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One of Us |
Also, I have a Anschütz Hornet Match rifle, made 1977. I bought it befor a few years. It looked good, nearly new condition. But after mounting a used scope ( tested by Zeiss), the rifle don´t bring groups better 1,75" - 2", with handloads and factory ammo. Now I have the idea to change the barrel to a new heavy Varmint Lothar Walther, with 24". How accurate is the .22Hornet? Is a barrel change usuful and profitable? Thanks, Martin | ||
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Two question: What is the twist rate of the barrel? What diameter bullets are you using? .223 or .224? | |||
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while good results are had with the hornet, enough unexplained flyers exist. long ago the K hornet was invented with got rid of the flyers. its a cheap conversion (last one cost me about $35) fireform standard hornets make the brass. i'd sure do that before rebarreling | |||
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Hornets can be tempremental. There are too many variables to go into in a single post, but certain reloading methods can improve your chances of good accuracy from a Hornet. I would do a bit more experimentation before going to the expense of mounting a new barrel. | |||
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I mean it must be a 16" twist. And I loaded .224" bullets. The K-Hornet is a good idea, but this round is not CIP proofed and so the German proof houses will make trouble.  And, the Hornet is listed in my gun permit. A change of the round will be difficult. The German bureaucracy isn´t flexible enought.
Yes, but I tested bullet weights between 40grs. and 53grs. V-Max, soft points and HP. N110, Lil´gun, IMR4198. And every factory ammo I could get in my hands. I know the Hornet isn´t a BR-round. But I will satisfied with constant 1" groups at 100m. Martin | |||
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Small pistol primers, and Lilgun powder, has made a shooter out of many Hornets. Also, I use a Lee Collet Die to neck size only. When my kids were younger and they wanted to go to the range to shoot pennies at 100yds, they would ask for the Hornet, a Ruger M77 sporter. | |||
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I had exactly the frustrating total lack of accuracy you've just experienced. FINALLY, on I don't recall who's advice (a local), I tried filling the Hornet case completely to the top with AA 1680 and compressing the cheapest non-premium 40 grain Sierra SPs in on top of it. Accuracy instantly went to 1/2 MOA and stayed there. So I tried the same trick in the K-Hornet and it works there too. There may be other loads as consistently good, but if so, I've never seen them with my own eyes. This trick works with all four of the Hornets I have at the moment. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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The first response by lal is key to starting the tuning process. Some have barrels for the .223"dia while others a .224" and then twist rate will be next. Finally, try flat based bullets. My Uncle has a few in .22 Hornet and K-Hornet and has to load different ammo to make them shoot. I believe he said he's using at least three different recipe's for I think five different rifles. Nate | |||
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Years ago I bought a used #3 Ruger in 22 Hornet at a gunshow.. came with a box of handloads, scope mounts and rings.. first few shots bullets were printing sideways on paper.. the previous owner had gotten a good deal on some 55 gr fmj bullets..I did my research and loaded some 45 gr. bullets.. that did the trick.. | |||
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BBF, I had a complete about face in accuracy in my Hornet just by switching from standard rifle primers to Rem 6 1/2 primers. They are less powerful than a standard primer. I personally didn't have as much luck with pistol primers, but I know other folks that have. Try a less powerful primer, and go back to the Lil-Gun powder. Use a compressed load, I'm using 12.5 grs and some are using 13.0 grs. Make sure your powder charges are exactly the same. Very small case capacity. Keep your weights to +/- .1 grs or less if you can. Si tantum EGO eram dimidium ut bonus ut EGO memor | |||
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Go smaller still. The best accuracy in mine was with the 35 gr Hornady V-Max. I've got some 30 gr Bergers loaded to try. And definitely try small pistol primers. There's just not enough powder to need more. LWD | |||
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Yeah, welcome to the "wonderful" and "predictable" world of Hornet reloading.... I have personally pretty much given up on the Hornet, it is just more trouble than it is worth. After all, the .222 Rem is just soooo sweet! That said, the German DJV (?) match competitors seem to be THE experts with respect to the Hornet. Try to contact our very own "Gerry", who seems to shoot with that crowd. I would personally be doubtful about changing a Hornet barrel. The Hornet has got to be the one centerfire caliber that hardly ever shoots out a barrel. However, cleaning the barrel down to bare metal and having the crown examined by a good smith is never wrong. The issue of .223 or .224 cal bullets would seem worth exploring. In particular if the rifle is as old as you state. One problem with the Hornet also seems to be that the thin case material gives you very varying neck tension. If this is an issue, sometimes a (Lee Factory) crimp may help even things out a bit. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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I have two Hornets and a K-Hornet and all shoot best with AA-1680 (which is apparently the same spec powder as WW-680). This powder yields much more consistent velocities than Lil Gun. I discount the .223 vs. .224 bore argument. There is typically more variation than .001" in many other supposedly standardized calibers. I have found no difference between how bullets of either nominal diameter perform in bores of either nominal diameter. Although different bullets can and do make a big difference in accuracy, it is not due to a .001" difference in diameter. Much ado about nothing, in my opinion. Some Hornet brass is painfully thin at the neck/mouth, thus provides both rather low and somewhat erratic bullet pull. Regular Remington brass is an offender in this category. On the other hand, Remington nickel plated brass is somewhat thicker (though perhaps only by the thickness of the nickel plating) and I get some of my most consistent groups from Rem nickel. I have not used any of the European brands of Hornet brass, so can't comment. One poster suggested using the Lee Factory Crimper. I generally don't like using a crimp, but in the case of the Hornet with thin brass, the more consistent pull force that the crimp results in may very well contribute to accuracy. As an alternative to using a crimp, I suggest using brass with thicker necks and sizing it in a Lee Collet die with the mandrel honed down by about .002" to ensure a tighter fit of the bullet. By the way, I reamed out the shoulder of my Lee Collet die to allow it to accept K-Hornets. I still use it for the regular Hornet, however. This results in sizing only about the upper two-thirds of the Hornet neck, leaving a bit of a secondary shoulder. This secondary shoulder provides a glove-tight fit in the chamber, which I can't credit with a huge accuracy benefit, but it certainly is more conducive to good accuracy than a case that rattles around in the chamber. | |||
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Stonecreek, I believe you're correct. I have a fairly new CZ Hornet and I guarantee you it doesn't have a .224 groove. I shoot cast from it so slugged the bore and groove and I was shocked that a modern Hornet would have such tight dimensions. By the way it shoots really great with the .224 jacketed bullets and I found a nice cast bullet that shoots very well from it too. | |||
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PM Bailey Bradshaw he has one he built that will drive nails. I have the pleasure of shooting it and it's great!!!! | |||
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| One of Us |
I have an Anchutz 1730 and a Kimber 82 both in 22 hornet. Both shoot well under an inch with Win cases, 13.2 lil gun, Fed sm pistol primers and 40 grain Berger HPs. I have tried 40 sierra BK and Hor Vmax and get similar results, except they are too long to fit in the clips, so I go withthe Berger HPs. NRA Patron member | |||
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I have reworked two 22 Hornets in recent months. The first was a Ruger 77/22 hornet that the owner claimed had no less than 10,000 rounds through it. I know he has been shooting the gun for years and it could be true. I thoroughly cleaned the BBL, set it back a couple threads and rechambered to get a fresh throat, recrowned it, and lapped the bore a little. Have talke to him several times since then and he says its shooting as well as it ever had which was 1/2 MOA. The other was re-lining and old 1885 Win and reblueing it. I just got picks of the gun after the owner got the wood and all back together and shot it.   Of course noone is happy with that flier, but then that can be worked out as he tweaks his load a bit. I believe the Hornet is best suited to 35ish grian bullets do to twist rate constraints, so perhaps start there. H110 is a great powder for this littl cartridge. | |||
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Big Bore Fan, before you give up it just might be worth your effort to give this load a try: RWS Case Rem 6 1/2 Primer 13- gr Lil Gun 35- gr Horndady V-Max Lee Fact Crimp Die This load shoots very good in an older Anschutz Match . . . if there are variances in speed it is of no concern to me, shoots under MOA consistently, only Chrono'd once and they run 2900fps and change, Waidmannsheil, Dom. -------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------- | |||
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I agree 100% with Slowpoke & Stonie. The above 2 statements hold fairly true IMO to get Hornets to shoot to their potential lately. Also fixed 3; an Anschutz, a Walther & a Weihrauch for Buddies that had severe bedding issues. Fully didn't expect such glaring ommisions from premier makers either. All went from 2.5"+ to <.75" after bedding. Like Dom I'm into Lee Factory Crimp Dies for Hornets, too - they just seem to work really well with this cartridge. I also had a 1,000 batch of .224" 45 gr. H&N copper-plated cast bullets that shot superbly with 5 grs. of Unique outa the Weihrauch; after they were gone I never managed to get another cast bullet to shoot as well.  Keppeler just made a run of DJV Match rifles for Henke in Hamburg in both 22K-Hornet & .221 Remington Fireball - a wave of the future here in The Fatherland; since both cartridges will outshoot the average 22 Hornet and you'll forego the ensuing head scratching at the loading bench, too. Cheers, Number 10 | |||
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I've had the very same results as Slim. | |||
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Thanks to all, for your replays. Hmmm.... I will test something. Neck sizing, other primers ( I used CCI-400), and this 35grs V-Max. Is it the BT or the flat base V-Max? I found some flat base for ~22.-€ / 100pcs. I have a halfe box of 45grs Sierra spitzer SP. Hmmm.... will order the 40grainer, I mean. But the AA1680, I don´t know. It´s difficult to get it for "testings". But I have a small rest of Lil´gun. I´s difficult to buy to many different propelants, because, I´m only allowed to store 1,5kg/3lbs. in my flat. Thanks, Martin | |||
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Big Bore: I was getting exactly the same thing as the target gun curtis posted. 13 of Lil Gun and the 35 grain V-Max made that go away in 2 different Hornets. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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I have a Contender in 22 Hornet and love it. I have always had acceptable accuracy with an occasional good group but usually nothing spectacular. I started shooting 35 grain Hornady's and lately the new 30 grain Barnes varminator. It loves to little pills. If your rifle is a 16 inch twist, I suggest trying these two bullets. I use Lil Gun but have heard good things about 296, H110, 1680 and others. I don't use a pistol primer but a small rifle, standard primeer. Since going to the 30 grain Barnes I have a lot more sub one inch groups. Oh by the way, It never shot much over an in either. I have several 20 or even 30 shot groups that are 1 1/4 inches. Gotta love the Hornet. DW | |||
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I'm one of those who has had poor results with the Hornet (Three different rifles). Whatever you do with it, good luck. | |||
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Yesterday I got two boxes of different bullets, the 35grs V-Max and a 40grs spitzer SP, and the Lee Collet neck sizing die. And here´s the result of "hard" work this morning.  This week I haven´t enought time to test at range, a lot of work is waiting and my car is having a "problem". But I hope in the next week I can test it. Martin | |||
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Test the bullets on your car! Solve both problems at the same time.  Si tantum EGO eram dimidium ut bonus ut EGO memor | |||
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I had been using the AA 1680 for most all my hornet loads, but once I tried the LiL Gun... no turning back. Precision with velocity without apparent pressure is a win.  Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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I gave up trying to find an accurate reload for my Kimber Mdl 82 Hornet some time ago and got a 221 Fireball rifle. None of the case problems with the Fireball round and I get 0.5 inch 100 Yd groups with it. But this winter Im going to play with the Hornet to see if I can get some sub one groups with it. | |||
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I have an Anschutz 1431/32 with a rust damaged bore. I shoot 55gr Hornady spire points with very good results. Powder charge is 13.6gr Lil'Gun compressed with R-P cases and Federal small rifle primers. It also shoot 60gr spire points very well. I do not size my cases and because of neck clearance I seat the bullets in a paper cup arrangement. Case life is indefinite but I do lube my loaded cases. The rifle is built to take a 222 Rem. I would recommend neck sizing only (as long as the concentricity can be guaranteed). Here's how I do mine.  And How I get the paper cup seat in..  The petals get cut off by simply twisting an upturned case mouth over the boolit. And the rifle.  It's a different way of doing things but I do get 222 starting load performance with it. Fired bullets.  60gr on left and 55gr on right. Pressure is not too bad.  I do have to pre-compress the powder to the right depth and then after seating the bullet and trimming off the petals I dip the bullet and neck into a molten 'waxy-lube' that soaks up into the paper hand towel cup which holds the bullet firmly and seals the case at the same time. The lube film left in the bore prevents any copper fouling. The 'waxy-lube' is equal mix of STP Smoke Stopper, candle wax and beeswax or stick bullet lube, melted together. Regards 303Guy | |||
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303guy, Very interesting load you developed. Have you shot the 55gr over a chrony? Do you get any of the paper petals stuck in the bore? | |||
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| One of Us |
The bore has always stayed very clean. I stopped looking for bits of paper left in the bore. I don't recall ever finding bits in my 'test tube' either. I haven't chrono'd those loads. I guestimated the velocity at 2720fps by extrapolating from the load tables and comparing impact on steel plate with a 223 (it made a hole at 25 the same as a 223 at 100) and using bullet drop calculations. I do have a chrono now so I should use it. Oh, the bore is .223 and of course those are .224 bullets. Regards 303Guy | |||
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303guy, I wanted to ask you why do you add the paper 'cup'? | |||
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| One of Us |
The paper cup is to seat the bullet in an unsized case neck. It evolved into a straighter loaded cartridge to head spacing on the case mouth and higher loadings without case elongation. Regards 303Guy | |||
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| one of us |
Very interesting. Thanks for posting it. | |||
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Today, finally I found the time to test my testrounds. And, oh wonder  , my rifle likes the lighter bullets. Best group was with the 35grs V-Max and N110. With Lil´Gun I have had one flyer. My mistake??? I don´t know, but I will test again. The 40grs Speer SP shoots groups with ~30mm, with Lil´Gun and N110. Here´s a pic with the best group. The 35grs V-Max.  So, I say "Thanks" too all, for the great help. Martin | |||
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Hi Big Bore Fan, do you have Lil´Gun in Germany? Is it commercially available? Maybe I could buy a can if I make a travel in Germany, How is the situation for powder there? Some particular Licence? bye Stefano Waidmannsheil | |||
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Good morning Stefano, yes, in Germany it´s possible to buy every Hodgdon propelants. But at my dealer, I must special order it, from the general dealer. It´s on stock in 3-4 weeks. Buying gun powders is very difficult in germany. Gun powders aren´t only classified as "propelants", but as "explosives". So you need a special permit to purchase explosives. In Austria, I mean, you don´t need any permit. And Hodgdon powders must be available there. By, Martin | |||
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303guy, please tell me what the tool in the second picture is that is holding the case and how is one made. | |||
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I finally chronographed my load. I measured 2748fps which is about what I had expected. I'll call it 2740fps until I pass enough shots over the Chrony to get a meaningful mean. It's fast enough anyway, flat shooting out to 175m and accurate enough out to 200m. The charge is more possibly 13.7 or 13.8grs. I've lost the data! That tool is something I made for inserting the paper cross. It sits over the case and a rod is used to push it into place and hold it there while with drawing the tool. The paper cup is to seat the bullet in an unsized case. The chamber is a bit generous. The paper both holds the bullet and centralizes it and also soaks up the molten waxy-lube which both 'glues' the bullet in place and seals the case. I suspect that the compression of the powder forms a hard plug which provides enough resistance together with the weight of the boolit to ensure consistent ignition. Regards 303Guy | |||
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