple explaination.

But it does surprize you the first few times, not that I'm any genius...I was expecting it in my case because of the article I read that caused me to do the 22-243 Middlested in the first place...I just HAD to have something that would do that...for bragging rights...Hahahahahah

Luck

I would say you need more fiber. Oops...sorry, I thought the title of the thread was "odd smears on toilet paper." My mistake...

I have seen this quite a bit when checking an initial alignment at 25 yards. I think it is the bullet nose and it looks exactly like a comet tail. I have also seen it at 100 yards a few times.

I have had it happen with a few cast bullets but mostly with jacketed.

bartsche: I live were they buried Roy and Dale but stuffed Trigger. To all the rest; How am I getting lead from a solid base bullet with a HP that has an opening the size of a pin and going 2300fps. Could some one show me a bullet that has been cut to the core by the rifleing? The rifleing would need to be 0.020"deep. German miltary Dr. in WW2 said that they could tell if a German GI was shot by a 150FB or 172grBT because the BT sucks air into the body cavity and caused a lot more damage. The Germans first thought that the Americans were useing SP bullets.