This is a nice rifle with nice wood. However the caliber impression on the barrel has me baffled. So, altered or a rare factory overstamp?

3 stamped over 2.

I'll venture a guess that some previous owner had it rechambered from 222 to 223 and just gave the third digit a whack. It's hard for me to imagine that Sako or even H&R would let it out of the factory with such an indeterminate caliber marking.

Like I say, just a guess.

Thanks.
Sure is a nice over-stamp using an exact profile 3 which seems a bit odd for a post factory deal. Most all I've seen were tilted or off-center, some way off. Guess I got to go with non-factory.

quote:

Originally posted by bpesteve:
I'll venture a guess that some previous owner had it rechambered from 222 to 223 and just gave the third digit a whack. It's hard for me to imagine that Sako or even H&R would let it out of the factory with such an indeterminate caliber marking.

Like I say, just a guess.

Spot on here.....

I'd bid on it but it's beyond my pocketbook already.....nice actions for sure.

Sako made 1,000 of these for H&R, all in .222 -- none in .223. They are almost identical to the contemporaneous Sako Vixen with its 23.6" barrel, but have a few unique features: Round top receiver (no Sako dovetails), D&T for barrel sights, but came without sights, and D&T with two holes on the RH side of the rear receiver ring apparently for a receiver sight. They were marked exclusively with H&R markings with "Sako" nowhere on them except for a "Made in Finland" below the wood line on the action.

This rifle is not to be confused with the other H&R "Ultra Wildcat" which was barreled and stocked by H&R on Sako actions (some from the remaining inventory of the O'brien Rifle Company). This version had a 20" pencil barrel and was available in .222, .223, .17 Rem, and .17-223.

And I am the current high bidder. A little more than I wanted to spend, but hopefully I will be successful. I am not really concerned with whether it has been rechambered, as I am looking for a nice shooter.

Heed what stonecreek said...He is spot on.
Also the ultra had a wundhammer swell in the grip. Gun felt pretty good but the stock was a disaster by design IMO, but the workmanship was decent.

Ah.......round top receiver. Model 322, not 317 which matches the seller description except for barrel length? Fjestad Blue Book is a bit vague for this model with regard to barrel length & dovetail.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Sako made 1,000 of these for H&R, all in .222 -- none in .223. They are almost identical to the contemporaneous Sako Vixen with its 23.6" barrel, but have a few unique features: Round top receiver (no Sako dovetails), D&T for barrel sights, but came without sights, and D&T with two holes on the RH side of the rear receiver ring apparently for a receiver sight. They were marked exclusively with H&R markings with "Sako" nowhere on them except for a "Made in Finland" below the wood line on the action.

This rifle is not to be confused with the other H&R "Ultra Wildcat" which was barreled and stocked by H&R on Sako actions (some from the remaining inventory of the O'brien Rifle Company). This version had a 20" pencil barrel and was available in .222, .223, .17 Rem, and .17-223.

quote:

Fjestad Blue Book is a bit vague for this model with regard to barrel length & dovetail.

The Fjestad Blue Book is a complete joke when it comes to Sakos and proprietary rifles on Sako actions. It is full of inaccuracies and the estimated prices are often way off of the actual market. One edition of the Fjestad Blue Book listed "Rymack" as the U.S. importer. After a long period of head scratching we figured out that "Rymack" was a corruption of "Riihimaki", the city in which Sakos are manufactured and also the name that is stamped on the original L46 Sako actions of the 1950's.

For what it's worth, I have an L46 with a 222 barrel rechambered to 223. It may be the most accurate rifle I've ever owned. The only drawback to it is the slow twist rifling, somewhere in the 13:1 to 14:1 range. It pretty well drills <60 grain bullets into tiny little groups. Heavier bullets don't fare very well. If the L461 bbls feature the same slow twist, you may have the same problem.

As Stone mentioned, many nice rifles were based on this fine action......my favorite.

BTW....the H&R Model 317, and 317P, had a round-top L461 action in 1975 and 1976. The last two years of the 317's production.

Kevin

If I win the auction, the rifle will be used with bullets of 60-grains and lighter, so the slow would not be an issue. Thank you guys for the information.

I hadn't seen that issue I guess. Pretty lame for a spellchecker to have missed that. Yes. Blue Book is lacking in many cases. I'm still scratching my head with regard to their description for a Model 22 Brno. The beginning of the description reads 'similar to 21, with full length stock. Disc'. Then below that it mentions that both models were available in 4 configurations.
Like any price guide, know the market. Due diligence required. I bought a Brno Model 21-22 at auction last year that BB'd for around $1,000 in 90% condition. I got it for a bit under $1600.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

The Fjestad Blue Book is a complete joke when it comes to Sakos and proprietary rifles on Sako actions. "Rymack" as the U.S. importer. After a long period of head scratching we figured out that "Rymack" was a corruption of "Riihimaki", the city in which Sakos are manufactured and also the name that is stamped on the original L46 Sako actions of the 1950's.

Thanks for the input Kevin. Can you recommend a more accurate book for Sako's? Got to be something better than BB. Pricing not needed. Most pricing guides are outdated by press time anyway, not just for guns.

Hook & Boomer: Always good to hear others paying attention to twist rates.

Any comments on the L-461 welcome here.

I won the auction and the gun has the round top action. If has a Leupold 2x7 scope on it now that will probably be replaced with something with a bit more magnification.

Good for you. Looks really clean. Decent wood.

Good deal, glad you got it.
Now then, any chance you'd post some pictures?

Thanks, and do enjoy. I sure have my Sako L461.

Gonna screw your mind up though. I bought it new at Weisbaden gun club summer '72.

Paid: $105 for it in .222mag, and $165 for a 7mmag Finnbear with beautiful wood.

Now then sir, change crying towels, yours is soaked. HA!

George

quote:

Gonna screw your mind up though. I bought it new at Weisbaden gun club summer '72.

Paid: $105 for it in .222mag, and $165 for a 7mmag Finnbear with beautiful wood.

Run that through the inflation calculator at http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ and you'll find those prices are equal to $625 and $983 today. Still not bad prices for new Sakos, though. The going price in the U.S. was probably 25% or so higher than through the club in Germany.

Received the rifle today and will be taking it out to shoot on Saturday. I can hardly wait.

I have an Ultra Wildcat in .222, round top L461 action with a 23.6" standard weight barrel. This one likes light bullets my best groups have been with 40 grainers. Good luck, that's a neat rifle.

Very nice rifle! I have been eyeing an L461 mannlicher in .222...they are wanting $1200 and I haven’t bit yet. Maybe I will next time I see it...

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Round top receiver (no Sako dovetails)

I wouldn't miss the sako dovetails. Especially on a custom build.

Thanks for the heads up on the 40-grain bullets. I was planning to start with 50-grain Hornady SX bullets, but if they don't shoot satisfactorily, I ill try going down in weight.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Round top receiver (no Sako dovetails)

I wouldn't miss the sako dovetails. Especially on a custom build.

The Sako Tapered Dovetail is about the best mounting system ever devised for a rifle. Lots of people who don't understand them therefore don't like them -- and there are a couple of mounts for them that are genuine trash. But with the original Sako ringmounts or Leupold ringmounts the dovetails represent one of the cleanest and strongest ways to meld a scope with an action.

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:
Thanks for the heads up on the 40-grain bullets. I was planning to start with 50-grain Hornady SX bullets, but if they don't shoot satisfactorily, I ill try going down in weight.

Congratulations on your purchase. If the rechambering was done properly you should have an excellent shooter. The barrel is a genuine Sako barrel, which is one of the best. I suspect that you can find loads with a range of bullet weights between 40 and 60 grains that will do quite well in your new rifle.

That is a lovely rifle. The stock has been nicely refinished; the cheekpiece has been rounded, which looks much nicer than the original squared off look. That finish will certainly stand up to a lot of field use.

Very nice rifle. I converted an old bench rest rifle to .223. Much cheaper to shoot, even with reloading. Also, no more neck turning, but that is off target, 'er topic. Anyways, congratulations on the very nice rifle.

quote:

That is a lovely rifle. The stock has been nicely refinished; the cheekpiece has been rounded, which looks much nicer than the original squared off look.

I think you're mistaken, Lawndart. I've owned one of these and seen a couple of others of the 999 units that Sako built for H&R. The stock finish of the one in the Gunbroker auction appears identical to the others I've seen and completely factory. I have no dog in this fight, but I wouldn't want the buyer to get the impression that he had been sold a refinished rifle. Rechambered, yes; but not refinished.

For what its worth this one looks exactly like the one I have in 222, same stock same finish.

From what I have been told by an authority on the H&R rifles, everything is original except for the chamber having been opened from .222 to .223.

The rifle shoots the cheap Federal American Eagle into about 1-1/4 inches, and the Fioochi into about 1-1/2-inch. It does not shoot the Remington ball ammo worth beans. I loaded some ammo with 40-grain V-Max and 50-grain SX bullets this weekend, and hope to get out to try them this week.

Boomer:

IF you haven't, run a tight patch slowly down that barrel and feel for any loose spots.
The one I got as mentioned above. Had four places the patch/bullets completely turned loose of the bore. I never discovered that until I got home, I shipped it unfired, unchecked right after I got it.

Amazing accuracy, less than dime size groups til it died at around 6000 shots of: 55gr w/25.0gr 4895. Never had a chrono til later. Am guessing just about 2900-3000fps, don't know for sure on that.

I rebarreled it and went with .223 because of the brass issue for the .222 mags. Two of us came up with 19 various bullets from 35-55gr. I loaded 5 of each for initial test firing.
Orange tip Nostlers: 1 1/2" 40gr
V'max 35 and 40's 10 shots several times=.230"
C/L 55gr .420", this is what I use for P/dogs. When I'm in practice and a decently calm day any p/dogs less than 500yds is just about a cinch shot. IF they're standing up at 400yds, with a 2" high/100yd zero. I hold: a height high, and if 10mph: a height upwind and they're almost never missed. I have a 6.5-20x glass on it. Just right out here on the short grass plains until it gets hot, then it has to be turned down to cut the mirage.

The 35gr scatter all over the hillside when fired at 200yds or more. At 100yds, one hole all day long and tiny too.

I shoot only the two wts now. 40gr V'max when I can't have any chance of richochets, and 55's when wide open shots.
23gr AA2200 is a real good load too.

Good luck, glad you got it, they're fine, beautiful rifles.

George

Thanks, George.

The bore does get a bit tighter towards the end. Thanks you for the tips for loads. I think the gun will shoot if I find the right load.

Dave

Sako days of glory were the L Series no doubt about that. I love the L-46 and the L-461..My 6x45 Custom is on the H&R or one of the round top L-461s...Some of the most beautiful bolt action pistols I have ever seen were built by the late and great Tony Barnes of Twin Falls on thos fine actions..A A-series followed and was a decent Sako, when the A-Series was discontinuek the SAkO turned to junk..what a shame.

The pictures shows to be an original 222 H&R but with the barrel tuned back a thread and rechambered to a 223, if the barrel wasn't turn back a thread you will have a 2 dimensional 223 case..I would want a picture of a fired case...although that can be fixed at any time...Not an unusual rechamber if done right, and maybe a better option???..Its a real nice gun and looks almost new..but should be priced as a re-chamber, so I would negociate that..