A friend of mine is wanting to get a new barrel for his Encore. He is wanting a small caliber, .25 or below and is very interested in the .22-250. It is to be used for stalking in dense forest in a mountainous area. Shots will most likely be under 100yds. It may also be used for varmit hunting.

What are the pros and cons of this caliber, and are there any suggestions for a different one? I suggested several, including the .243AI, .257 roberts, .25-06, 6mm Rem., and a few others in that caliber range, but he is pretty set on wanting something in .22. I personally wouldn't hunt deer with anything under 6mm. That is why I was suggesting the larger calibers to him.

Also, I will be making his ammo, so availability of a cartridge is not a factor.

Thanks

.243 or .25-06 would probably be your best bet of the rounds you listed. You could get away with a 22-250 if you are close and are confident you can make the shot. If using a 22-250 on deer take a look at Barnes TSX's or the 60gr Nosler Partition.

Head shooting them is always an option, but IIRC my buddy said he had tried it and "it's the kind of thing that makes you not want to shoot them in the head" when you really connect.

Some folks use .22 on deer, but I think you should stick with the Nosler partition or Barnes x-bullet. I killed one with a 30-06 accelerator when they were brand new and the internal damage was incredible, but the bullet went in between the ribs with no exit hole. I can imagine the surface wound if it had struck a shoulder. That would be a heck of a painful, slow death. In my state, .22 is not legal for big game (except for cougar). I'm with you on the .24 and up, but I'm no expert.

Your friend should first check on the legality of a .22 centerfire on game. Many states do not allow it.

2-25 is not a deer round . of course it can be used, but so can a 22LR. The vertue of a 22-250 is accuracy and flat shooting.
To use it for brush hunting deer makes no sence. I think the other rounds you mentioned would be better. I love the Roberts but the 6mm Rem would be good as would the .243 although I don't know why you would AI it. You would gain little mabye equal the 6mm certainly not much more. You would get a little more recoil with a 308 but it wuld probably be my choice for a brush rifle for deer, it still gives you the opertunity for a 350 yard shot if need be, but then again so does the Roberts...tj3006

The thing about using a 22 centerfire for big game is that they will work. Like with any round out there they have their lmitations and certain disciplines one needs to adhere to.

I'll say flat out for open country I've no issue with the use of the big 22's on deer, lopes and the sort.

I personally would not choose to use one for sneaky peeting around the woods and using one.

Why, well for a couple of reasons:

*bullet placement is not always all it should/could be using this hunt style

*I always want an exit hole, and especially in the woods. I want 2 holes for blood spillage. In the woods on dry ground it is gonna be very tough to track a deer that goes any distance. I've done enough hunting in Northern Minnesota to know this.

The only way I would use a 22/250 or the like for the woods would be if I was stand hunting and there was snow.

This round is very effective when used properly, but the follow up is what I am concerned with. All of us have seen the weird deer that was hit perfectly and still ran off for 100 yards or so. This stuff is gonna happen.

If not, I am taking a gun that will make a bigger hole and leak more red.

Good luck

Mark D

For deer out in the open the 220 Swift and a premium bullet might be interesting. But for stalking in the woods I'd take the 25'06 and 120 grain bullets (from the list provided).

Get a 22-250 with a 9 twist barrel and shoot 75gr Hornady A-Max bullets. Simply amazing combination on deer.

Seems like most of you echo my opinion. It is legal to take deer in AR and OK with a .22 centerfire. I know a few people who will only hunt with a .223. It's just not ethical in my opinion. Too much chance for wounded game if shot placement is off. I was just wanting to get some opinions on the cartirdge. Since he was wanting something in .22, we went through several books, and both finally agreed that if he got a .22, it would probably be the .22-250.

I have used a .22-250 for deer and killed about a dozen with it. I don't use it anymore and would not recommend it. It can be done but you have to be fussier about the shots you take.

Barnes makes the new TSX for .22 and Nosler makes a 60 gr. partition. I think there is a trophy bonded bear claw too. These bullets were not available when I hunted with the 22-250. They will definately improve penetration. I don't know if that will lead to quicker kills.

One deer I shot we tracked for over 3.5 miles before we got it.

I´d listen to Mark and the other guys. I´ve shot deer with the 30-06, 6.5x55, 8.2x53R, 9.3x62 .375H&H and .444Marlin.

The 9.3 seems perfect for the job if you´re in the bush, for open country the 6.5x55 is nice.

My son killed two whitetail doe this past season with a 22-250 60gr nosler partion (about 80 yards). I was real suprised how such a small bullet could just knock the shit out of a good sized mature doe. In a wide open wheat field its an easy shot though. In the brush I would prefer to have something a little bigger. The picture perfect broad side shot is unlikely.

Using the 22-250 or any other .22 caliber is illegal in the province of Alberta. Not only that ,it is reckless,stupid and you should have your ass kicked if you use it. Yes you can kill a deer,antelope and probably a grizzly and cape buffalo if your bullshit luck is good. Someone once advised "use a caliber that works when things go wrong as opposed to what works when things are absolutely right". Dont think I am advising large magnums for deer. Shoot something reasonable: 270,308,7x57 etc. and you will be better off.

quote:

Originally posted by bwest:
Using the 22-250 or any other .22 caliber is illegal in the province of Alberta.Not only that ,it is reckless,stupid and you should have your ass kicked if you use it. Yes you can kill a deer,antelope and probably a grizzly and cape buffalo if your bullshit luck is good. Someone once advised "use a caliber that works when things go wrong as opposed to what works when things are absolutely right". Dont think I am advising large magnums for deer. Shoot something reasonable: 270,308,7x57 etc. and you will be better off.

Not to nit pick but this fellow is not in Alberta. I don't figure he he was looking to be insulted either.

Now to the questions.

Pro's

Light recoil

.22-250 can be super accurate with a bunch of different load combinations.

Less muzzle blast.

Flat trajectory.

Con's

Small bullet small wound channel

Lower energy figures

Chance of insufficent penetration on less than perfect shots.

I have never used a .22 centerfire on deer ( though it is legal here for any big game animal in an open season) .24 and up would be better and would allow for longer shots if they were presented. Hell if the shots are 150 yards or less it would be pretty hard to beat the good old 30-30 with a 150-170 bullet. You said you would be loading his ammo and with it being a single shot you could load sptizers or round nosed bullets. That would give you from 110-220 grain bullets. A 125 ballistic tip at about 2200 fps should be a hammer out to 150 yards or so.

The 250 Savage would also be sweet with a good 100 grain bullet little recoil and enough goods to kill deer out to 250 yards or so.

Steel Slinger,
I have used the 22-250 on deer. In fact, about 6 years ago, I dedicated my season to using the 22-250 with the 60gr Nos Partition. I killed 5 deer at various ranges in both heavy cover and wide open. Here's what I experienced with THAT bulet: No 2 shots were identical, that is, placement was different on each deer. I purposely hit both shoulders and ribs. The only consistent issue was that there was no consistency with bullet performance. Some hit behind the shoulder left a good blood trail, some left none! One particularly large bodied 7 point was hit at 40yds behind the shoulder. Had I not heard him crash, and had he not run into a planted pine thicket that was clear of low brush I could have easily lost him due to no blood trail. I concluded after that season that for me, and me only, 7mm would be my minimum for deer/antelope hunitng. Shot angles and cover conditions couldn't be counted on to be optimum and I wanted a bullet of sufficient diameter to leave a blood trail on both sides. For me , I justed wanted to err on the side of caution and haven't looked back.
I have used the 22-250 to kill antelope and was extremely happy with the results, but that is wide open territory and plenty of time to take a near perfect shot. My son-in-law still uses a 22-250AI for alot of his deer hunting.....
The 250 Sav is a near perfect choice for your buddy for what he wants to do.
Bill

While I'm not as blunt as some of the other folks here, I still agree with their premise. The 22-250 would do the job if you placed your shots carefully, but for what you described, a short range brush gun I'd probably go with the 243. My 243 Win has never let me down, ever. I have bigger guns which I love as well, but the 243 has a special place in my heart. In short, I'd step up to 6mm/243.

I took one with a .223 once. worked like a charm. It was the only center fire avalible and I made due. Given a choice I would opt for a 6mm minimun.

Terry

IN a 22 caliber,

Any Barnes XLC.....

Sieera's 55 grain SP, 55 grain HP, 60 grain HP, 63 grain SMP, 65 grain SP,

Winchester's 64 grain SP.....

Hornady's 55 gr SP, 60 grain SP or HP, 75 grain A Max....

Speer, 55 grain SP, and MY personal favorite... 70 grain SP.....

Any of those bullets will maximize the punch and lethality on a 22 centerfire...The 22.250 is a good choice in 22 caliber...

I left out the 60 grain Partition, because I can't get one to shoot real accurate in ANY of my 22 caliber Centerfires....

Sure some of the bigger stuff might give you more margin for error, but a 22 centerfire, still has a lot more punch that a Bow does.... so what is the big deal?

When I lived in Minnesota, 22 calibers are illegal for deer, but a 410 is legal.. I hunted Wisconsin, and a 22 caliber centerfire was legal for deer there, but a 410 was illegal!!

I tried the 22 calibers when I moved to Oregon 10 yrs ago.... them 'not working' turned out to be a load of hogwash when you put the bullet in the right place....

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by bwest:
Using the 22-250 or any other .22 caliber is illegal in the province of Alberta. Not only that ,it is reckless,stupid and you should have your ass kicked if you use it.

Ain't nobody going to kick mine or my son's ass for legally taking game. If its legal and I get the erge it I'll take-em with a claw hammer

Several things in this thread are contrary to my experience. One is if you use a big gun and make a bad shot the big gun will compensate. BS---a bad shot is a bad shot and will give bad results. The next thing is if you use a small gun use a premium bullet. I use cheap Winchester bulk packed bullets in .22 centerfires and in .243's and if you put one in the right spot you have a deer to gut out. In the wrong spot you have the same problem even if you are using a magnum of some sort or the other. If legal in the state(Texas .22 centerfires legal)a .222,.223,22-250 or a .243 (I know not a .22)hit em right and you have meat in the freezer. My 16 year old grandson has gotten atleast one deer per year since he was 9. From 11 on,most were with a .243. This year he got a couple with a .308 I gave him. Results were about the same with the .308 as with the .243. Certainly not saying the .243 has more power. I can figure it out that a 100 grain bullet in a .243 will have less power than a 150 grain about the same speed out of a .308. Put em in the right place and results about the same.

The thing here and several just don't seem to be getting is this.

Is the 22/250 effective on taking deer. Yeah you bet. I've seen way too much game taken with them to ever listen to anything else.

IMO it is not a good choice to be using on dry ground and with heavy cover as this can make recovery of game a bit challenging. They just will not leave enough of a blood trail to be effective on dry ground.

Even if the shot is placed right that deer may not go down lights out. We've all seen them take a dash and some times this dash can be a fair ways. In heavy cover this can make things a bit tough on the follow up.

Although I be for betting on the vast majority of the shots to the chest within 275 yds just flat out electrocutting that venado.

In the fall of 92, I shot a small whitetail buck out of a stand in Northern Minne. I used a 6.5/06 with one of the old Barnes 140 X's. The shot was at 17 yds, took out one shoulder and the lungs. Said volunteer made a dash for quite a ways thru the woods. Now, thankfully I had 6" on new white. The buck traveled a fair ways and did not leak one bit of blood! Now if there had not been white on the ground I may of and I may not of found that deer.

The next year same gun but a 140 Sierra and the trail on dry ground could of been followed by Stevie Wonder.

Point being for me I want a round/bullet that will give me the best possible chance for a very good blood trail.

Now if you gave me a 22/250 and said hunt the rest of your life with it I would do so with complete confidence. But there would be times when I would be a bit more selective about the shot I took or did not.

All things in life have their limitations and a person has just gotta know them. And then have the discipline to stay within them.

Mark D

The 22-250 can kill deer with the Speer 70gr sp bullet I have some loaded to 3150 fps and they are accurate. 3 of them in a 1/2" at 200 yds. I have never used my 22-250 for deer hunting. I always took a different rifle but I know people that have hunted deer with the 22-250.

I'd probably not recommend the use of a .22-250 on deer ever.

The ideal choice to me would be a milder .25 cal. I like the .257 Roberts and the .250 Savage is a close second. I use 75gr. Hornady bullets on coyotes with great results, and can load heavier bullets when needed. The Roberts is effective on deer with little concern for placement. This can't be said of the .22-250. Nate

I have shot whitetails with a lot of different cartridges and think that the 22-250 with 60 grain Partitions is a good choice for a hunter who is a good shot and can pick his/her shot. I have yet to find a cartridge and bullet combination that will provide clean kills with poor bullet placement and/or poor bullet selection. The least powerful cartridge that I have used to shoot deer with is the 22 Magnum and 40 grain PMC soft-point bullets. Good bullet placement, in the head, at about 30 feet resulted in several 1 shot kills. The key seems to be the proper placement of a proper projectile, regardless of the cartridge that is used.

Jeff

Big Nate---Not to flame but certainly to disagree--you state that with the .257 Roberts little concern for shot placement--but that can't be said of the 22-250. I don't think it can be correctly said of a .257 Roberts or a HUGE magnum. I shoot a lot of sparrows with an air gun and if they aren't hit right they fly off in a cloud of feathers. Do some comparisons--a sparrow weighs maybe 3 oz and using a 10 grain projectile that would be a grain for every 131.25 grains. A 150 pound deer would need a 7,984.791 grain bullet for the same ratio. .257 Roberts don't shoot 7,984.791 grain bullets. The bird has a fragile hollow bone lightweight frame for flying ---all this and you still need good shot placement. Using any size a poorly hit deer is going to be a poorly hit deer and apt to run off.

Everybody seems to want to talk about the negatives so I'll mention a few of the positives. #1, Shooting such a small bore gun will force you to be paitent and wait for shots. Being paitent is just part of hunting. I've killed more than a few deer with my 22-250, but if I can't get a high neck shot I don't shoot. #2, Shooting such a low recoil round will improve most folks shooting.

My bullets of choice have been Remington's 55gr pointed soft point and the 55gr Sierra boattail soft point. Nutin' but neck.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carpetman:
Big Nate---Not to flame but certainly to disagree--you state that with the .257 Roberts little concern for shot placement--but that can't be said of the 22-250.[QUOTE]

Point well made! And I will admit right away I used a poor choice of words. I agree with your point.

With the Roberts and good bullets you wouldn't have to be so worried about poor performance. It will work as well as larger calibers. It will shoot through a shoulder, and get pass through performance.

I have taken exactly one doe with a .22-250 with a brain shot. There isn't anything to compare here. I've dispatched car hit deer with my .223 twice, again they were head shots. I just think that if low recoil, coyote & deer capable, is the criteria there are better choices than making the .224 cal work on deer. Nate

I've about decided that discussions such as this as to what will work and what won't while interesting,accomplish little more than talking about the weather. I've had guys tell me a certain rifle wont work,yet the same person bow hunts. (Not putting down bow hunting---but they are pale in comparison to a rifle). The only thing I can come up with is that you don't know until you pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by keithv35:

Anyone know the twist rate of a M70 Classic barrel in 22-250? Will they accurately stabilize 60-70 grain bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by hughjass:
I have used a .22-250 for deer and killed about a dozen with it. I don't use it anymore and would not recommend it. It can be done but you have to be fussier about the shots you take.

Barnes makes the new TSX for .22 and Nosler makes a 60 gr. partition. I think there is a trophy bonded bear claw too. These bullets were not available when I hunted with the 22-250. They will definately improve penetration. I don't know if that will lead to quicker kills.

One deer I shot we tracked for over 3.5 miles before we got it.

Isn't being fussier what being a Rifleman is all about?
I regularly use a 22/250 Ackley Improved and so far(10-12) haven't had any tracking to do.
I'm curious where the deer was hit that traveled 3.5 miles? My Son gut shot one with the above rifle and it traveled less than 100 yds?And yes he got a sermon(ass chewing).I use 55gr. Sierra flat base spitzers and have had Excellent results. No pass throughs, but most drop on the spot. I see no need to change a thing.
The perfect broadside shot isn't necessary either, but knowing the anatomy of the animal is!
Stepchild

The 22-250 and also the .220 swift have been used successfully for years to hunt deer and I know folks that believe it's the best thing ever invented to hunt them with. I've done the trick with a short barreled .222 and was very successful using 55 grain soft points.

While I personally use the 6.5 X 55 and up to the .30-06 I can say that anyone that wants to hunt with the .22-250 is welcome to hunt with me.

I think with the advent of the 55-60 grain .243 bullets offered by leading bullet manufacturers the .243-6MM calibers will duplicate the performance of the 22-250 and as a double will handle the more poipular deer rifle bullets in 100 grains. If I had a 22-250 is one thing.....if I was buying a rifle I'd certainly be looking to the .243 and handloading the 55 grain BTs for varmints and 100 grainers for deer.

To your question...is the 22-250 adequate for deer?...Yes...time proven.....it works.

quote:

Originally posted by Bo-regard:
Steel Slinger,
I have used the 22-250 on deer. In fact, about 6 years ago, I dedicated my season to using the 22-250 with the 60gr Nos Partition. I killed 5 deer at various ranges in both heavy cover and wide open. Here's what I experienced with THAT bulet: No 2 shots were identical, that is, placement was different on each deer. I purposely hit both shoulders and ribs. The only consistent issue was that there was no consistency with bullet performance. Some hit behind the shoulder left a good blood trail, some left none! One particularly large bodied 7 point was hit at 40yds behind the shoulder. Had I not heard him crash, and had he not run into a planted pine thicket that was clear of low brush I could have easily lost him due to no blood trail. I concluded after that season that for me, and me only, 7mm would be my minimum for deer/antelope hunitng. Shot angles and cover conditions couldn't be counted on to be optimum and I wanted a bullet of sufficient diameter to leave a blood trail on both sides. For me , I justed wanted to err on the side of caution and haven't looked back.
I have used the 22-250 to kill antelope and was extremely happy with the results, but that is wide open territory and plenty of time to take a near perfect shot. My son-in-law still uses a 22-250AI for alot of his deer hunting.....
The 250 Sav is a near perfect choice for your buddy for what he wants to do.
Bill

Been there, done that. Pass bill's advice on to your buddy.roger

Steel Slinger: I concur with others that brush Hunting of jumped up Whitetails with a 22-250 leaves a world of better choices for your friend.
It he was blind Hunting or Hunting from a tree stand then I would give him an emphatic recommendation regarding the 22-250. The 22-250 kills Whitetails and Antelope as if they were lightning struck when bullet placement is carefully done!
I know - I've done it.
Every time the subject of using 22 centerfires on medium game comes up I relay my observations of my Hunting partners family and "their 223"!
My partner, his wife and four daughters live in some of the densest population of Whitetails in all of Montana! His family killed 11 Whitetails last year - most with the 223 Remington!
I have seen the various family members kill Whitetails, Mule Deer and Antelope with this 223! Probably 25 animals harvested with it that I have seen over the last 8 years! They have probably taken 75 to 90 medium size game animals with this Rifle/caliber since I have known them!
One of my friends daughters was 12 years and 4 days old at the time she killed a Mt. Goat with ONE SHOT from the 223! She is the youngest person to ever harvest a Mt. Goat in Montana! She was using Remington factory 55 gr. ammo in their 223!
Another daughter who had previously killed both Antelope and Mule Deer with her 223 took a TROPHY Mule Deer with her 223 that measured 31"!!!
One shot!
223!
Monster Buck!!!
If you want to know the secret to the 223 (and/or the 22-250) in cleanly and quickly harvesting all these heads of Game - its simple! Have a good rest, take your time, squeeze the trigger and shoot the game in the heart/lungs!
The 22-250's and the 223's bullets impart ALL their energy in the heart/lungs - virtually exploding them and shocking the game so severely they often die in their tracks!
I've seen this many times - I am a convinced believer!
But again my friend, his wife and his daughters do not still Hunt through the willows for these Whitetails and jump shoot them - they take up strategic locations and secrete themselves and wait for an undisturbed shot at the Whitetails!
Again if your friend were to Hunt from a ground blind or tree stand the 22-250 would serve him well.
Still Hunting through the woods and often having bounding Deer to shoot at is a different matter.
Maybe he should buy two more barrels for his T/C. Maybe 25/06 and the 22-250 barrels!
The 22-250 is a splendid round for many applications - I just don't have confidence in it being used on bounding Whitetails as effectively as other cartridges!
Long live the 22-250.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Very well said there VG

Mark D

I won't say yea or nea on the 22-250 as far as being able to kill deer. However I will say in my opinion for what your friend wants their are better calibers. He has no need for a fast flat shooting round for stalking and close range shooting in heavy brush. I myself would go with something heavier. I used to have a TC Contender in 7TCU that was awesome accurate. Yes it is a wildcat but if you are reloading for it that does not matter. Maybe even better yet would be the old reliable 30-30. At the ranges he wants to shoot it would work great.
I see no need to go with a .22 centerfire for a handgun round he only plans to stalk hunt deer with.

When I was a kid, I watched an uncle shoot a doe with a 22LR pistol. She fell just as dead as if he'd used a belted magnum. Point is, yes the 22-250 will kill deer effectively. All it needs is to be pointed in the right place. The same thing can be said about any other caliber out there. Shot placement with ANY caliber is the key. I remember seeing a post a while back from a guy that shot a dandy buck many, many, many yards away with a 50 BMG I believe it was. His shot placement was poor, and the deer suffered as a result of it. See my point???

If I only had a 22-250 to shoot,,,,I wouldn't feel handicapped.

I use my 22-250 on whitetail. 55 grain blitzking. AS many have mentioned before, you must place the shot well. I have taken two nice bucks with it the last two years in a row. Both shots were almost identical. Both deer just happened to be sanding straight at me, I put both shots right between the breast bone on both occasions. The bullet made it to the heart, destroying about half in each case. deer don't run far when there heart is half there or half gone. however you wish to view it.

But as far as your question. If the situation is always perfect(Which it isnt') purchase the smaller caliber, otherwise go for something in a .24 or a .25.


Make every shot count!!!

Some guys do hunt successfully with very small stuff. Reading the postings here I've noticed they do tend to hunt open country. I remember one recent quote concerning such a kill. After a well placed chest shot on a largish buck "he only ran about 90 yards". That was in a flat, open field and worked for the hunter, but most of the woods I've hunted are such that an animal that ran 30 yards might well be over a ridge, at the bottom of a steep drop off, in four feet of marsh water, in a greenthorn thicket, or otherwise darn near unrecoverable. ...And that's if and when you find the carcass. I used a .243 using 100 gr. bullets successfully for years but now 257,.260 or 6.5x55 are my minimums. Perfect shots are rare in an imperfect world.