My question is the 250 Savage worth rebarreling on a short Ruger action when instead I could just build a 257 Roberts on a standard Mauser action?

Thanks. KB

What is your objective? I like both the 250 and 257.

But it sounds like you have a short action Ruger in 250 and want a 257. If that is correct, rebarreling the 250 to 257 would work great...assuming that you like the Ruger.

The 257 works great in a shourt action.

I think it depends on the magazine length you have on that Ruger action. Is it 2.8" or 3.0"?

I had a 250 Savage in a mid-size action with a 3.0 magazine and the little 250 cartridge looked out of place with all that extra space. I eventually had it rebarreled to the Roberts and that round is perfectly suited to the 3.0" magazine.

I agree the Roberts can be used in a short action 2.8 magazine, but I don't think that is what serves the cartridge best. If you do have only 2.8" to work with, I think the 250 Savage would be my choice.

IMO the .257 Roberts is not a true short action round.

It's best where long bullets are not forced deeply to rob case capacity.

The Mauser in .257 Roberts is a great idea.

I've had several short action 257's which would deliver 3200fps with 100gr bullets and 2990 with 120gr bullets. The long actions couldn't do any better. If I want more than that, a 25/06 is called for.

With no more than a 100 grain bullet, the 250 Savage could easily become your favorite. I use a Roberts, but I've wondered ...

quote:

I've had several short action 257's which would deliver 3200fps with 100gr bullets and 2990 with 120gr bullets. The long actions couldn't do any better. If I want more than that, a 25/06 is called for.

+1, my 257 Bob is on a Rem 600 action and I have no problems with 3100 fps with 100gr TSX. If I want more there is always the 25-06 or 257 Roy.

The Roberts has a bit more power.
In either action, this is true. I have a Ruger in the Roberts. Its a long action. But any cartrige I have loaded fot it (and I load very near the lands) will fit in a ruger short action magazine.
People will argue that seating a 120 grain bullet takes up to much powder space in a short action, with the Roberts, and recomend the savage instead.
Bad agument to me, The 250 case with a 120 grain bullet will alow to seat it out farther.
But I bet you will still get more powder in the Roberts case than in the savage.
The savage is a fine cartridge. but the Roberts simply has more powder space, and if you want more speed , go with the Roberts.
But before you have one built you could buy either a kimber or the new ruger hawkeye.
...tj3006

I have a short action roberts and have never needed anything more than 100 gr. Partition.

THE BOB!

250 Savage AI..best of both

shortgun

Why not do both? I have a Savage 10 re-barreled to 250 Savage and a Stevens 200 re-chambered to 257 Rob. Both are sub moa shooters. Here in Florida I use 100gr bullets for our smallish whitetails.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

I run both and really like both. I've had trouble getting anything over 100 grains to shoot the way I like in my 10" twist .257s, but have never had trouble on game with the 100s. With the Bob I get 3000-3100 with the 100 Hornady, with the 250 I get 2800-2900. Deer haven't been able to tell me the difference. For varminting the 257 may have an advantage since I get 3-400 fps more with it than the 250 with 75s giving a flatter trajectory at long range.

I'm running both chamberings now, and really like the accuracy they deliver. I don't shoot anything over 100 grain bullets in the 257's and 90 grain HPBT's in the 250's.
I have one Bob on a Rem 700 Short action that I wanted for a Coyote rifle. I only shoot the Sierra 90 grain HPBT's and Speer 87 grain SP's and TNT's in it, and accuracy is 3 shots in a 1/2" group at 100 yards for all three bullets with RL-15 Powder. I'm coming to like the 87 grain Speer bullets very much, especially the TNT. It is a very well designed bullet, and performs. Those same bullets perform well in my Rem 722 in 257 Roberts too.
I have two 250 Savage rifles and a 250 AI. Haven't played much with the 250AI, but the standard chamberings shoot the 90 grain Sierra HPBT's well, one with Varget and the other with 760.
Don

quote:

Originally posted by shortgun:
250 Savage AI..best of both

shortgun

Yeah, the velocities out of this one were pretty darn impressive for that case in the Sierra # 5 manual...

I've thought about this one for a varmint round to play with...and just to have sumpin differn't

quote:

Originally posted by shortgun:
250 Savage AI..best of both

shortgun

I think this answer negates both options.

Thanks for the discussion guys. They are both neat little cartridges. The rifle chambered in the smallest cartridge I have owned was a 243, and that was a long time ago when I was in college. I think it was my first rifle. Now I'm thinking of another smallish caliber, but I think the 243 is a bit under my threshold, which is a debate and a matter of opinion that I would rather not get into.

Another debate and matter of opinion is the A.I. cartridges. I have less than zero opinion and use for any of them, and consider them all, at the minimum, a waste of time. Apparantly the fellow Ackley was a man that didn't have enough to do with his time, and found a solution to a nonexistant problem. I have nothing against straight sided, sharp shouldered cartridges, but find the standard SAAMI chamberings are plenty sufficient, and will feed much better. I have one and one-half rifles in a wildcat chamber, but they ain't A.I.

I think if I was going to consider something straighted sided, sharp shouldered wildcat, I would go with the 284 brass, probably 6.5 mm, but that's not likely to happen either. If speed is the goal, there's the 25/06, and the 257 Weatherby, which should be sufficient for anyone.

So, the discussion is 250 Savage or 257 Roberts, SAAMI specs.

I just bought a really pretty walnut Fajen stock that is not buggered up anywhere despite its age. It is really slim and light. It is inletted for a commercial Mauser action, with a slender barrel channel, about #2 I'm guestimating. I have an FN action that I'm going to try in the stock, as soon as the action gets back from the gunsmith.

But, I also have a Ruger short action that will work well with the 250 Savage.

Oh well, I may have to do both. Could be worse problems.

Thanks,
KB

quote:

I have one and one-half rifles in a wildcat chamber, but they ain't A.I.

What's the half rifle chambered in?

Hi -

This probably won't help any, but at least it may bring a light touch of ironic humour to the discussion....

All my life I have really liked the .250-3000 cartridge (as it was almost universally called when I was young). I've owned at least half a dozen M99s in that chambering, all of which would shoot 5-shot groups of an inch or under at 100 yards. Also had an intentionally so-built "sleeper" bolt action impromptu match gun with one of the ugliest, roughly finished, apparently "junker" Mauser '98 actions you've never seen. It had a Buhmiller barrel turned to the stepped Mauser profile, and the whole thing was cold blued and in a (carefully, fully glass bedded) re-worked, marred & scarred, military stock. Won a lot of money on side-bets at various ranges with that rifle. Then just had to get a Remington 700 Classic too when they brought it out in the .250-3000.

So, am I going to recommend the .250 over the .257? Well, yes, sorta...but there's still more to this story.

Over the years, I always took the .250's hunting...maybe once a year, never more. For some reason I kept picking up something else to take afield when it came time to go and if there still wasn't venison in the meat house

. Then when I started cutting down on rifles (running out of space is a more accurate statement), somehow my dear old .250s all "unappeared". The .257 bore-diameter rifles I am left with are two .257 Roberts, one .25-06, and one .257 Wby Mag.

Now that I scratch my head and think about it, even shallowly, I finally understand that happened probably becaause the bigger .25s can do more. Not that I really need them to...the .250 Savage is plenty adequate, and I have always loved its logical, moderate, adequacy. But some primordial beast keeps dragging me off into the boggy morass of "what-ifs?", and I keep opting for something I can load at either the .250-3000 level OR MORE POWERFULLY.

No, the more power probably won't help. With it along, the best shot will probably be well within the 250-3000's potentcy. But then, come to think of it, what if I DO shoot a close-up deer with an unnecessarily powerful cartridge? Will it be too dead to eat? Probably not, so I'll take the risk in case the shot turns out to need the extra power/flatter trajectory, whatever.

I haven't totally succumbed to the "bigger case" .257s yet; just bought a reamer set to build a .25/.223 upper for my Mattel gun. ....But I'll still bet it doesn't go hunting as often as my bigger .25 guns will...

Don't know if there is any applicable shoe there fit for you to wear, but there's my own situation re the .250-3000 and the .257 at the moment.

Good luck,

AC

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

I have one and one-half rifles in a wildcat chamber, but they ain't A.I.

What's the half rifle chambered in?

It's a rifle that is about half finished, but when & if I get it finished it will be a 323 Hollis. I have the reamer, Redding dies which I had to wait a long time for, the barrel, action, stock, etc., and perhaps 2,000 8mm 220 gr bullets, and maybe 200 pieces of 308 Norma brass, and about ten pounds of IMR 4350. It just needs to be assembled. It started out as a 8x68 project, but I had a good Ruger action with a magnum bolt face, and the brass, and I didn't have anything to feed the 8x68, so one idea led to another. I estimate that it will just about duplicate the 8x68, with less trouble.

Thanks AC for the practical input. I think the 257 Roberts is the way to go, especially since I'm always looking for an excuse to build another Mauser sporter.

But I like the 6.5x55 too - hummm, so many choices.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
But I like the 6.5x55 too - hummm, so many choices.

KB

Dang, you know you & I must both live close to the door to some alternate world...at least we both keep stumbling into the same mine-fields.

You're looking at the 6.5x55 too, and I'm in the process of building a vz-24 in 6.5x57.......

Have fun Senor; I know I am.

This has been avery interesting thread to me. I have never had or shot a 250 Savage but have always liked the 'look' of it. It just seems so well ballanced - enough power and range and not too big etc. Now I have the chance to build an equivalent in the form of a 25-303 but want it for it's range. So, for me the 257 Roberts is a cartridge I can use and it does come close to the Savage. Plus, I like the x57 case and have no need for a 7x57. Best of all worlds for me - low recoil, long range, x57 case, low pressure cartridge which will work on my No4. action.

This thread has been interesting for me also! And to see someone questioning Mr. P.O. Ackley's intelligence was quite surprising. Albeit the original question was the .250-3000 or the .257 Roberts superiority, the thread took a different turn. I believe that if all of us could spend time tonight with Mr. Ackley he would tell us all that one of his most proud production moments was the day he tried his "Ackley Improvement" on the 257 Roberts case. He gained the speed he was looking for, and aside from that he gained the one GREAT ADVANTAGE of EXTENDED BRASS LIFE from his 40 degree shoulder that is experienced over the myriad of his chamberings. The 250 Savage and the 257 Roberts are both GREAT chamberings. A 25-06 they are not!GHD

Last I checked it was easier to find "Bob" brass or loaded ammo than 250Sav brass or loaded ammo.

that would tip my decision if I were pondering the same question.

there's a damned good reason why the most exotic Rifle chambering in my personal gun safe is a 6.5x55.

and that my only (current) NON-military rifle chamberings are 7mmRemMag and 30-30win

But I am shopping for another 338Win...

AD

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
IMO the .257 Roberts is not a true short action round.

It's best where long bullets are not forced deeply to rob case capacity.

The Mauser in .257 Roberts is a great idea.

Two great deer cartriges. In distance and energy the .257 is really a step up but often is not really necessary. This I believe to be true because there is a substantial jump between in what is needed between mule deer and elk in the lower 48.But than we do have some magic 25-35s. roger

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
This thread has been interesting for me also! And to see someone questioning Mr. P.O. Ackley's intelligence was quite surprising. Albeit the original question was the .250-3000 or the .257 Roberts superiority, the thread took a different turn. I believe that if all of us could spend time tonight with Mr. Ackley he would tell us all that one of his most proud production moments was the day he tried his "Ackley Improvement" on the 257 Roberts case. He gained the speed he was looking for, and aside from that he gained the one GREAT ADVANTAGE of EXTENDED BRASS LIFE from his 40 degree shoulder that is experienced over the myriad of his chamberings. The 250 Savage and the 257 Roberts are both GREAT chamberings. A 25-06 they are not!GHD

AMEN, Charlie

Stepchild

quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
This thread has been interesting for me also! And to see someone questioning Mr. P.O. Ackley's intelligence was quite surprising. Albeit the original question was the .250-3000 or the .257 Roberts superiority, the thread took a different turn. I believe that if all of us could spend time tonight with Mr. Ackley he would tell us all that one of his most proud production moments was the day he tried his "Ackley Improvement" on the 257 Roberts case. He gained the speed he was looking for, and aside from that he gained the one GREAT ADVANTAGE of EXTENDED BRASS LIFE from his 40 degree shoulder that is experienced over the myriad of his chamberings. The 250 Savage and the 257 Roberts are both GREAT chamberings. A 25-06 they are not!GHD

AMEN, Charlie

Stepchild

Yea, I too would be surprised, and find it inappropriate to read that someone was questioning Mr. Ackley's intelligence, since few of us actually knew him. It would be difficult to judge someone's intelligence not knowing him, and so what if he was dumb or not. What difference does it make? My point is that the word intelligence is nowhere mentioned in my initial comment. That's your word, not mine.

I don't see what it is all about with this "proud moment" business. Practically anyone who handloads knows that if you add more powder, and pressure, you are gonna pop the bullet out the barrel faster. Not hard to figure that one out.

Granted, the longevity of the brass is something I don't know about. I'm having difficulty these days shooting enough to where it's a relevant issue anyway.

Of course the 250 & 257 are not the 25-06, just like the 25-06 ain't a 257 Weatherby. So ----?

All I did was express my opinion, and which included my estimation of Mr. Ackley's utilization of his time. But it was his time.

As for my time, I'm just not willing to mess with any of the so-called "Ackley Improvments", because I value properly feeding cartridges over some slight ballistic improvment or case longevity. They manufacture those magazine boxes and feed rails narrower at the front compared to the back for a reason.

I don't think groundhog devastation meant any criticism. He just expressed his view point on the advantages of the 'Ackley Improvement'. Interesting to me as I too am wondering what it's all about!
I could do a similar thing to my planned quarter bore Lee Enfield and stick with the 303 case as a parent. But, I think I would rather use the standard Roberts case and make whatever mods are necessary to the action to handle it. I am just not keen on the idea of fireforming and I want the largest case capacity to get the performance I require at standard Lee Enfield pressure ratings. The 25-303 has the same ballistics as the 250 and an 'Ackley Improved' 303 would come close to the Roberts.

P.O. Ackley graduated with Honors from Syracuse University in Mechanical Engineering, Magna Cum Laude IIRC.... He may have been class Valedictorian too.

Don

I have bounced back and fourth between the 250 Sav. and the 257 Roberts for years but finally decided the reason for me to have a 25 cal. was for a "light recoiling rifle" that was a joy to shoot and the ladies and kids could enjoy and since I saw my dad cleanly kill about 50 or so elk with one and I have shot several myself with the little 250 Savage, I have adopeted that caliber as my go anywhere rifle. I always have a couple of them around.

The .257 Robts is a great little round, and I have shot a lot of Javalina and deer with it, but it needs to be in a long 06 length magazine so one may as well go with the 25-06 which is the ultimate 25 caliber for big game IMO...

Whatever you decide won't be a mistake however as all are good rounds.