I have the poll going on another thread asking about the 223 vs 22/250 in a short barrel light gun. I like the looks and specification of the CZ527 M1 American, 3 shot flush magazine, wood stock and 5.8 pounds with 20 in barrel in 223. Pls pardon the long winded into.

I like loading my first shot directly in the chamber to protect the bullet nose. The CZ 527 is control feed. Can I still load single shot for all my shooting? I would expect the extractor to take a beating if it even worked at all. How are you all shooting? Do you just feed from the magazine and let the bullets slide up the feed ramp?

This is the opposite of the Dangerous Game forum where control feed is a very desirable feature, but for best accuracy, I think manual single loading is best.

If it is a true controlled feed, the answer is no. However many of the controlled feed bolts have a bevel ground in the extractor so that a single round can be chambered and the extractor will slip over the rim.
It should tell you in your paperwork or on their web site.

If you go the the CZ website, you can download the owners manual for the 527. It says:

"Note: Loading is also possible for single cartridges by directly inserting into the chamber without the use of a magazine."

Also, FWIW, there has been quite extensive research confirming that slight damage to a bullet's nose has little or no impact on accuracy.

thank you olarmy.

I've often wondered what the cartridge ramp does to concentricity as the shell is pushed into the chamber with upward pressure from the magazine spring. The bullet is pushed into the ramp which forces the bullet nose upward but the wings on a magazine are holding the case.

?thoughts?

It would be a waste of time, load them inthe mag and feed them in. No measureable diff. in accuracy.

I'll do a concentricity test on a loaded round.

Check it after it has been chambered from the magazine and will report back.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I've often wondered what the cartridge ramp does to concentricity as the shell is pushed into the chamber with upward pressure from the magazine spring. The bullet is pushed into the ramp which forces the bullet nose upward but the wings on a magazine are holding the case.

?thoughts?

Nothing!..? I often worried about this to the point I tested all my rifles to see if any deformation was going on behind closed doors (bolts). Of course all makes chamber a bit different but as far as I could see on the extracted round (s), no significant signs of deformation were found. I think that if you were to get nuts and crank a round in with auto type speed, you might do some damage?

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I've often wondered what the cartridge ramp does to concentricity as the shell is pushed into the chamber with upward pressure from the magazine spring. The bullet is pushed into the ramp which forces the bullet nose upward but the wings on a magazine are holding the case.

?thoughts?

Nothing!..? I often worried about this to the point I tested all my rifles to see if any deformation was going on behind closed doors (bolts). Of course all makes chamber a bit different but as far as I could see on the extracted round (s), no significant signs of deformation were found. I think that if you were to get nuts and crank a round in with auto type speed, you might do some damage?

I think there was a Danish machine gun, the Madsen, that bent each round on its way to the chamber...

The ejector has more influence on making a round non-concentric with the bore than any effect of feeding.

A sporting arm like a CZ isn't accurate enough for it to show any difference on paper anyway.

Sounds like your question about single loading has been answered. As to your query about 223 vs 22-250 in a 20 inch, I'd say 223. I'm sure the 22-250 will still be faster, but you'd be losing a lot of the advantage with a short barrel, I would think, so might as well go with the smaller case in the first place if you're not going to get full use of that extra powder anyway. IMO.

I have settled on the 223, this forum has been very helpful on that decision.

I guess single feed should not matter if the magazine and follower are setup right. Old habits die hard, so I will keep doing what I do

quote:

, FWIW, there has been quite extensive research confirming that slight damage to a bullet's nose has little or no impact on accuracy.

That's the technically correct answer to normal questions about point deformation. What it really means is, they found NO difference in accuracy due to point defects. They add the "little or no" comment because some guy in Upper Slobovia will immediately protest that his cousin once knew a guy whose neighbor swore he once added 1/8" MOA to his groups from nose dents.

Don't take any examples of obscure machine guns bending ammo into your consideratons of the value of magazine feeding in your CZ bolt rifle.

My thought isn't about denting the nose of a bullet. I haven't done the test yet, but I would think that feeding from the magazine would effect the concentricity of the bullet in the case slightly.

If Hornady makes a conentricity gage that also corrects non-concentric rounds by pushing on the bullet slightly, it follows that when the bolt pushes a round toward the chamber, ramming it into the loading ramp while the magazine wings still are holding the case down into the magazine, then the bullet is forced upward bending or screwing up concentricity of the bullet in the case.

I would say that this has far greater effect on accuracy than a deformed bullet nose....

If you find that it works right for you stick with it. I haven't noticed a difference in group size from the first round to the last round differing that much for me.