OK, I am new here and a little wabblie and really don't know if I am doing this right. Here is the deal. I have been watching for several weeks now and I am enjoying what I read and the help that everyone seems to be so very free with and also knowledgeable. After a bankruptcy in 1996 I am left with only one rifle which I used to reload for in the late '80s and early 90's. It is a .250 Savage chamber in a Remington Classic 700 made in 1984
24 inch barrel, 1-10 twist. I had worked up loads for a number of years and had a lot of data that was lost in Hurricane Andrew in 1992. I still have loaded ammo that I have not shot with the data included, but ALL THE WORK I HAD DONE PRIOR TO THE STORM HAS BEEN LOST.
I wish to start again more or less from scrach, but not quite as I still have marked loads that I haven't shot. This is going to be a slow process and I don't expect to get it done in a day, but I would really like to hear from the shooters out there that still shoot and love the wonderful little .250.
I will try and post every night or so with data and info and I would greatly appreciate any and all views. I might not agree with you, but hell that is what makes horse races.
I have the rifle and plan to do certain things with it a little at a time as I am strapped for funds.
Here are the specs on the rifle and scope.
Remington Model 700 Classic in .250 Savage with 24 inch barrel and 1-10 twist.
Scope: Leupold Vari-X III 2.5 x 8.0 with 36 or maybe 38 obj.
Leupold two piece mounts.
Original trigger replaced with a Timney using the original safety. It is currently set at a very light 2 ounce pull. I know that is light and I entend to change that as soon as they sent the instructions how to do it as everything has "Gone With The Wind"
Over time I wish to improve the "Package" and I will list something with each new post in the order I plan to do so. THE RIFLE AS IT STANDS NOW IS VERY ACCURATE AND I HAVE SHOT 10 SHOT STRINGS UNDER 1 MOA. nO SHIT. I still have a Ohler Cron and was gettingt 3200 fps with 100 grain bullets with no great pressure signs and only slightly flatten priners. I was using the CCI BR2 and I could still see the imprint of the br on the primer so pressure was OK.
I plan to load only two or three bullets. My present thoughts are
Barnse
Speer Grand Slam
In the past the rifle seemed to dislike boat tail bullets with the except of Sierra 90 gr HPBT which shot very well.
1. I Thought I would run the Tubb bore polishing bullets thru the rifle.

Let's start here

Pressure is not OK. You can't drive 100 grain bullets from the .250 Savage case at over 3200 fps at safe pressures.

quote:

Originally posted by Leftoverdj:
Pressure is not OK. You can't drive 100 grain bullets from the .250 Savage case at over 3200 fps at safe pressures.

This seems to be a reasonable assessment

OK, I lied.
Here are the numbers
3157
3164
3095
3138 average

3187
3154
3149
3163 average
Now guys, the primers were not flatten excessively. I could still see the the br imprint and the empty cases still chambered without any problems in the rifle.
Tell me what I should be looking for as I am a sponge when it comes to knowledge.
REMEMBER this is a very strong bolt action rifle and not a model 99. But as I said tell where I am going wrong.
Jack

If someone will tell me how to post a pic I will include a scan of the cases I am using.
Damn I hate being an idoit with this computer crap. HELP HELP HELP

reload the brass that you used to fire those rounds.....but just make note of how easy the primers are to seat.

I suspect that the primer pockets have opened to the point that the new primers do not press fit into them.

I loaded some 30-06 and posted results here about velocity and 200 grain bullets and got this reply from M98 in aussieland. He was right...while there was no apparant signs of pressure when firing the reloading was obvious that the case had opened the primer pockets. This is a clear sign of excess pressure.

You're pushing 25-06 performance with the much smaller case. You might be all right but the likelyhood is that you're way above the charts with this load.

Wing: I have the same model rifle, which I snagged in `87, as I really wanted a nice 250 Savage. Great cartridge, excellent accuracy in my 700.
Perusing the load books show that max pressures are kept low (likely for the Sav 99), and I liked what I saw in the Lyman 47th manual...37.0gr of 4320 under a 100gr for 3115fps.
My own loads using a 100gr Nos BT yielded 37.0gr / 3158avg, 37.5gr 3178 avg. Under a 100gr Nos Solid Base, 37.0gr yielded 3140fps.

Switching to WW760, 40.0gr under a 100 Nos BT goes 3035fps, still a potent load.

Same bullet, 35.5gr of 4064 went 3032fps avg...most of my loads are developed in warm/hot weather, but I do have a note the 4064 load at 35 deg slowed to 2880fps!!

For a Speer 120, 39.0gr of 760 yielded 2826fps avg, which is great for the little old 250 Sav cartridge.
Low velocities indicated RL19 and 4350 were too slow for this case.
Other notes state W-W cases have a higher capacity than R-P, but I did not note how much.
Most loads used Rem 9-1/2 primers, some were WLR.
I seem to recall Nosler also had some strong loads listed in their book.
An over-achieving cartridge in my book...I like it!

My thanks to all for their input on the velocity and pressure info. I was using SteelHead cases which I bought a number of in the early '80's. They were very expensive and also because of their design the case capicity was a good bit smaller. I just sold a group on Ebay and only have a very few left. I do not plan to use these for loading again. The brass I will be using will be WW and Rem.
HOWEVER I am not loading now and this is getting a little off base from what I had hoped to start SO PLEASE GO BACK TO MY original post and Please give me your comments about item # 1 on the list. THE ORIGINAL IDEA for this post was to get opinions about making the rifle more accurate and I had hoped to compile some type of log or list as to what could be done in an order of importance or ease.
ITEM 1: The Tubb's final finish bore polishing system.
I will add

item 2 Now as well: The Tubb's firing pin Speed System which is a super light firing pin and spring which is said to cut lock time by as much as 30-40% even on a Rem which is already fairly quick.
PLEASE WORK WITH ME ON THIS SO I/WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WE CAN POST HERE FOR NEW PEOPLE that want to make their rifle more accurate.
COST IS A LARGE FACTOR WITH ME SO PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WELL.
Also remember that this is primaryily A HUNTING RIFLE
Thanks for all the quick replies. It give me something to think about other than all my problems.
Jack
"Nullum Gratuitum Prandium"
"La Vida no Vale Nada sin El Honor"

Given the kind of accuracy you've already achieved in what is a hunting rifle, why would you want to push any abrasives down that barrel? I'd be looking to sort out that light trigger and then start developing loads.
I really admire the 250Savage as a walking varminter cum light-medium game rifle and almost had one built, but instead have the Australian version .... a 303/25.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by winggunner:
Here are the specs on the rifle and scope.
Remington Model 700 Classic in .250 Savage with 24 inch barrel and 1-10 twist.
Scope: Leupold Vari-X III 2.5 x 8.0 with 36 or maybe 38 obj.
Leupold two piece mounts.
Original trigger replaced with a Timney using the original safety. It is currently set at a very light 2 ounce pull.

Winggunner, sounds like a nice rifle you have there. I'm sorry I won't be able to help you with your loads, others are much better qualified there. But I thought I'd throw in the following:

1) Your scope will be a 2.5-8x36.

2) It is unlikely you can have a Timney trigger safely set at 2oz. I don't even know if you can adjust it down as far as that, but I'm pretty sure it won't hold the sear if you close the bolt hard, or push down hard on the bolt handle when you close it. If it is truely a Timney you have in there, and if it is truely set at 2oz, then be careful, you might find the rifle going off when you least expect it to (e.g. when taking off the safety). This should be fixed before you head out with the rifle again.

Good luck with rediscovering your rifle, reloading and shooting.

- mike

P.S. Just occurred to me, a friend has done some load work with the .250 Savage. Maybe the writeup he did might be of interest to you?? Make sure you work up from below, though!

You'll have to scroll down a bit on this page to get to the .250 Sav info...

Mike,
Thanks for the reply. RE: the trigger, I am going from memory and at 60 is sometimes fails me. It might not be 2 onces, but that number stuck in my head. I do knosw that it is very light and crisp. I have tested it for safty by slaming it down on its recoil pad and the tigger did not slip. I also tryed it from the muzzle by whacking the muzzle with a large rubber mallet and again the rifle did fire. I am going to have to find a scale and truly check it out. I do know that is absolutely no creep.
Jack

re: THE mallet test. It should DID NOT FIRE

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Con:
Given the kind of accuracy you've already achieved in what is a hunting rifle, why would you want to push any abrasives down that barrel? I'd be looking to sort out that light trigger and then start developing loads.
I really admire the 250Savage as a walking varminter cum light-medium game rifle and almost had one built, but instead have the Australian version .... a 303/25.
Cheers...
Con[/QUOTE

Thanks for the info. I spoke with Mr. Tubb and he suggest that I forgo the courser grit and only use the finer grit in the rifle which is what I plan to do.
Jack

I am a huge 250-3000 fan, and have owned a number of rifles in this caliber, including multiple 700 classics.

If you insist on hot-rodding this little round, use re-formed 22-250 brass as is it designed for 53,000 CUP where as the 250 brass is not NECESSARILY designed for such pressures.

Moreover, the 250-3000 with a 100 Nosler PT or X-bullet @ 2900-2950 fps is perfectly adequate to take deer out to 250-300 yds.

If you really want 3100 fps, try the Barnes 90 XBT...

Don't forget the golden rule: VELOCITY IS A PRESSURE SIGN. It only takes ONE bad case...

9.3x62
Thanks for this info. I had also thought to form .243 brass as us is loads cheaper than .250. Is it also stronger? If not, I can acquire .22-250 cheaper as well.
RE: the Nosler PT: I tryed them in 100 gr., but I could not get them to open up on game. I shot a wild hog at 120 yards and it just punched right throught him. He did however drop dead in his tracks. In fact he was running as I had first tried a head shot and went low and blew his lower jaw off and he was leaving the country fast. We were hunting on a cattle ranch and my host and friend kept saying "shoot him bnefore he gets in amongst the stock" So it was a running shot that I could never do again in 100 years. He flipped and came to a skidding stop. When we examined him we could not find the entry and exit holes and didn't until we cut him open. It took out his heart. I had never thought that a heart shot was a drop in place type shot and maybe he was also feeling the effects from the lost jaw. Don't know, but he didn't go any further either.
I plan to use Barnes bullets when I reload again.
Thanks again
RJL
"La vida no valle nada sin El Honor"

quote:

Originally posted by Leftoverdj:
Pressure is not OK. You can't drive 100 grain bullets from the .250 Savage case at over 3200 fps at safe pressures.

With H 414 or W 760, a few load manuals say that you can....

I am just passing this on, not owning a 250 Savage, but it is on my 'Need to Get ONE of Those' list....

Cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by winggunner:
9.3x62
Thanks for this info. I had also thought to form .243 brass as us is loads cheaper than .250. Is it also stronger? If not, I can acquire .22-250 cheaper as well.
RE: the Nosler PT: I tryed them in 100 gr., but I could not get them to open up on game. I shot a wild hog at 120 yards and it just punched right throught him. He did however drop dead in his tracks. In fact he was running as I had first tried a head shot and went low and blew his lower jaw off and he was leaving the country fast. We were hunting on a cattle ranch and my host and friend kept saying "shoot him bnefore he gets in amongst the stock" So it was a running shot that I could never do again in 100 years. He flipped and came to a skidding stop. When we examined him we could not find the entry and exit holes and didn't until we cut him open. It took out his heart. I had never thought that a heart shot was a drop in place type shot and maybe he was also feeling the effects from the lost jaw. Don't know, but he didn't go any further either.
I plan to use Barnes bullets when I reload again.
Thanks again
RJL
"La vida no valle nada sin El Honor"

I have gone both routes with reforming brass for my .250. There is a lot less fuss with refroming .22-250. Just neck it up and fire form.

Just curious, you said that you have difficulty with the 100 grain partition not expanding. Based on what you reported with 1 hog it sounds like the performance was pretty good. The animal was dead in its tracks, and the bullet gave complete penetration. If you didn't recover the bullet, how do you know that it didn't expand?

quote:

With H 414 or W 760, a few load manuals say that you can....

Did they report pressure data? What are these load manuals and what is their copyright date?

Hodgdon's site has the following data for a 257 Roberts:

100 gr
45 gr H414
3098 fps (from a 26" barrel)
44,500 CUP

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/257rober.php

The same site reports the following data for a 25-06:

100 gr
54.3 gr. H4831
3172 fps (24" barrel)
51,400 CUP

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/25-06rem.php

Given that SAAMI spec pressure for a 250-3000 is 45,000 CUP, it is very hard to believe that 3200+fps is even CLOSE to safe pressures in a 250-3000, even with a 26" barrel...

I think the .250-3000 is another case of the .257 Roberts. I loaded for a Savage M99EG several years ago with 60 grain W-W hollow points and IMR-3031, and the load was "estimated" at 3500 fps. The M99 never showed a problem, nor did I encounter problems with my cases. The load was grossly destructive on varmints.
LLS

quote:

Originally posted by dougw1969:

quote:

Originally posted by winggunner:
9.3x62
Thanks for this info. I had also thought to form .243 brass as us is loads cheaper than .250. Is it also stronger? If not, I can acquire .22-250 cheaper as well.
RE: the Nosler PT: I tryed them in 100 gr., but I could not get them to open up on game. I shot a wild hog at 120 yards and it just punched right throught him. He did however drop dead in his tracks. In fact he was running as I had first tried a head shot and went low and blew his lower jaw off and he was leaving the country fast. We were hunting on a cattle ranch and my host and friend kept saying "shoot him bnefore he gets in amongst the stock" So it was a running shot that I could never do again in 100 years. He flipped and came to a skidding stop. When we examined him we could not find the entry and exit holes and didn't until we cut him open. It took out his heart. I had never thought that a heart shot was a drop in place type shot and maybe he was also feeling the effects from the lost jaw. Don't know, but he didn't go any further either.
I plan to use Barnes bullets when I reload again.
Thanks again
RJL
"La vida no valle nada sin El Honor"

I have gone both routes with reforming brass for my .250. There is a lot less fuss with refroming .22-250. Just neck it up and fire form.

Just curious, you said that you have difficulty with the 100 grain partition not expanding. Based on what you reported with 1 hog it sounds like the performance was pretty good. The animal was dead in its tracks, and the bullet gave complete penetration. If you didn't recover the bullet, how do you know that it didn't expand?

The entrance and exit holes were the same size. No blood at either point, although when we cut thru the chest cavity it was full of blood.
I am not an expert hunter, only an old one. I would have hoped for a much larger exit hole, but as you say stone dead is stone dead.
"La vida no vale nada sin El Honor"
Jacj

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3x62:

quote:

With H 414 or W 760, a few load manuals say that you can....

Did they report pressure data? What are these load manuals and what is their copyright date?

Hodgdon's site has the following data for a 257 Roberts:

100 gr
45 gr H414
3098 fps (from a 26" barrel)
44,500 CUP

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/257rober.php

The same site reports the following data for a 25-06:

100 gr
54.3 gr. H4831
3172 fps (24" barrel)
51,400 CUP

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/25-06rem.php

Given that SAAMI spec pressure for a 250-3000 is 45,000 CUP, it is very hard to believe that 3200+fps is even CLOSE to safe pressures in a 250-3000, even with a 26" barrel...

As I mentioned earlier all my notes and targets were lost to Hurricane Andrew. I did have one box with index cards showing the velosity I gave earler, but without the notes I don't know what the bullet was.
I still have quite a number of loaded bullets with info attached that I can still fire and clock. Some of the cases are on their third loading and still no sign of lose primer pockets.
I think that much of the SAAMI data is on the low end to cover their ass because there are so many OLD SAVAGE 99's and other still out there.
BUT ALL PLEASE BE ADVISED that I started low and worked up and I AM NOT JUST POURING POWDER in until I fill the case.
ALSO PLEASE BE AWARE THAT I HAD A LARGE STOCK OF SSTEEL HEAD CASES AND FROM THOSE CAME SOME OF THE HIGH VOL LOADS. but the accuracy sucked.

i shoot a savage "sierra" that i rebarreled to 250/3000. i don't own a chronograph so i don't know muzzle velocity;but i do know that with RL15 this little rifle shoots sub-minute groups at 200yds. it loves 75gr V-MAX and 100gr sierra sbt. i load 36gr with the 100's and 38.5gr with the 75's.

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3x62:

quote:

With H 414 or W 760, a few load manuals say that you can....

Did they report pressure data? What are these load manuals and what is their copyright date?

Hodgdon's site has the following data for a 257 Roberts:

100 gr
45 gr H414
3098 fps (from a 26" barrel)
44,500 CUP

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/257rober.php

The same site reports the following data for a 25-06:

100 gr
54.3 gr. H4831
3172 fps (24" barrel)
51,400 CUP

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/25-06rem.php

Given that SAAMI spec pressure for a 250-3000 is 45,000 CUP, it is very hard to believe that 3200+fps is even CLOSE to safe pressures in a 250-3000, even with a 26" barrel...

I lost all the manuals as well, but I do have a Ken Waters pet loads and I will quote as soon as I eat my warm dinner