Got a relative that hunts with a 6.5 swede and he has shot Remington factory 140 grain and Winchester super x factory 140 grain and claims he is getting no expansion on the deer he has shot. bullet hole in is the same out one small hole. Any ideas? He loves the gun a converted swede and is happy with the accuracy just not the bullet results. I will be useing my swede this year and am almost hesitant after talking to him. I will be shooting Hornady 140 grain bullets handloaded with 4064 at 2400 fps according to the Hornady guide using 35.1 grains of powder. Any suggestions why his factory ammo is not expanding? I hope I have better luck with my handloads.

Sounds like your relative is guessing in the absence of a recovered projectile. He might be getting more expansion than he thinks.

That 2400 fps load sounds a bit mild. I would have thought up around 2800 fps would be more like it for the Swede. I've tried the 139 grain Sierra SPBT in mine on hogs, and found it a little tough for most hogs. I've shifted to the 120 grain Sierra Pro Hunter now and find it very effective. Immediate expansion is evident by the purply, cratered entry wound, and exit holes are large and bloodshot. Sectioning the two bullets I've found the 139 grainer has a tapered jacket, the 120 grainer not so.

I use the 140 grain Hornady spire point in my 6.5 Swede pushed to 2450 fps and get excellent expansion, over 1 inch esit holes on deer and feral hogs. My rifle is a sporterized Swede also and this load works just fine. I wouldn't try to push the 140 past 2600 fps in my old rifle and don't see any need to. I also had poor expansion with Hanson factory ammo when I first got the rifle but the handloads cured that problem.

Shot my first deer with a sporterized M38 with PMC factory 139 grain PSP. The deer was walking straight away from me and as soon as he gave me the slightest angle, I shot. The bullet entered behind the last rib and was recovered in the opposite shoulder. The bullet had a nice classic mushroom after approximately 24" of penetration. I would post a picture of the bullet but don't really know how. I can email it to someone if someone wants to post it.

I agree Rick no need to push them. That is why I settled on the load I did. Glad to hear that 2400 or a bit over works well. According to my relative the holes going out look the same as going in that would indicate no expansion to me also. This guy has shot a lot of deer with different calibers so I am not doubting him.

I agree that the appearance of an exit hole doewn't tell you the state of the expansion of the bullet. If it kills the deer and he's otherwise happy with it - let it ride.

Jaywalker

Think about it, Your relative had a DEAD dear to check for expansion. Bullets occaisionaly fail. Excellent dear caliber, though you might want to try 120-130 gr. bullets especially if you are loading them on the mild side.

Geronimo

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
Sounds like your relative is guessing in the absence of a recovered projectile. He might be getting more expansion than he thinks.

Good post here.

It is possible that the bullet expands inside the lung area and is breaking apart. If the base exited it may look like no expansion occured. What do the lungs etc.. look like? If there is only a single 6.5mm hole through the lungs or other internal organs then something is definately wrong. If that is the case I'd try a lighter bullet or a bullet like the ballistic tip that expands quicker. You could also add some velocity to the load.

quote:

Originally posted by elkhunter:
It is possible that the bullet expands inside the lung area and is breaking apart. If the base exited it may look like no expansion occured. What do the lungs etc.. look like? If there is only a single 6.5mm hole through the lungs or other internal organs then something is definately wrong. If that is the case I'd try a lighter bullet or a bullet like the ballistic tip that expands quicker. You could also add some velocity to the load.

Guys we are talking Factory loads here. I am shooting the reloads and have not killed any thing with them yet this is the first year. He just came back from out west with a mule deer hunt and just got done processing the deer so he seen what the bullets did. WISH I could tell you more but I cannot. Unfortunately Most factory loads for him are 140 grain I did not see any 120 or 129 listed if you know of a factory load that is lighter let me know what brand.

Cabelas has a 120gr nosler ballistic tip loaded by Norma. It's expensive. I would seriously consider handloads.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link....uct&_requestid=33797

Forgot to add he told me he could see no shock value either clean holes in and out with no meat at all being bloodshot which would mean some shock value to the bullet.

The Hanson loads I used were slow and I shot a doe Mule deer three times thru the chest at 250 yards before she decided to lay down. Clean holes all the way thru. I thought I was missing till I looked her over.

My father's been hunting with a 6.5 swede for about 20 years now and has toppled 3-4 dozen deer (some of them 225 lbs +), nearly all with the 140 PSPCL @ 2450-2500 fps. Usually they exit, though occasionally they don't. Not ONE deer has made it more than 10 yards after being hit, and nearly all of them dropped at the shot. No bloodshot meat, and no "shock value" (I guess), but very dead deer and no tracking.

I've been using a 6.5x57 with the same load and have had identical results.

Speaking of shock value, just yesterday I dropped a 210 lbs 16" (inside spread) whitetail (rough score in the 130s) dead in his tracks with my 8x57. The load? 29 gr. IMR4198 and and a Hornady 150 SP. Not even 30-30 numbers and he dropped at the shot, no steps (unless you count his knees buckling).

Why people think they need zippy muzzle velocities and bloodshot meat to quickly drop/kill game continues to puzzle me...

9.3---just a curious but where did you hit that 210 lb buck at?

Thanks

Mark D

MMMMMM, I just killed two deer (yesterday) with a .260 Remington, nearly a clone to the 6.5x55mm. BOTH deer went down in place, with no movement or jumping around. Both had relatively small exit holes, but still at least twice the original 6.5mm diameter. All it takes is good shot placement and good bullets. You DO NOT want to destroy your target, not when you are hunting for meat, and I assume you are hunting to put venison on the table.
LLS
Mannlicher Collector

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:
9.3---just a curious but where did you hit that 210 lb buck at?

Thanks

Mark D

Broadside shot in right shoulder.

I agree you do not want to waste any meat. But I have shot deer with a 30/30/ 308/ and 30-06. 45/70 and all give you some bloodshot meat which to me equals shock. Last year I shot two deer with a 308 using cast loads in a Encore pistol under 30/30 Vel and they even gave me some blood shot meat around the path of the bullet. My Relative told me that he trimmed right up to the path of the bullet with no waste. Now that is good meat wise but bad if you got to do a lot of looking to find the deer. I know that is part of the game too but still it just sounded to me he was not getting the best effect that he could out of the factory loads.

I have taken 4 deer with handloaded 140 grain Corelokts... Each one the deer ran 40 yds or so, and had both an entrance and exit wound about the same size in each case....

so does that mean the bullet expanded or not?

All I know, is whether it expanded or not, it did the job I needed it to do... dead deer....each time...

Gidday Seafire,

As per usual you got it right, deer on the deck. What else matters.


I don't know about you but I'm hunting for me and not to be an advertisement for bullet, powder or rifle companies.

If it puts meat in my belly who am I to complain.

Am I being pedantic but please tell me what else matters but results.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

jh45gun:

quote:

But I have shot deer with a 30/30/ 308/ and 30-06. 45/70 and all give you some bloodshot meat which to me equals shock...but still it just sounded to me he was not getting the best effect that he could out of the factory loads.

I think bloodshot meat is more related to velocity than to bullet expansion. (I think, since I haven't shot a deer with really low-velocity loads...) It does seem odd that he isn't getting any/much. The old-timers used to talk about "eating the bullet hole," but that was sub-2000 fps bullets. Maybe these bullets aren't traveling even the 2450 fps the manufacturers say they are.

Even if bullet expansion were the key to bloodshot meat, and it might be, a low-velocity 140g 6.5 bullet would likely penetrate two or three deer lengthwise before it stopped, unless it hit solid bone - then maybe only a deer-and-a-half lengthwise. It's a known penetrating round, is what I'm saying, and that's always been the basis of its killing power.

Still, deer are harder to find than they are to kill, and poachers do it all the time with a 22 Magnum, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Jaywalker

I shoot the 6.5X55 a lot. I own three and my youngest son also shoots one. The 140 grain Hornady over 46.5 grains of RL-22 is the combo for his short sporterized M38 Husky. He took a nice 15" 8pt whitetail last year at 125 yards. Complete pass through. Nice 6.5 size hole on entry, 3/4 inch exit. Damage inside was extreme. Dropped in it's tracks.

I shoot the same load in my two M96 military rifles but don't hunt with them. My hunting rifle is a custom on a 1903 Mauser action. This one is loaded pretty hefty and the same 140 grain Hornady. Took a nice 15" whitetail last year at 326 yards. Entered the right shoulder, shattered the spin, lodged under the skin on the off shoulder. I recovered the bullet and weighed it. The expanded bullet was a hefty 131 grains and intact. Deer dropped in it's tracks.

I shoot a 260 with the 160 Hornady RN at 2601 fps just because I like to. Elmer Keith hole in and Elmer keith hole out with silver dollar hole in heart/lungs on behind shoulder shot. Dead in a few steps due to loss of BP to the brain. What more could one want? If you break bone going in, you will see heart lungs have much more damage due to the organic shrapnal in front of the bullet but dead is still dead.

Firearm: 6.5x55 CZ550 FS w/ Leupold Vari X III 1.5-5x20

Load: 140gr Hornady SP, 46.5gr Re22, Lapua Brass, Fed 210 primers. Very accurate load in referenced firearm.

Hunting Results: 12 Nov, at ~0800 MST (Northwestern Nebraska) two "does" came out on a game trail approx. 35 yds away from me. The lead doe saw me and froze/flagged. I remained motionless and she must have decided I was a large stump and proceeded to walk.

I brough the rifle to bear and aimed at the second deer's neck, pressed the trigger, dropping it DRT. The lead doe went about 10 yards, stopped and looked back. The neck was not at a good angle, so I put one through her ribs at a quartering shot. She ran about 50 yards and fell. Elapsed time from first shot to second, about 4 seconds.

The second deer (1st shot) turned out to be a button buck. The bullet hit vertebrae, virtually exploded it, leaving an extremely large exit wound.

The lead deer (2nd shot) was caught in the rear ribs on her right side. Bullet transversed diagonally and exited just rear of the "elbow", breaking 4 ribs exiting with ~ 1.5" exit hole. Lungs and esophagus were wrecked. I had seeds of whatever she was eating all over the place from her esophagus. Very little bloodshot meat noticed.

Yep, I killed Bambi and his mother.

I was impressed by the performance of the load. Those 140gr Hornadys at moderate speed worked exactly as they should, who could ask for more?

Try loading a Barnes 120gr TSX and you will get good expansion and hydraulic shock that should satisfy your needs.

if he can get some handloaded 140 gr. Sierra GameKings, they will surely expand on deer sized game, from my experience

I do lots of shooting and hunting with various 6.5mms, and any of the standard commercial 140 grain projectiles other than Remington's at 2400 or more fps will work beautifully on deer-sized game. Rem 140s are not consistent in performance; some lots are tough; some lots are fairly soft. ANd some of their factory ammo is rather anemic.

In a custom Encore with a 26" barrel, I am loading the 140 grain Sierra BTSP GK at 2812 fps (47 grains Re-22), and while this load is faster than most Swede loads I shoot, it does extremely well as this bullet is perhaps the toughest of the non-premium 140s.

The Swede is one of my favorite calibers, and I've long lost count of the one-shot kills guns chambered for it have acounted for, and that includes a large number of tenacious south Texas hogs. ANd most of those kills have come with plain-Jane 140 grain projectiles at rather pedestrian speeds...