I have a Daly mini Mauser LH action that has been patiently waiting in the safe for me to do something with it.

It'll mostly be a groundhog, coyote walking around rifle. .223 seems like the logical choice, maybe with a 1:8 twist to handle heavy bullets. I alsohave consider .222, 6x45, 6x47, and 6.5 tcu.

So should I go with the "boring" but practical .223 or something "sexier"?

6.5 Grendel/264 LBC.

Right now the triple duece seems like the best option.

.222 would be my pick. I don't see any reason to go bigger for a walking rifle.

sam,

What's the OAL limit of the magazine? action?

Ray,

It measures 2.300" between the rings and the magazine box is 2.285". Not sure if those are the numbers you need.

Sounds like it is a .223 bolt face. I would stick with either .222 or .223 unless for some reason you thought you would use it on deer. I don't think the 6mm versions buy you anything in that case size for small game except more expensive bullets. If you did plan on deer size game make sure the 6mm barrel has the twist to handle the heavier bullets. Problem is, you will run out of case capacity loaded to mag length. I've got a Sako L461 in 222 mag and with a little throat wear I can't touch the lands at mag length with 55gr bullets. That would be worse in a 6mm.

Yes it is for a .378 case head.

quote:

Originally posted by Ohiosam:
Ray,

It measures 2.300" between the rings and the magazine box is 2.285". Not sure if those are the numbers you need.

Yep, That'll do.

Boring, standard & effective = 223 Rem
Most interesting = 204 Ruger

300 blackout

I think the 204 is alot sexier. I have 222's, 22-250's, but the 204 gets the use. I'd probably go with an 11 twist to shoot 40 grainers too. I am thinking on a 20-222 right now myself.

God Bless, Louis

quote:

Originally posted by youngoutdoors:
I think the 204 is alot sexier. I have 222's, 22-250's, but the 204 gets the use. I'd probably go with an 11 twist to shoot 40 grainers too. I am thinking on a 20-222 right now myself.

God Bless, Louis

The 20/222 = 20 VarTarg Turbo. A great little round that a friend has chambered a Sako Vixen to while I went with the 20 VarTarg = 20/221 and have had the 35gn berger at 3700fps do wonderfully bad things to goats and lots and lots of rabbits.

Need more information. What do you currently have? Why do you think you need heavy bullets in .223? Coyotes/ground hogs dont need heavier. (In my books 55 grain the best--even on deer). Will you be shooting any cast bullets?

I really don't need anything bigger, just looking for options and opinions.

My other varmint rifles are .22-250, 223 wssm and 243. The reason I mentioned fast twist is I shoot some service rifle and load .223 with heavy bullets and if I go that route I want to be able to use that ammo too.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
Right now the triple duece seems like the best option.

If you're looking for something exotic that you can spend a lot of time talking about whether it's "sexy" or not, get the .204 or even the .222. I've never owned a .204, considering it a redundancy to what I already had, but I've owned a couple or three .222s. They are a great cartridge, capable and easy to load for but getting rarer all the time.
If you plan on shooting the rifle more than you plan on talking about how sexy it is, get a .223. Components are plentiful and cheap (relatively) and a person would have to be a much better shot than me to say the .222 is more accurate than the .223.
I've never gotten into the fast twist aspect nor the AI with my rifles but I have won a number of matches with a standard 1/12 twist rifle and Rem 52gr benchrest bullets as well as the 53gr SMK.
When I lived in WV, more than a few of the guys used the .223 to kill deer. They mostly used rem 788s and savage 340s. With a standard (at the time) 1/14 twist. Their bullets of choice was 55gr rem. But they were good hunters and I doubt that any of them had shot a deer further than 50 yards.

I've never owned a wildcat but I have been thinking about building a 6x45

Sam, you already have a 243, so there would be overlap, but I would heartily recommend the 6 X 45. I recently had one built on the AR platform, and to say I am amazed at the potential of this round would be an understatement...

The upper was slapped on my lower, and it took a grand total of seven rounds to get the rifle where I wanted it at 25 yards. A totally arbitrary load of 24 grains of Western Powder TAC, a CCI-400 and some of the 55-grain Nosler SHOTS produced a four shot "bughole" at 100 yards. I dropped the fourth shot, called it as such, and the five shots can still be easily covered with a dime. The barrel is an 18" 1 in 11 twist, what the AR crowd calls a "mid-length".

The bolt rifle platform wouldn't be so OAL limiting as for the AR, and with projectiles like the Nosler 85-grain Partition, the 100-grain Speer Grand Slam, and all the lighter .243" projectiles, the 6 X 45 has all the potential of everything from prairie dogs and ground hogs to head shots on feral pigs, and with judicious shot placement, even whitetails.

And fwiw, my LH Daly was turned into a black cherry stocked 20" barreled Mannlicher in .222; just a gorgeous build.

From what you have and what you need/want I think I would flip a coin on the .222/.223 and be done with it. Oh I would go slow twist for light bullets also.

.204 Ruger, .222 and .223 in that order or reverse the last two--a coin flip..

222

The 6x45 or 6x47 Rem are fun little guns, and are a little more effective on coyotes than the 223 if the angle of the shot is not perfect.

Sexy, you might want to look at an interesting new cartridge called 20 Extreme, a slightly shortened 222 case necked down to 20 cal. Almost 204 ruger performance with a smaller case and you'll be the only boy on your block with one of these. fs

I have had another thought: have you considered a 22 K Hornet? Out of a bolt action rifle the K is reasonably impressive, cases last much longer than the original Hornet, and accuracy is much improved. And lastly, this is another round you won't meet yourself at Wally World with, if you know what I mean.

I had considered a Hornet but thought that required some work to feed out of the magazine.

What a .223 lacks in sex appeal it gets the job "done" on lots of other levels.

A 223 makes the 222 absolutely redundant. I think you have to be at least 70 to own a 222 anymore anyways.

6.5 grendel seems like a good choice for a new barrel.

I like the idea of the 6x45 over the 223.

The 53/55gr 6mm bullets seem to have higher BC's in 6mm than .224 (as weird as that seems). The larger bore diameter also gives you slightly more velocity for the same bullet weight (expansion ratios and larger bore volume behind the bullet and all that stuff that the smart guys can explain).

The 204 will give you performance equal to or exceeding a 22-250. Plus much longer barrel life, less recoil, less muzzle blast because it burns approximately 10 grs. less powder. I've been PD shooting with the 204 since it first came out, about 8 or 9 years now. No way would I consider going back to a 22-250. My 204 adds about 75 yards to my 223AI, but the 223AI would be another choice. 223AI is a very good caliber, just not the equal of a 204 when shots go over 300 yards.

Thanks for all the insight. I had kind of blown off the .204 but am now seriously considering it.

I have no experience with the .204 Ruger, I wont buy one as it would be too close to duplication of what I have. The reason I believe I would like one is that I do like the .20 cal in air rifles better than either the .177 or .22's--to me the best of both worlds.

The .204 Ruger with a 1:8" twist 24" barrel will stabilize the Berger 50 grain HPBT Varmint Bullet and 55 grain HPBT bullet. In my Pac-Nor 1:8.5" twist the 50 grain Berger shoots .3" (10 shots @100 yards) at 3,295 fps average over 25.8 grains of Varget. In that same barrel, the 26 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade runs 4,110 fps and plunks into .25" groups (10 shots @ 100 yards). The 32 grain Nosler Lead Free duplicates the Varmint Grenade performance. The load for both is 25.2 grains of Rl-10x. If toying with a rebarrel, I would give some consideration to this combination. I use my .204 Ruger rifles for ground squirrels and the dang things are like lasers, even when I think I missed, there is usually a squirrel mess or pink goo where it had been.

The .204 Ruger has become my favorite chambering these days, although the .223 Remington isn't any slouch either. In fact, I'm building a AR in .204 Ruger just for fun.

The 204 Ruger in the mini Mauser is OK with the factory shells, but if you are wanting to load and seat the bullets out in the case the magazine size is a little short. I have loaded one at a time into the chamber and they are accurate. There is no problem using the 40 gr factory shells. I have some loaded and seated deep into the case to try soon. The twist 1/12 is my choice as it will group very tight little clusters. If you are wanting to shoot the 50 gr and up bullets in the 204 Ruger I would look for an action to allow the bullets to be seated out farther. I am not a fan of bullets seated half way into a case. I don't believe it would be safe to remove metal in the lower locking area to allow for a longer magazine box. I asked for the length of the Wiebe box and he didn't reply.

If you are making a rifle to carry around in the field a #2 Shilen 1/12 Twist with a reasonable scope will weigh under 8 lbs. Add a Harris pod and it will go over 8 lbs. I can miss just as well with a 11 or 12 lb rifle when walking around in the field.

I have owned these calibers and have a few commints:
17 Ack Bee Good, but range too short
17-222 First 17 in 1961 poor bullets and barrels back then
17 Mach IV Fine, but wanted more speed
17 Rem. It has everything, accurate, speed, my choice and still use one to 300 yds
22 Hornet Limited on range. 200 yds
218 Ack.Bee Very accurate Limited range
222 Rem Very accurate not quite what I wanted for field use
222 Rem Mag Not the speed I wanted
224 Weatherby I bought the first one we got in the store about 1966. I won some matches in the hunter class using this rifle.
Never owned the 22-250
220 Swift Had the speed and miss just as well at 400 yds and other calibers not as much noise

Currently trying the 20 calibers

20-223 case
204 Ruger The Ruger has everything I am looking for in a small caliber. Compare the write up on www.accurateshooting.com

I would NEVER EVER build a .223 on anything for any reason. You can buy them in a store anywhere in about every possible configuration.
To shoot heavy bullet in the .223 requires a silly ass fast twist.

The 6mm variants have a very wide variety of bullets if you pick the right twist. There are 55 grainers up to a few that weigh 100.
Just make sure the magazine is long enough for what you want to do with it.
Both the 6X45 and 6X47 were widely used for benchrest until knocked off by the 6 PPC.
The BR rifles used a 14" twist but that is too slow for bullet heavier than 75 grains.
I would pick a 12" twist and live with bullets between 55 and 90 grains. Due to the infinite supply of brass I would pick the 6X45 version though I don't own one. I have a 6x47 and love the economy & performance combination. The only issue is the parent brass has never been widely and cheaply available.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
I would NEVER EVER build a .223 on anything for any reason. You can buy them in a store anywhere in about every possible configuration.

Really, you have stores everywhere with LEFT HANDED bolt actions in .223?

I know Savage and Remington makes ones that are almost 9 pounds. CZ has one with that silly extended magazine, Tikka makes a nice one in stainless/composite. Browning Xbolt probably is the one that comes closest to what I want but still not there.

I'd really like it in a mannlicher, if there is a LH mannlicher stocked rifle in small calibers I'd love to hear about it.

BTW I have never seen any of these rifles in .223 at a store, only pictures online.

I did the boring .223 thing on my custom Mini Mauser. I wouldn't change a thing about it.



Terry

Terry
There is nothing boring about that rifle at all!

Someday I hope you'll be so bored with it you'll pack it up and send it to me......

My 204 has a 1 in 10 Shilen 26" bbl. It will shoot Sierra 39 gr. bullets at over 3700 fps. between 1/4" and 1/3", 5-shot groups at 100 yds. 5/8" at 200 yds and 1" or under 1" at 300 yds. It's a prairie rat hammer w/ Leupold 6-20X varmint Hunter Scope, Shilen trigger and laminated stock.

+1000 on the .204 Ruger!

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
I did the boring .223 thing on my custom Mini Mauser. I wouldn't change a thing about it.

Sweeet!